Are battery packs and charger system like good and bad neighbors (cells) randomly huddled together in cold weather around a fire (charger) ?

BikeMike

Active Member
If this system is more transparent and customizable, then i might take a chance on Luna Cycles. I emailed them.

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AlanDB

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
Iowa
three dog night ...

1) get a dog cart for your e-bike.
2) get a dog
3) mount the battery in the cart under the dog bed.
4) always take the dog with you in winter.

You're welcome. :)
 
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BikeMike

Active Member
three dog night ...

1) get a dog cart for your e-bike.
2) get a dog
3) mount the battery in the cart under the dog bed.
4) always take the dog with you in winter.

You're welcome. :)

Dogs are OK, until they chase after me on my bike.
 

AlanDB

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
Iowa
Dogs are OK, until they chase after me on my bike.
Yeah, you also don't want to bungee your cat to the down tube ... especially if it still has claws.

I am just kidding of course ... love my pets even more than my e-bike. :)
 

BikeMike

Active Member
Yeah, you also don't want to bungee your cat to the down tube ... especially if it still has claws.

I am just kidding of course ... love my pets even more than my e-bike. :)

I find coyotes more civil towards bikes than some dogs. At least the coyotes seem playful when i chase after them.
 

BikeMike

Active Member
Day #1 Summary:

Foul weather (25F - 45F temperatures, NW wind 15 - 25mph) battery performance may require a fresh design.


What makes for a good or poor performing foul weather battery pack, charger and battery management system?
  • Rack mounted can be an enclosed, heated unit that is protected from direct wind.

  • Large capacity.
    • Optimal number of cells and series/parallel configuration?

  • Charging process information easily accessed and battery health graphically presented.

  • What is missing from existing systems that make them unreliable in foul weather?
    • Is current frame mounted design appropriate?
    • Redundancy, chemistry, heater, fairing are still unspecified

  • What role does the motor controller play?
    • Suitable power assistance levels for foul weather?
    • Might eMTB power assist concept adapt better to foul weather?
The bike that comes immediately to mind is the izip E3 Path Plus (now $2000). Whether this bike comes anywhere near the intended purpose is under investigation.

I talked with iZip sales. They felt the bike is a fair-weather bike, not a foul-weather bike. They said they offer no foul-weather solution.

https://izipelectric.com/electric-bikes/leisure/e3-path-plus-step-over

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BikeMike

Active Member
iZip E3 Path Plus - an aluminum bike, without front shocks or carbon fork, or balloon tires is probably a very jarring ride at 20mph.

  • Battery: Shimano BT-E6000 , rack type, 418Wh
    • Can a second battery be connected to a switch?
    • ? Which charger?
  • Display: Shimano SC-E6000 Max Assisted Speed 20mph
    • What type of diagnostics can be displayed?
  • Motor: Shimano STePS E6000, 250WRange
  • Estimated 30mi to 50mi
  • FrameLightweight Formed 6061 T6 Aluminum Alloy,
  • Disc Brake,
  • Integrated HeadTubeForkAluminum Alloy Oversize Blades,
  • Disc Brake
  • sprocketForged Alloy Spider, for Shimano STePSCranks
  • Forged Alloy for Shimano STePSRear Derailleur
  • Shimano Acera M300, SGSShifterShimano Acera M300, 9 SpeedBrake LeversShimano
  • M365BrakesShimano M365 Hydraulic Disc Brake
  • CogsetShimano HG200 11-34, 9 speed
  • Rims Weinmann XTB26, 700c Double Wall Alloy
    • ? What is inner rim width?
  • Tires Kenda, K192, 700x40c, w/ K Guard Puncture Protection
    • I prefer 2.4" tires for winter
  • PedalsPP Body, Reinforced, Sealed BearingHandlebarAlloy Riser, with comfort backsweepStemAlloy, Heads Up ComfortSeatpostAlloySeatIZIP Ergo ComfortHeadsetIntegrated,
  • Sealed Bearing
  • ChainKMC x9ePT
  • Ebike Specific Spokes Stainless
  • GripsErgo Rubber Type Extras Kickstand, Massload TA45
 
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BikeMike

Active Member
The new E6100 is due out this fall. Certainly worth waiting for.

https://www.shimano-steps.com/e-bik...scover-the-new-generation-shimano-steps-e6100

The Shimano E-Tube project may be closer to what i seek than the Bosch system. I want easy access to battery diagnostics. The information seems limited, but at least i can access critical information from an ipad. Seems like a more sensible approach than Bosch.

