Are humans monkeys?

Handlebars

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Region
Canada
In school many of us were taught that humans are great apes, and are not monkeys.
What do you think and what supports that opinion?
I say "yes", we are monkeys.
I say that because great apes are apes and all apes are monkeys.
 

Marcela

Well-Known Member
The subsequent coming of the laggards and their mechanical creations caused the consciousness of mankind to further descend to almost subhuman levels, all because man departed from the innocence he had when his consciousness was attuned solely to the mind of God and his All-Seeing Eye. Modern biologists, anthropologists and archaeologists trace man's history only as far back as this low point in his cosmic evolution; and then from incomplete data, they draw the conclusion that he descended from the ape. Actually, the era of the caveman marked the depths of man's descent into duality, from which he is destined to rise to that oneness and high estate he knew as a son of God before his departure from innocence. --The Path of the Higher Self
 

Ebiker01

Well-Known Member
Many whom , when looking in a mirror start making a loud circus and wild gesticulations...they may have indeed a higher % of their genome belonging to monkeys/apes . That should partially answer the Q.
 

Buckdubay

Well-Known Member
Genomic comparison is probably the best way to determine our closest ancestors in evolution. However there will not be a direct line because many branches on the tree of evolution have split numerous times leading to more splits and also dead ends. Fossil records will always be incomplete due to the many prefect conditions it take for there preservation.
 

Handlebars

Well-Known Member
Region
Canada
Genomic comparison is probably the best way to determine our closest ancestors in evolution. However there will not be a direct line because many branches on the tree of evolution have split numerous times leading to more splits and also dead ends. Fossil records will always be incomplete due to the many prefect conditions it take for there preservation.
Indeed. However,the question here is not about closest ancestor. The question is to our classification.
Therefore, the question is "Are we Great Apes?" If yes, then "Are we Apes" and then "Are we Monkeys?"
 

PedalUma

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Region
USA
City
Petaluma, CA
I am closest to a Bonobo. A type of chimp that does not engage in war and likes sex. We are more closely related to them than Indian Elephants are to African Elephants and we lump those together as just Elephants.
I think we have devolved since plants such as wheat domesticated us. Our brains used to be proportionally larger, we could make any tool we needed such as a blade sharper than a surgeon's scalpel in a few minutes. We had closer relationships and less hierarchy. We danced and made art and musical instruments. We did not need to work as much. We also did not create lasting garbage.
One of the first Neanderthal discoveries was of a very very old man so people thought the were deformed and less than. Not true, this guy was so old that he could not have survived if not spoon fed and taken care of for many years. These days we send our elders off to be warehoused where they are not seen, so they can die watching TV.
Not only was there divergent evolution, but sometimes the branches came back together. Such as when Sapiens Sapiens mated with Homo Neanderthalensis and with Denisovans.
 
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Buckdubay

Well-Known Member
There isn't much discussion on the forum so I thought I'd throw in my opinion on this.
My answer would be, Hell no there's no way I have any form of kinship to monkeys. Monkeys have tails.
My ole lady sometimes affectionately calls me ape and sometimes when I'm being unreasonable she calls me stuuupid ape.
Scholars have debated it challenging Darwin 's
Theory of Human Evolution and I think they all agree we are homosapien not apes or monkeys .
I agree we are not apes 🦍 or monkeys 🐒. Our species is distinct and different from both. We have departed from a common ancestor that was not quite and ape/monkey and not quite human. From that common ancestor many versions of both branches arose some successful others failed. The branches continued until the species we now the today arose. So we are not monkeys or apes, just humans.
 

Handlebars

Well-Known Member
Region
Canada
But are we not always part of the branch we evolved on? For example, we are still animals and still vertebrates and still mammals and still primates.
Why would that tree and branch suddenly not apply to us after reaching the primate limb?
Who among us disagrees with me, that we are still mammals?
 

