Anything on Canbus protocol yet

Gr3

Member
Anything on Canbus protocol yet. These ultra's are dangerous the way they are now to ride and very uncomfortable.
 

AHicks

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
Snow Bird - Summer S.E. Michigan, Winter Gulf Coast North Central Fl.
I have the disinct feeling that when something like that even gets close, it will be common knowledge on this and several other forums.
 

Gr3

Member
I work with China on things and I was told this is the device we will need to do Canbus on these bikes. Does anyone no if this is so?

Canbus Program.jpg
 

AHicks

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
Snow Bird - Summer S.E. Michigan, Winter Gulf Coast North Central Fl.
Yes, something like that will be required to connect.
-BUT-
Connecting to the CAN BUS is the easy piece. It's communicating with it once connected that's the hard part/stumbling block.
 

Ridetoglide

Active Member
Region
USA
My Canbus Biktrix Ultra Beast is ok to ride on the beach but on the road it has too much power in assist one. I cant wait until the canbus is cracked so i can smooth out some of the settings.

Once they come out with something or a way for me to update my M620 firmware i will buy the BESST tool and modify. I was watching a youtube video and it looks like a PITA to use.
 

Gr3

Member
My Canbus Biktrix Ultra Beast is ok to ride on the beach but on the road it has too much power in assist one. I cant wait until the canbus is cracked so i can smooth out some of the settings.

Once they come out with something or a way for me to update my M620 firmware i will buy the BESST tool and modify. I was watching a youtube video and it looks like a PITA to use.
We need to keep on this and let others know about these problems. That way people will buy other brands if Bafang doesn't help us with this.
 

m@Robertson

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
I work with China on things and I was told this is the device we will need to do Canbus on these bikes. Does anyone no if this is so?

View attachment 97066
The BESST tool requires a dealer connection to Bafang to authenticate before you are allowed access to a VERY limited number of parameters. So yes thats the programmer no you can't expect to get much of anything out of it unless you are a Bafang dealer, and even then you can kiss goodbye most of the things available in the UART motors.
 

m@Robertson

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
We need to keep on this and let others know about these problems. That way people will buy other brands if Bafang doesn't help us with this.
Bear in mind that the USA is a teeny piece of Bafang's business, and the DIY market where people want to dig into the motors is a sliver of that. Bafang has *never* been happy about anyone programming their motors... ever. This is their way of locking people out for good. Don't expect it to change unless its a total aftermarket effort.
 

AHicks

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
Snow Bird - Summer S.E. Michigan, Winter Gulf Coast North Central Fl.
Bear in mind that the USA is a teeny piece of Bafang's business, and the DIY market where people want to dig into the motors is a sliver of that. Bafang has *never* been happy about anyone programming their motors... ever. This is their way of locking people out for good. Don't expect it to change unless its a total aftermarket effort.
Teeny part of their business, yes, certainly. The bigger story though, is the mid drive stuff we're talking about is mostly illegal anywhere but the US. Consider the market for 100nm plus motors outside the US. How many Ultra M620's do you think might be sold in Japan, or Europe? That's the "teeny" market!

Point being, they can open this Can Bus thing of theirs up, make it work SOMEHOW, go back to UART, or they can throw all that development work in the trash can. I don't see any other option for them. People are NOT going to keep buying this motor with the current programming available.
 
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Ridetoglide

Active Member
Region
USA
I am not happy with the new unprogrammable motor knowing the older version is more programmable.... going from good to worse is not acceptable. My game plan is to be patient and wait for the bus to be cracked.... if that doesn't happen i will look to maybe get an aftermarket controller or a new aftermarket entire motor ... maybe Luna will have a good solution and/or sell some type of M620 aftermarket product by then.... worse comes to worse I will sell the bike. ( I know Luna sells an M620 motor now but i think its out of stock and i dont want to rip apart a brand new bike yet)
 

Gr3

Member
I can't say enough about this new ultra. I hate to ride the bike. The programing is terrible it's so jerky.
 

Gionnirocket

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
Y. O.
I can't say enough about this new ultra. I hate to ride the bike. The programing is terrible it's so jerky.
One solution may be though a little expensive and I'm not absolutely sure can be done by just replacing the controller is to get an X1 controller from Watt Wagon.
Send them a message to see what your options are.
 

Jon A

Active Member
Region
USA
An X1 controller is a possible solution. If they don't have something that fits a Canbus motor they surely will very soon.

An easy right-now solution would be to simply swap the motor while they're still available in UART: https://www.greenbikekit.com/bafang...otor-parts/g51-m620-ultra-barebone-motor.html

It is possible (nobody knew last time I asked) that the UART controller would work on a Canbus motor: https://www.greenbikekit.com/bafang...-parts/bafang-ultra-motor-controller-52v.html

It would be great if somebody could confirm whether or not that last option is possible as it is by far the cheapest. If it was I'd probably pick up 1/2 dozen of them to put on a shelf for the future.
 

Gionnirocket

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
Y. O.
An X1 controller is a possible solution. If they don't have something that fits a Canbus motor they surely will very soon.

An easy right-now solution would be to simply swap the motor while they're still available in UART: https://www.greenbikekit.com/bafang...otor-parts/g51-m620-ultra-barebone-motor.html

It is possible (nobody knew last time I asked) that the UART controller would work on a Canbus motor: https://www.greenbikekit.com/bafang...-parts/bafang-ultra-motor-controller-52v.html

It would be great if somebody could confirm whether or not that last option is possible as it is by far the cheapest. If it was I'd probably pick up 1/2 dozen of them to put on a shelf for the future.
Have you tried asking Anna @ Green Bike Kit?
They seem to have some inside info on all things Bafang
 

Jon A

Active Member
Region
USA
That's probably the best idea, but I wasn't planning on ordering anything yet (my Ultra luckily came UART). I try not to bother businesses unless I'm really ready to order something...I guess I'm too polite.
 

Ridetoglide

Active Member
Region
USA
I think if i purchased a Uart Ultra the LUNA Magnesium Ultra kit would be the best option, I would need a Uart Display and harness so it would cost about the same.
 

TomD

Well-Known Member
If you are going to spend any money, get controller upgrade (and/or motor) from Watt Wagons. Don't waste your money buying an Ultra from Luna (or anyone else). I highly doubt you'd be able to program it to your satisfaction (due to the sampling frequency issue). The Archon X1 might seem like a pricey upgrade but it's the best money I spent during the pandemic, my Frey CC being a close second but only because the Archon X1 made it complete. YMMV with the Juggernaut.
 

TomD

Well-Known Member
Contact them and see if they are supporting CANBUS yet. Their order page indicates they aren't supporting it yet, but who knows if that's current.

 

Jon A

Active Member
Region
USA
If you are going to spend any money, get controller upgrade (and/or motor) from Watt Wagons. Don't waste your money buying an Ultra from Luna (or anyone else). I highly doubt you'd be able to program it to your satisfaction (due to the sampling frequency issue). The Archon X1 might seem like a pricey upgrade but it's the best money I spent during the pandemic, my Frey CC being a close second but only because the Archon X1 made it complete. YMMV with the Juggernaut.
I have no doubt the Archon X1 is fantastic and greatly improves the Ultra. However, a great many of the most common complaints of the stock Ultra programming have absolutely nothing to do with its sampling frequency. For years these things could be fixed (tuned to taste), greatly improving the feel of the motor for those who wanted to put forth the effort--basically for free. So while the X1 is a solution and probably a very nice upgrade, don't be surprised if somebody who just wants to fix something he thought he could fix for free is still quite angry after being told the X1 is the only solution he should bother with.
 
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