Any experience with EV charging network for eBikes, like evgo.com?

BikeMike

Active Member

I noticed Whole Foods is part of the charging station network. The network is for cars. Whole Foods is a very convenient place to stop for food and to top off battery.

Some places have free charging stations, too. All one needs is an adapter. I sure wish eBike battery packs were fast charging. It would be nice to recharge in one hour, while taking a food break on a long trip.

I called evgo.com. Not very helpful. Told me i need a J1772 adapter:

 
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FlatSix911

Well-Known Member

I noticed Whole Foods is part of the charging station network. The network is for cars. Whole Foods is a very convenient place to stop for food and to top off battery.

Some places have free charging stations, too. All one needs is an adapter. I sure wish eBike battery packs were fast charging. It would be nice to recharge in one hour, while taking a food break on a long trip.

I called evgo.com. Not very helpful. Told me i need a J1772 adapter:

I use the 240V charging network frequently with my EV's.
If you want to charge your bike you will need 120V power so an inverter will be required.
You could install an inverter in your car and charge your bike from the 120V power source.
 

CityExplorer

Active Member
I use the 240V charging network frequently with my EV's.
If you want to charge your bike you will need 120V power so an inverter will be required.
You could install an inverter in your car and charge your bike from the 120V power source.
Not necessarily, a lot of e-bike chargers support 240V input.

Just checked the 4 I have and they all do, including another 8 or so for other PEV. The Grin Cycle Satiator also support 240V input. I have a J1772 Level-2 AC adapter, but the important thing is it will only work on chargers that are AC, and not the newer DC chargers. Not sure how well this will work out in the real world charger network.
 

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BikeMike

Active Member
By a long trip, i mean riding this 105 mile route in one day. I am uncertain how much power I need to make the trip at an average speed of 15 to 20mph. I would return the next day, for a weekend trip.

Ideally, i would like to average 20 to 25mph.

The details are here:




 
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CityExplorer

Active Member

I noticed Whole Foods is part of the charging station network. The network is for cars. Whole Foods is a very convenient place to stop for food and to top off battery.

Some places have free charging stations, too. All one needs is an adapter. I sure wish eBike battery packs were fast charging. It would be nice to recharge in one hour, while taking a food break on a long trip.

I called evgo.com. Not very helpful. Told me i need a J1772 adapter:

Yes, a J1772 Adapter is the easiest way to go. I have one, see message just a couple up, but I bought it for other PEV and have not had a chance or need to give it a test just yet. Hoping to very soon.
 

BikeMike

Active Member
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BikeOn

New Member
The SL Battery charger looks like a EU device. Is that the same connection as US bikes? Is that a battery bank? If so, isn't that a whole lot cheaper than the Range Extender?
Also I was wondering, could you use car battery jump batteries that have a 110 outlet?
 

BikeMike

Active Member
The SL Battery charger looks like a EU device. Is that the same connection as US bikes? Is that a battery bank? If so, isn't that a whole lot cheaper than the Range Extender?
Also I was wondering, could you use car battery jump batteries that have a 110 outlet?
I see what you mean. The webpage displays UK English and euros. The SL charger plug is peculiar, but seems the same in both countries.

It is the US page for the Range Extenser.

I will look into other voltages and power sources.

 

BikeMike

Active Member
The SL Battery charger looks like a EU device. Is that the same connection as US bikes? Is that a battery bank? If so, isn't that a whole lot cheaper than the Range Extender?
Also I was wondering, could you use car battery jump batteries that have a 110 outlet?
I see what you mean. I would be better off with a battery that could charge the extender while riding. Start the ride powered only from the extender. Drain it. Ride on the main battery while the extender recharges. Clever.

Power bankEdit
A power bank is a portable device that can supply power from its built-in battery through a USB port. Power banks are popular for charging USB charged devices and can be used as a power supply for various USB powered devices such as lights and small fans. They usually recharge with a USB power supply. The power bank includes a control circuit that both regulates charging of the battery and converts the battery voltage to 5.0 volts for the USB port.[citation needed]

 

FlatSix911

Well-Known Member
Not necessarily, a lot of e-bike chargers support 240V input.

Just checked the 4 I have and they all do, including another 8 or so for other PEV. The Grin Cycle Satiator also support 240V input.
I have a J1772 Level-2 AC adapter, but the important thing is it will only work on chargers that are AC, and not the newer DC chargers. Not sure how well this will work out in the real world charger network.
Interesting... thanks for sharing.
Can you list the 240V chargers for reference?
Where did you source your J1772 Level 2 adapter for 120V AC power?
 
