Alt ST2. Any big boy bike bargains?

ROCebike

Member
Hi guys. So now I'm looking for my first ebike. Having read and binge watched multiple reviews, I could use some community guidance. Unlike Court, I'm 6'2" and 230 lbs. So it's hard to get a feel for the specs listed and what to avoid. Here's what I'd like:
- 70% Street, 30% Hardpack former trolley trails
- No commuting. But want to ride for fun, health, and maybe lose 30 lbs.
- Need less aggressive to upright position due to neck issue. Not cruiser style.
- 2 - 4 hour rides perhaps 4 days per week ( semi retired). Maybe 30 mile average rides.
- Prefer speed pedelecs, but need some good torque.
- Kicker is I live on a hill (sound familiar?), 14 % rise for about half mile.

So what motor and battery should I spec? Torque sensor or cadence?
Willing to upgrade components for comfort e.g. Thudbuster, etc
Quality parts and build, I hate buyers remorse.

Seems a Stromer ST2 fits the bill, but my budget is up to $4000. Cross Current looks interesting, but power and torque seems too low.

Appreciate any thoughts or recommendations.
 

pxpaulx

Well-Known Member
Skip the speed pedelecs if you're buying for fun. Most bikes that go that fast are designed to get up to speed and stay there. You'll most likely be missing out on the enjoyable bike riding experience that most of the standard bikes provide. I've got a hundred pounds on you, don't worry about your size. Get a mid drive to conquer the hills. My Yamaha Sduro (and probably my new bulls bike) would destroy the hub motor bikes I've owned on any hill of note. Some people will say hubs are just as good on hills, but with more weight there are diminishing returns for a hub drive that are not lost with a mid drive.

Finally, torque sensor, no question. And look up crazy lenny to get a great price under your budget.

Oh, a question, what bikes have you tried out, any yet? If not, find somewhere to get on a bunch of bikes before you buy!
 

opimax

Well-Known Member
If you are buying for fun make sure you get a s-pedelec bike! I ride about 8k miles per year , all fun. When I am out by myself and heading home at 11 pm just riding 28 could easily be 32 if the bike could.

One point to note , I can slow down to 20 when I want but if you are maxed at 20 you can't get to 28.

The rest I agree with , my ST2 came from Lenny's
 

ROCebike

Member
Thanks guys. I've ridden Pedego Interceptor, City Comm, and Ridge Runner. Also an iZip, Townie, and another Bosch mid drive (forgot name). So far no speed Pedelecs but I have noticed my desire to exceed 20 mph already. Probably coming from my younger years with motorcycles.

Since The first bike I tested was the Pedego with 500 watt rear hub with cadence sensor, everything else is comparing to that 'wonder' moment. The torque sensors are indeed a very different feel. I'm just not getting the oomph that I'd like unless I'm really cranking. Perhaps more time in the saddle would convince me. To be fair the Ridge Runner was my first with air shock forks and it had under inflated tires. It was a lot of work to ride it. Maybe setting it up better would help to feel torque sensor differences.

Regardless I've been reading that speed motors are preferentially wound for speed at the expense of torque. I think I'd like the 28 mph for routine riding on back roads. But if I finish every ride with a groan to get up the final hill, that's when I'd be annoyed. So perhaps I'm specifying a minimum 48V and 14. 0 Ah battery to ride fast with some juice left for the finish.

So @pxpaulx i think you get my point well. Machines are differentiated best at the extremes. It's hard to guesstimate a bike's performance when we weigh 1.5 to 2x that of Court. To your point I was considering a DIY with the Bafang 1000W mid-drive. It has convincing specs but I'd rather look for purpose built.

On other Threads there are many references to big guys and broken spokes (rear only) and flats (again rear only). So there is evidence of load on rear hub motors being a factor for heavier riders. Pedego offers mag wheels which would eliminate these problems.

Hey @munchmeister , pardon my crass inquiry but are you over 200 lbs? How's the ST1 holding up? Can you comment on its torque performance for you?

And @opimax , did you consider the ST1 X?