PedalUma

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
Petaluma, CA
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Buckdubay

Well-Known Member
But are we not always part of the branch we evolved on? For example, we are still animals and still vertebrates and still mammals and still primates.
Why would that tree and branch suddenly not apply to us after reaching the primate limb?
Who among us disagrees with me, that we are still mammals?
I agree we are primates, but that is an umbrella classification for animals that include lemurs, monkeys, apes and humans. We do have some common traits but also distinct differences. Does not change my assertion.
 

Handlebars

Well-Known Member
Region
Canada
I agree we are primates, but that is an umbrella classification for animals that include lemurs, monkeys, apes and humans. We do have some common traits but also distinct differences. Does not change my assertion.
So you agree that we came up through every branching all the way from the most primitive cell to primate, *we didn't hop off* from every other organism and vertebrate and quadruped and on and on still being on the branch with all those other beings allthose kinds of animals whether still living or extinct, and then....just stopped being on any branch that led these primates to being human? We spit from all other primates, and the branch goes from primate to human with no connection in common with bonobo?
We have separate branch from let's say bonobo and bonobo also has no branch from primate or do we have a branch of primate in common with bobobo?
 
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Buckdubay

Well-Known Member
So you agree that we came up through every branching all the way from the most primitive cell to primate, *we didn't hop off* from every other organism and vertebrate and quadruped and on and on still being on the branch with all those other beings allthose kinds of animals whether still living or extinct, and then....just stopped being on any branch that led these primates to being human? We spit from all other primates, and the branch goes from primate to human with no connection in common with bonobo?
We shared a common ancestor with bonobos and chimpanzee about 6-8 million years ago (current science-always subject to change). But that common ancestor was neither a chimp or human. Ape and monkeys shared a common ancestor even further back about 25 million years ago.
 

Handlebars

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Region
Canada
We shared a common ancestor with bonobos and chimpanzee about 6-8 million years ago (current science-always subject to change). But that common ancestor was neither a chimp or human. Ape and monkeys shared a common ancestor even further back about 25 million years ago.
Ok, so we do have a common ancestor somewhere and it doesn't matter that it isn't a human because we are human and we want the ancestral branch in common with those because nobody is a arguing that we are a type of chimp. So there has to be and is a branch we are on (along with chimp gorilla and orang and other apes), that somehow is attached to "primate" branch.
Correct?
 

J.R.

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
I'm not sure about all this, I was watching this documentary 🤔


Seriously I didn't think this thread was a good idea. But, the posts have been interesting and respectful.

For half my life I heard about the missing link. The last half the missing links. More knowledge has given way to more questions than ever. Fascinating subject.
 

Buckdubay

Well-Known Member
Ok, so we do have a common ancestor somewhere and it doesn't matter that it isn't a human because we are human and we want the ancestral branch in common with those because nobody is a arguing that we are a type of chimp. So there has to be and is a branch we are on (along with chimp gorilla and orang and other apes), that somehow is attached to "primate" branch.
Correct?
No argument about that at all. We do have common ancestor. However modern apes, chimps, orangutans and humans have all evolved on separate branches away from that common ancestor pushed by their environment, mutations and species isolation to become distinct and different. That is why I don’t think you can say we are apes or monkeys
 

Handlebars

Well-Known Member
Region
Canada
No argument about that at all. We do have common ancestor. However modern apes, chimps, orangutans and humans have all evolved on separate branches away from that common ancestor pushed by their environment, mutations and species isolation to become distinct and different. That is why I don’t think you can say we are apes or monkeys
OK, so we and all apes have a common ancestor, correct? Let's call it "T". All apes are on the T branch. Good?
 

Handlebars

Well-Known Member
Region
Canada
I think we agree in all the basic principles of the evolution of humans. We are just getting tripped up by terminology.
We're working on getting untripped now.

Do we agree that we never stop being whatever branch we came along?
 

Dallant

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
Even monkeys can use tools, you know, like Trumpeters.
Actually the real question is if God is so great, how can man be made from him since we are obviously the true evil of the universe. We are clearly his real phuckup.