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CityExplorer

Active Member
Interesting... thanks for sharing.

Can you list the 240V chargers for reference? Where did you source your J1772 Level 2 adapter for 120V AC power?
The specific chargers are not really important because I believe most of the adapters above a few watts made in the last decade have been of the switching design that are readily made to accept a wide input voltage for international sales, and most of them also support 50 or 60hz frequencies.

I recommend people just look at their own adapters, the labeling should be very clear. Do not assume anything! Check your adapter specifications, as manufactures change adapters frequently based on supply and price.

For the record here though I checked my Juiced, DJ-ebikes, and Grin for ebike adapters, and several PEV adapters (Segway, Kingsong, Gotway, others). Non of these companies make their own adapters they all just buy almost cheapest ones they can find and their suppliers often change and they never mention that.


A friend into EVs hooked me up on the adapter, I don't remember the details right now. After I've tested it I'll see if I can get the information organized if people are interested. If you can't wait look at the EV builder and supply companies; I'm sure google knows.
 

FlatSix911

Well-Known Member
The specific chargers are not really important because I believe most of the adapters above a few watts made in the last decade have been of the switching design that are readily made to accept a wide input voltage for international sales, and most of them also support 50 or 60hz frequencies.

I recommend people just look at their own adapters, the labeling should be very clear. Do not assume anything! Check your adapter specifications, as manufacturers change adapters frequently based on supply and price. For the record here though I checked my Juiced, DJ-ebikes, and Grin for ebike adapters, and several PEV adapters (Segway, Kingsong, Gotway, others). None of these companies make their own adapters they all just buy almost cheapest ones they can find and their suppliers often change and they never mention that.

A friend into EVs hooked me up on the adapter, I don't remember the details right now. After I've tested it I'll see if I can get the information organized if people are interested. If you can't wait look at the EV builder and supply companies; I'm sure Google knows.
Google works, but the intent is to help other EBR members with a useful reference source... ;)
 

CityExplorer

Active Member
...
Also I was wondering, could you use car battery jump batteries that have a 110 outlet?
You can use whatever you have that works, but check the Wh capacity of those Jump-Starters, not going to get you too far. If you use the 110 inverter output (which may or may not have a high enough rating for your charger) you have more losses there.

They make large 1500Wh battery banks such as the Bluetti and Jackery series and even larger ones. These are great devices, but batteries are large and heavy, unless you plan to recharge these things with Solar as you go, you are better off with just an extra battery, or a solar system to charge your batteries directly. If you are traveling with a car/truck or RV and taking the bike, then something like the Bluetti devices would be a suitable option for some people/use-cases.
 

CityExplorer

Active Member
Google works, but the intent is to help other EBR members with a useful reference source... ;)
With battery and electrical info I'm cautious so will wait for testing. Too much crap on the internet about batteries, charging and the like. Those really interested I'm sure can take a few moments to do some research when safety it is important like this. There are enough influencers on this forum as it is.
 

BikeMike

Active Member
Perhaps, i framed the question imprecisely. A more quantifable question for planning purposes. I am trying reason about the solution, more than calculate the answer.

  • I am looking for a general ratio of human to motor power that maximizes speed and optimizes battery consumption.
    • My guess is 2:1 power ratio, @ 22 mph for four hours or 88 miles
    • Therefore, i will pedal 12 miles unpowered over 100 miles.
    • The elapsed time is TBD.
    • A 2:1 ratio is another way of expressing Eco mode.
    • Therefore, I should be able to make my 105 mile trip by turing off power on the downhill sections.
    • In adverse conditions, my backup plan is to recharge during lunch.
    • Set three power modes to
      • 05%, 17% and 33%.
      • 5% rather than turing off power
      • Or, roughly 20:1, 4:1 and 2:1 human to motor power ratios
  • Let's simplify any parameter that upsets the ratio in a significant manner, by assuming a reasonable default,
    • i.e, wind less than 5 mph.
    • Excellent aerobic capacity and leg strength

The goal is determine how far i must pedal unpowered.
  • I am willing to pedal unpowered for some distance ratio, depending on average powered speed.
  • I am willing to stop and recharge batteries during food break(s), for some ratio of time, given average speed.