Thanks guys.
 

opimax

Well-Known Member
Had my st2 for just over a year, my wifes st1 over 3 years, st1x is notavailble or at leaast not locally yet. Also many more higher end bikes are available now, still local is 1st choice.
 

grench

Well-Known Member
Had my st2 for just over a year, my wifes st1 over 3 years, st1x is notavailble or at leaast not locally yet. Also many more higher end bikes are available now, still local is 1st choice themn Lennys
Lenny's has the new ST1x - looked at it yesterday.
 

Ravi Kempaiah

Well-Known Member
Hi guys. So now I'm looking for my first ebike. Having read and binge watched multiple reviews, I could use some community guidance. Unlike Court, I'm 6'2" and 230 lbs. So it's hard to get a feel for the specs listed and what to avoid. Here's what I'd like:
- 70% Street, 30% Hardpack former trolley trails
- No commuting. But want to ride for fun, health, and maybe lose 30 lbs.
- Need less aggressive to upright position due to neck issue. Not cruiser style.
- 2 - 4 hour rides perhaps 4 days per week ( semi retired). Maybe 30 mile average rides.
- Prefer speed pedelecs, but need some good torque.
- Kicker is I live on a hill (sound familiar?), 14 % rise for about half mile.

So what motor and battery should I spec? Torque sensor or cadence?
Willing to upgrade components for comfort e.g. Thudbuster, etc
Quality parts and build, I hate buyers remorse.

Seems a Stromer ST2 fits the bill, but my budget is up to $4000. Cross Current looks interesting, but power and torque seems too low.

Appreciate any thoughts or recommendations.
You're in for luck. There is one bike that matches all those requirements.
Two weeks ago, I would have hesitated to recommend it but now I am very comfortable recommending Outlaw E45 from BULLS.
By far, the most torque out of a geared hub motor.

You can see Court's video here.

If you want to see more high-res pics of every component, you can see here.

@grench is perhaps the first in the US to have an upgraded controller and this new controller makes the bike a completely different beast.
He is over 300 lbs and this thing has quite impressive hauling power.
I have ridden the torquey geared hub motors, the 2017 line up from Easy Motion is up there with MAC motors. The SR Suntour motor on the Outlaw is little noisy but it is extremely torquey as well. The fork on that alone retails for $700. It doesn't come with fenders or racks but looks like you're not looking to commute.

You can get it for under $4K and it comes 48V, 14Ah. A massive 670Whrs and for a 230 lb rider, you're looking at 45 miles range easily.
 

opimax

Well-Known Member
How easy is swapping batteries on the road and is that battery as expensive as it looks?
 

grench

Well-Known Member
How easy is swapping batteries on the road and is that battery as expensive as it looks?
These batteries require exact positioning to change out. The fit very snug and alignment has to be right. There are rubber bumpers on the top side which compress to keep the battery from vibrating. The first few times you remove and replace it will be a struggle but it gets easier with practice.


And Yes!
 

opimax

Well-Known Member
I guess in terms of cost i get 45 out of my st2 so compared to the 700- 1000 it costs is it more expensive?
 

pxpaulx

Well-Known Member
I watched courts video for the outlaw and it certainly appears to check all the right boxes. The 500w motor coupled with the torque sensor and 48v battery are probably a very nice strong combination! The only better option would probably be a build with the bbshd for the extra power, but that is also stepping outside of most state and fed limits.
 

grench

Well-Known Member
I watched courts video for the outlaw and it certainly appears to check all the right boxes. The 500w motor coupled with the torque sensor and 48v battery are probably a very nice strong combination! The only better option would probably be a build with the bbshd for the extra power, but that is also stepping outside of most state and fed limits.
The most important difference from Court's review is the update to the controller. The bike (in Courts review) was speed limited by the assist level. This limit has been removed with the new controller programming. It now performs similarly to the Stromer - you can achieve 29+mph with low level assist.
 

pxpaulx

Well-Known Member
The most important difference from Court's review is the update to the controller. The bike (in Courts review) was speed limited by the assist level. This limit has been removed with the new controller programming. It now performs similarly to the Stromer - you can achieve 29+mph with low level assist.
That is a smart move, there is no reason companies should tie the amount of supplied power with a top speed. The top speed should always be the same regardless of assist levels!