More impressive is 1,000 charges, as opposed to 500 for Bosch. The lowest operating temperature is 15F, which gives me much confidence than Bosch presentation of information. The limits might be the same, but the Bosch communication of information leads towards ambiguity and uncertainty. That perception makes me anxious.

The chainring is 38 or 44 teeth, which is far superior to 15 on Bosch. I still think a 38T chainring is too small. The small chainring on my Compact chainring is 34T, while the big ring is 50T. 34T makes me feels like a hamster in a treadmill. 44T chainring is very welcome.

The replacement battery cost is much more reasonable at $600, vs. $1000 for Bosch 500wh Powertube.

The Shimano motor is a few pounds lighter than the Bosch.

In summary, i feel far more comfortable with Shimano, on the surface. I need to dig into the BMS details. I am ready to abandon Bosch, because Bosch makes less sense to me than Shimano. That feeling might simply be my conventional cycling background.

https://bike.shimano.com/en-EU/technologies/component/details/e-tube.html

E-TUBE is system platform in order to achieve DI2 (DIGITAL INTEGRATED INTELLIGENCE) concept. E-TUBE transmits interactive signals and power supply to each electronic components by “plug & play” connection. E-TUBE is no rust, no stretch, no freeze and it ensures advanced low maintenance. It offers optimum flexibility on your bike.
E-TUBE project gives you to customize setting of electronic components and update its firmware by Windows PC or tablet, smartphone. You can access a range of electronic components information quick and easy and check the system status in moments.

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BikeMike

Active Member
I have not found a bike orientated towards foul-weather. The neoprene covers do not instill a great deal of confidence. The inaccessibility of Battery Management System information is a major negative, because I would want to check the battery before each ride in nasty weather.

I think this ends my foul-weather bike search for this year. eBikes seem designed for fair-weather.
 

BikeMike

Active Member
Insulation, of course. But the battery may heat as it is discharging...my cell phone does, at any rate.

I talked with a Bosch eBike specialist, for an hour. He told me the 2019 Powerfly 5 with a Bosch PowerTube should work fine without any type of insulation. The next step for me is to take the bike for a test ride in cold weather. I should expect about 50 miles in 25F to 45F weather.

Here are some customization tips:
  1. Looks for lights with both a 6v and 12v capability. Set Bosch diagnostics initially to 12v.
    1. (Link Removed - No Longer Exists) or newer
    2. http://www.lezyne.com/product-led-ebike-macro1000.php
    3. SuperNova M99
  2. https://www.schwalbetires.com/node/2366 SCHWALBE G-ONE ALLROUND tubeless
    1. rather than Super Moto-X only with inner tubes
  3. A second battery is unnecessary, unless I want to ride over 50 miles per day.
    1. The Colorado Trail trailhead would be 50+ miles per trip.
    2. Some backpacks are now designed with an eBike battery inner sleeve. Very popular for long races in Europe.
    3. The Dual Battery system is less desirable than carrying a second battery, for my situation.
    4. The neoprene cover is unnecessary
  4. The Nyon or Intuvia provides little benefit for my purposes.
    1. Legal concerns are very different between US and Europe.
  5. The eMTB mode is much better for foul-weather
    1. because eMTB provides much better traction, than other assist levels.
  6. Accessing the BMS diagnostics is not possible,
    1. Running diagnostics is as important to me as pumping tires before each ride.
  7. The BMS comes from their power tool division, which is designed to take workmen level punishment.
    1. The BMS and batteries are still a black box to me, which I feel uncomfortable about.
 
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BikeMike

Active Member
I bought the Evelo Aurora fully loaded model with the Comfort and Safety packages, which should arrive in late September.

https://electricbikereview.com/evelo/aurora/

The reasons I chose this bike are:
  1. Velofix delivery and service
    1. I am fed up with the local bike shop games.
    2. Scheduled mobile service at my home is a welcome relief.
  2. The sales people are knowledgeable and helpful
    1. A very good experience
Bike Features that appeal to me:

  1. NuVinci N380 Harmony HI8 (Fully Automatic Electronic Shifting System)
    1. This makes total sense to me. The bike is designed like a scooter
    2. I feel the lack of this feature is the biggest drawback of all existing eBikes
    3. NuVinci® Harmony™ is the first fully automatic, continuously variable transmission. Other NuVinci® transmissions make it very easy to shift gear ratios, but Harmony™ ups the ante, providing an experience much like driving a car. Just set the desired cadence, and the system lets you always pedal at the same pace, whether you’re going up or down a hill.
    4. This should be similar to eMTB assist level on Bosch
  2. Watts displayed on the device
  3. I can attach a dongle to obtain and/or customize Motor Controller and Battery Management System information
  4. It has a throttle and walk mode
  5. A built-in rack (55lb Max Weight), lights, fenders and kickstand
  6. 48V, 750W motor, the Class 1 or 2 settings can be changed from the display
    1. It can be converted to a pure Class 1 by detaching the wires
  7. 500 wh battery. No hassle obtaining a second battery.
  8. Battery level displayed as a percentage
  9. 40 to 60 PSI tires
  10. Tektro Auriga E-Comp Hydraulic Disc with 160mm Rotors
  11. RIMS: HCL, Aluminum Alloy, Double Wall, 45mm Outer Width, 36 Hole, Black
  12. 26" x 2.0" tires