At what approximate speed range is battery consumption optimized?
  • over a 100 mile course (along two rivers)
  • on relatively flat terrain, i.e., both gradually gaining and losing 1,000 feet per 50 miles
  • assuming 240 watts (same as motor)
  • Obviously, using the capacity of both batteries for Creo SL Comp Carbon
  • More parameters might be necessary?
  • What recharge strategy might minimize recharge delay?
    • Recharge battery from 40% to 80% ?
  • I don't have a power meter for my bike, but buying one might eliminate guesswork.
  • I am just trying to build a few profiles to categorize scenarios
    • 15 to 20 mph
    • 21 to 26 mph
    • Or any meaningful speed ranges

To establish a progressive training program that eventually allows me to reach 100 miles:
  • Turn around at half battery power, if distance is less than 55 miles.
    • Set three power modes to 05%, 17% and 33%.
    • 5% rather than turing off power
    • 20:1, 4:1 and 2:1 human to motor power ratios
  • At halfway point, recharge time is dictated by time needed to recharge to half capacity.
  • Which head unit gives most precise or useful battery and power information?
I feel fairly confident that a fast (22mph average speed), 100 mile ride is feasible with useful information and a car charging station network. The primary unanswered question is the best battery strategy?

  1. At what battery capacity level should the battery be recharged? (40%) ?
  2. What level should the battery be recharged to? (80%) ?
  3. I prefer to rely completely on the main battery, to save weight and expense.
  4. My guess is two stops are required, about 33 miles apart?
 
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CityExplorer

Active Member
Which one do you recommend ? Many options ,many reviews out there...
I see that it is a very common EV connector . Would that solve charging on the go ? I have a Satiator , programmed for 6.3amps rate when travelling.


This one ?

I don't have any personal experience with this yet so I cannot make a recommendation. The one you posted looks like it might work if it has the internal electronics to signal the charger. Since it says it is good for Motorcycles, this one would be worth a try or send them an email to confirm.
 

CdnShaun

Active Member
Perhaps, i framed the question imprecisely. A more quantifable question for planning purposes. I am trying reason about the solution, more than calculate the answer.

  • I am looking for a general ratio of human to motor power that maximizes speed and optimizes battery consumption.
    • My guess is 2:1 power ratio, @ 22 mph for four hours or 88 miles
    • Therefore, i will pedal 12 miles unpowered over 100 miles.
    • The elapsed time is TBD.
    • A 2:1 ratio is another way of expressing Eco mode.
    • Therefore, I should be able to make my 105 mile trip by turing off power on the downhill sections.
    • In adverse conditions, my backup plan is to recharge during lunch.
    • Set three power modes to
      • 05%, 17% and 33%.
      • 5% rather than turing off power
      • Or, roughly 20:1, 4:1 and 2:1 human to motor power ratios
  • Let's simplify any parameter that upsets the ratio in a significant manner, by assuming a reasonable default,
    • i.e, wind less than 5 mph.
    • Excellent aerobic capacity and leg strength

The goal is determine how far i must pedal unpowered.
  • I am willing to pedal unpowered for some distance ratio, depending on average powered speed.
  • I am willing to stop and recharge batteries during food break(s), for some ratio of time, given average speed.

At what approximate speed range is battery consumption optimized?
  • over a 100 mile course (along two rivers)
  • on relatively flat terrain, i.e., both gradually gaining and losing 1,000 feet per 50 miles
  • assuming 240 watts (same as motor)
  • Obviously, using the capacity of both batteries for Creo SL Comp Carbon
  • More parameters might be necessary?
  • What recharge strategy might minimize recharge delay?
    • Recharge battery from 40% to 80% ?
  • I don't have a power meter for my bike, but buying one might eliminate guesswork.
  • I am just trying to build a few profiles to categorize scenarios
    • 15 to 20 mph
    • 21 to 26 mph
    • Or any meaningful speed ranges

To establish a progressive training program that eventually allows me to reach 100 miles:
  • Turn around at half battery power, if distance is less than 55 miles.
    • Set three power modes to 05%, 17% and 33%.
    • 5% rather than turing off power
    • 20:1, 4:1 and 2:1 human to motor power ratios
  • At halfway point, recharge time is dictated by time needed to recharge to half capacity.
  • Which head unit gives most precise or useful battery and power information?
I feel fairly confident that a fast (22mph average speed), 100 mile ride is feasible with useful information and a car charging station network. The primary unanswered question is the best battery strategy?

  1. At what battery capacity level should the battery be recharged? (40%) ?
  2. What level should the battery be recharged to? (80%) ?
  3. I prefer to rely completely on the main battery, to save weight and expense.
  4. My guess is two stops are required, about 33 miles apart?
Hello Mike,

I will try to help you at least a little bit with some of the questions you have here from what I have learned and real world experience.

In no particular order:

-I come from the world of conversion bikes, not OEM builds and continue to work with these manufacturers/resellers of said equipment. Just wanted to mention that up front.

