Anybody else go from a rear hub motor to mid drive?

McCorby

Well-Known Member
If you are saying shifting a mid drive is not much different than shifting a regular mountain bike then I’m definitely more interested.
If you ease up on your pedaling force when you shift your non eBike, then yes, it’s really no different. I shift my eBike no differently than I shift my analog gravel bike.

I definitely recommend that you test ride one if you can.
 
If you ease up on your pedaling force when you shift your non eBike, then yes, it’s really no different. I shift my eBike no differently than I shift my analog gravel bike.

I definitely recommend that you test ride one if you can.
Yeah that’s how I shift. Need this state to thaw just a bit and then I’m on one.
 

kmccune

Active Member
Mike, I have both. A 1000w+ MAC 12t gear driven hub drive and an Ultra powered fatty. In all fairness, breaking 2 chains in a mile with a mid drive is almost certainly user error. So there's that. Another thing is the often mentioned stuff about the "right gear" being critical with ALL mid drives. When talking about an ULTRA mid drive, that's not been my experience at all. This thing is a giant torque monster. It's an electric motor! They are ALL about generating all sorts of torque. There is NO NEED to keep it within a very narrow power band. That's horse puckey! For typical riding at typical throttle settings, ridden with ANY degree of common sense, it's VERY forgiving of what gear it's in. It's not until you start cranking in massive amounts of power and pushing the motor's limits that things become more critical. Things like trying a full throttle start while in top gear are not going to end well. Taking off from a stop with moderate throttle in 5th gear? Easy Peazy! It'll be pulling less than 500 watts and it's rated for 3 times that!

All that said, I still think the hub drive is easier to ride. My point here, is that if you are going that way (hub drive), don't do it because somebody managed to break "2 chains within a mile". Do it with the whole (REAL) story in mind.... -Al
Sorry for the late post, you were talking about the"right gear" on starting out on a mid-drive. On a "medium-duty" single axle Dumptruck( the old 5x2 variety) if you had a 2spd axle that was stuck in high range or a driver that didn't shift into low range with a loaded truck starting out-it was easy to snap an axle when the motor was twisting in the mounts and "buck jumping" these axles were not that small either, The torquey engine and zero road speed were not compatible, you have to match power and load, the inertia tries to hold you in place, while the force"torque" is trying to overcome inertia. These mid drives do not have a friction clutch and flywheel or torque converter, the moment of stress on the chain often exceeds the" tensile strength" of the chain itself, for a fraction of a second anyway. If you had some sort of "torque converter in the driveline you could be off to a slow less, driveline stressing takeoff up to the point the gearing would be so high it would not even move( guess thats what a flywheel is for, many trucks would start to move a heavy load only to "choke out" if the motor power and torque multiplication was not enough to move the load and overcome inertia, the Drivers that didn't know what "granny gear" was for were the ones always breaking some part in the driveline.
Its true the electric motor can serve as a sort of transmission in itself as long as Rpm and "torque rise" are working in harmony, the problem lies in the fact the little middrive motors can throw a lot of torque from 'stall' while on the older hub motors generally, the torque rise is a bit gentler. Its very possible to have enough"feedback sensors" in the driveline to work with a controller that would limit starting torque and be easier on the driveline, however with a little technique its not necessary.
I remember watching a naturally aspirated vs a turbo charged "formulae car" the naturally aspirated car had more torque at low RPM vs the higher peaky torque of the "supercharged" car, the NA car would leave the supercharged car sitting on exiting a turn, while at the end of the stretch the supercharged car had caught up with this car. Gearing and torque rise are important for performance and sheer pleasure, while top speed gratifies some, others like the rush of high G acceleration. Its difficult to have the "max" of both Worlds and try to keep the price somewhat affordable.
I predict "supercapacitors" as well as integral motor transmission units for the future of "EBiking" while I would watch out for the integrated wheel and motor combo. All this new tech will ultimately lower the price and increase the performance of the high end stuff. I would watch Justine of "Grin Tech" for some real improvements in the years to come.
You may say " We already have wheel and motor combo", true- the thing is thats not what I am referring to,( linear induction perhaps?) we will see.
 

AHicks

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
Snow Bird - Summer S.E. Michigan, Winter Gulf Coast North Central Fl.
Sorry for the late post, you were talking about the"right gear" on starting out on a mid-drive. On a "medium-duty" single axle Dumptruck( the old 5x2 variety) if you had a 2spd axle that was stuck in high range or a driver that didn't shift into low range with a loaded truck starting out-it was easy to snap an axle when the motor was twisting in the mounts and "buck jumping" these axles were not that small either, The torquey engine and zero road speed were not compatible, you have to match power and load, the inertia tries to hold you in place, while the force"torque" is trying to overcome inertia. These mid drives do not have a friction clutch and flywheel or torque converter, the moment of stress on the chain often exceeds the" tensile strength" of the chain itself, for a fraction of a second anyway. If you had some sort of "torque converter in the driveline you could be off to a slow less, driveline stressing takeoff up to the point the gearing would be so high it would not even move( guess thats what a flywheel is for, many trucks would start to move a heavy load only to "choke out" if the motor power and torque multiplication was not enough to move the load and overcome inertia, the Drivers that didn't know what "granny gear" was for were the ones always breaking some part in the driveline.
Its true the electric motor can serve as a sort of transmission in itself as long as Rpm and "torque rise" are working in harmony, the problem lies in the fact the little middrive motors can throw a lot of torque from 'stall' while on the older hub motors generally, the torque rise is a bit gentler. Its very possible to have enough"feedback sensors" in the driveline to work with a controller that would limit starting torque and be easier on the driveline, however with a little technique its not necessary.
I remember watching a naturally aspirated vs a turbo charged "formulae car" the naturally aspirated car had more torque at low RPM vs the higher peaky torque of the "supercharged" car, the NA car would leave the supercharged car sitting on exiting a turn, while at the end of the stretch the supercharged car had caught up with this car. Gearing and torque rise are important for performance and sheer pleasure, while top speed gratifies some, others like the rush of high G acceleration. Its difficult to have the "max" of both Worlds and try to keep the price somewhat affordable.
I predict "supercapacitors" as well as integral motor transmission units for the future of "EBiking" while I would watch out for the integrated wheel and motor combo. All this new tech will ultimately lower the price and increase the performance of the high end stuff. I would watch Justine of "Grin Tech" for some real improvements in the years to come.
You may say " We already have wheel and motor combo", true- the thing is thats not what I am referring to,( linear induction perhaps?) we will see.
I'm up on the heavy duty stuff. I get what you are saying. Probably not like you are, but I've spent some time driving straight trucks for instance - and typical farm equipment.

What needs to be understood is that the Ultra incorporates a LOT of electronic wizardry built into it's controller. I don't beleive some people take that into consideration. While the factory setup leaves a little to be desired for some of us, they can be dialed in to resemble a rolling rocker/recliner if that's your preference. Or if you'd rather have chain stretching acceleration it's just fine with that as well! Things like fully adjustable soft start motor acceleration from a stop, and adjustable starting voltage whether pedaling or using the throttle are just the tip of the iceberg. It's actually a little intimidating at first. It's easily the most adjustable motor I've ever experienced.... and to that you can add the torque sensing.

It's with that in mind I say that accelerating from a stop in 5th gear just isn't that big a deal. No slipping clutches, just point it and go.... as long as you're driving in a sane manner. -Al