2018-evelo-aurora-electric-bike-review-1200x600-c-default.jpg
 

Big Tom

Member
The guy who built my battery said the cells are designed to be used in cold weather - these are the Panasonic cells made in Nevada. They were tested in Michigan during the winter at three temps, 38F, 28F, 10F and duplicated what Pansonic had said: That the cells would perform like normal down to 10F
Why are you stuck on Bosch?

You are looking for a special bike, why didn't you build the perfect bike? You can go out and find any Mtn or road/comfort bike you want, as many speeds and any type of brakes. For a winter only bike I'd consider one of the fat tire bikes. If you buy it online you could have shipped it to Bisto Bikes and they will install one of the nicest geared motors you can find, not only power but efficiency as well. 48V, 700W - peaks at 1400 with two additional power stages. The battery will perform in the weather conditions you are looking to ride in. Three year warranty, parts and reasonable labor. Same warranty on the battery AND because he's in the USA you can actually return a battery to him.

Plus you can call and talk to the owner, he is a pretty sharp guy.
 

BikeMike

Active Member
The guy who built my battery said the cells are designed to be used in cold weather - these are the Panasonic cells made in Nevada. They were tested in Michigan during the winter at three temps, 38F, 28F, 10F and duplicated what Pansonic had said: That the cells would perform like normal down to 10F
Why are you stuck on Bosch?

You are looking for a special bike, why didn't you build the perfect bike? You can go out and find any Mtn or road/comfort bike you want, as many speeds and any type of brakes. For a winter only bike I'd consider one of the fat tire bikes. If you buy it online you could have shipped it to Bisto Bikes and they will install one of the nicest geared motors you can find, not only power but efficiency as well. 48V, 700W - peaks at 1400 with two additional power stages. The battery will perform in the weather conditions you are looking to ride in. Three year warranty, parts and reasonable labor. Same warranty on the battery AND because he's in the USA you can actually return a battery to him.

Plus you can call and talk to the owner, he is a pretty sharp guy.

All valid points. I actually bought an Evelo Aurora. A compromise between your suggestion and my lack of dexterity. A major reason was the NuVinci Harmony, which makes the bike's drivetrain like a scooter CVT. i consider eBikes to be electric scooters. A CVT drivetrain is more appropriate in my opinion.


I pedal at an extremely consistent 95RPM. I might go up to 105 to 120 on a steep hill. For the most part, i just want to pedal and leave the decisions to the motor controller software. The BMS and motor controller have all the information needed to optimize battery consumption. I just want to pedal like normal. Let the computer make the calculations.

I vary torque more than cadence, if that makes sense to you? I EASILY and quickly generated 800 watts on the showroom demo, which i feel is broken. I just disregard those results as nonsense.

I prefer to pay Velofix to do the manual work, because i am inefficient at it. Sure i could save money, but i also learn from watching and talking with them.

https://www.velofix.com/what-we-do/

https://electricbikereview.com/evelo/aurora/
 
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Big Tom

Member
All valid points. I actually bought an Evelo Aurora. A compromise between your suggestion and my lack of dexterity. A major reason was the NuVinci Harmony, which makes the bike's drivetrain like a scooter CVT. i consider eBikes to be electric scooters. A CVT drivetrain is more appropriate in my opinion.

I pedal at an extremely consistent 95RPM. I might go up to 105 to 120 on a steep hill. For the most part, i just want to pedal and leave the decisions to the motor controller software. The BMS and motor controller have all the information needed to optimize battery consumption. I just want to pedal like normal. Let the computer make the calculations.

I vary torque more than cadence, if that makes sense to you? I EASILY and quickly generated 800 watts on the showroom demo, which i feel is broken. I just disregard those results as nonsense.

I prefer to pay Velofix to do the manual work, because i am inefficient at it. Sure i could save money, but i also learn from watching and talking with them.

https://www.velofix.com/what-we-do/

https://electricbikereview.com/evelo/aurora/

Regardless you will enjoy your purchase! I checked the specs and you are getting a nice bike, have fun and be careful!