-Cycle Analysts from Grin Technologies is well known for not only being very customize capable but giving loads of information. I'm about to install CA's on two of my bikes for reference. A key data point I look forward to is the CA calculating in retail time the Wh/Km (or WH/Mile) consumption of the ride. Here's a link to this product for review:


Not sure if you could adapt such a unit into your setup but wanted to let you know of it being in the market for reference.

-From Grin's website they have a wonderful tool for calculating equipment's performance (and combinations of equipment with ride details, rider power input and so on) which really opened my eyes to what I have been using (Bionx D500 motors and batteries) and what equipment I'm considering. It's known as their motor simulator:


Here I was able to select my legacy Bionx Motor and rider/equipment weight details, input power from rider, grade of the ride, etc. It gave me Wh/Km estimates, optimal riding speed for each situation, estimated range, etc.

I can confirm from real world riding the simulator is quite accurate and using what I learned from it has helped me better plan my rides and usage of my batteries.

-I am a heavier rider (270lbs). The bike and motor I ride is 65lbs, add on 45lbs of batteries (5 x 11.6Ah (557 Wh) batteries) and 20lbs of fluids, food and tools comes to my 400lb total riding weight when I go out currently for long rides.

The 5 batteries = 2,785 Wh officially. I estimate I am able to use approximately 500Wh per battery as I do not run them right to empty but close to it. My Strava/Polar bike computers estimates I am outputting around 150-180 watts of power - how accurate that is I do not know but wanted to mention it.

Currently my real world experience is with my 400lb total riding weight, 2,500 Wh of capacity to a 500W (nominal)/50nm Hub motor with my input at 150-180 watts = 135-150km (83-93 miles) rides with 900-1,300M of elevation change typically in my riding area.

-Charging times - the fastest charger I have seen in my research is the Grin Satiator which can safely push 8 Amp/360 watts into a 48V battery. There may be slightly higher capable chargers - I have seen 10 Amp and 12 Amp @ 48 Volt options from China websites like AliExpress but no confirmed details on them.

Again, my knowledge is limited but wanted to share. At 360 Watts the charger would of provide 360Wh per 1 hour of charge time. Once you know how many Watts your charging system is inputting to your battery you would then be able to calculate your charging time for XXX Wh - i.e. roughly 2 hours for 720 Wh if your charger can input 360 Watts for example.

-My experience with lithium batteries, even at my heavy total riding weight and typical 5-8% grade hills (at most I have seen 12-14% grades in my area) the Voltage 'Sag' really impacts my ability to hill climb once I'm below 30%. Below 15% I'm climbing at 1/2 (or less) the speed I would be with a more charged battery.

Knowing my routes fairly well now I will keep going on a battery below 20% right down to 5% if there is no significant hill climbs, squeezing out those extra few kms/miles, extending my ride as far as possible. Once below 20% (I have 48V batteries to mention) and I see a big hill climb ahead - I will typically swap batteries at this point if possible.

-Charging 'speed' of lithium batteries from what I have read is steady from 5% to 90% for sure. From 90% to 100% the experience of lithium batteries is you're 'packing the last bit in' and perhaps may slow the charging (not sure but worth looking into) - and as you will see in other threads - if you can charge batteries to 90% versus 100% you extend their cycles/lifetime to your benefit. Just something to keep in mind for all you are calculating.

-I typically ride at 25-42kmph, 15-26mph for reference.


On a last personal note, a goal I have set this year is to start enjoying 3 day bike camping trips. My plans it to tow behind me a small trailer (Burley Coho XC) with full camping setup and ride out to a destination somewhere around 100-200kms away (building a new bike for longer range riding is part of this summer's plan as well, currently in progress).

Set up camp for the night at a site with hydro. Charge the bike overnight. Enjoy a full day of camp site activities and let my legs/back fully recover. Day 3 with fully (90% or 100% depending on the distance home, lol) ride back to my home and get ready for the work week ahead.

Knowing I will only be able to operate at most (safely) 2 x 300 watt chargers off the shared power at a camp site, I will need the 12-18 hours of overnight (minimum) to be sure I can recharge my batteries if they are mostly depleted.

Staying the full extra day lets my body itself recharge as well and of course actually enjoy the camp site life for a day, not just ride out and ride back.

Long term (2021, perhaps 2022) I am considering multi-day bike camping trips going from site to site, recharging each night I stay over. The challenge will be deciding to pack up and ride every day or double the length of the trip by staying at each camp site for the extra day every time I stop - either way I know I would enjoy such trips when I'm ready for them. My hope is to reach 1,000, maybe even 2,000kms on a single trip out from home when I do.


Hope this helps. Look forward to your thoughts/reply.

Cheers
Shaun