Ariel Rider D Class or Juiced Bikes HyperScorpion?

easyheimer

New Member
Hello there. I'm new to this forum and I'm looking to get into the e-bike scene. I'm 6'1" and 260lbs and looking to get into shape. Riding a regular bicycle is a little rough for me right now and just doesn't seem that much "fun" to me when I struggle and have to walk to the bike up a steep hill and such. I've been doing some research and even have had discussions with my wife about it and we both narrowed it down to two bikes. I'd like to see what everyone thinks of each and if you can lend your opinion that would be much appreciated.

I feel the extra power and the dual motors on the Ariel Rider D Class would come in handy if needed. I'd mostly use it with the front motor which should give me some good range most of the time. It just seems like a very well made bike and the Ariel Rider name has a great reputation from what I am reading.

The HyperScorpion is more of your moped style and seems to get more range but doesn't look as sharp in my opinion. It's also considerably more expensive than the D Class.

Please let me know what your thoughts are.

Thank you!
 

CdnShaun

Active Member
Helo easyheimer,

I'm a year ahead of you on my own journey with the same goals. I started out last year at 6'0 and 315lbs. Dropped 50lbs from simply a better dietary choices and thousands of kms ridden. I'm now the same size/weight you are and very much relate.

Yes, an ebike will help you ride 10 times more than a non-e. No route, path or opportunity will cause you fear - up to 10% grade hills - no problem, will make you work for the climb but should keep your heart rate at a reasonable level (60-80% of max) where you would likely be struggling (as I still do) on those same hills without the motor. I would often plan routes with little/no hills, limiting my route choices - until I got into ebikes.

A quick note about 2WD's - typically the most efficient use of the battery life is letting the motors share the load at 50/50 at all times. It comes down to the energy loss to heat of using just one motor versus the two motors sharing the workload and operating at lower temperatures. Just wanted to mention this as I'm building out a couple 2WD DIY conversions myself this year and did lots of research into them.

May I ask if you have been to a LBS to try a few bikes out? The Ariel Rider D looks awesome as a fun scoot around bike letting the motors do most of the work. I say this as you're 6'1 and the frame type won't allow you to really get much power out of your legs, compared to a traditional geometry bike frame.

I have tested out this frame type at a LBS and yes, felt like a kid again for sure riding it but would be difficult to get a good workout on it is my opinion (look forward to yours) and as you said in your post, you're looking to get into shape.

Cheers
 

easyheimer

New Member
Thank you very much for your reply. I’m glad you can relate to my journey and congrats for dropping the weight.

I have been to a couple LBS and the frame seemed ok for my size. There were certainly a lot smaller similar bikes that I wouldn’t be able to ride. Of course I see what you’re saying.

I wonder if the HyperScorpion might be better for me as it has the more traditional upright pedal style. Unfortunately I haven’t been able to find that style around me so there’s no way I can really try it out.
 

CdnShaun

Active Member
Again, super fun bikes to ride but the motor will be doing more of the work due to the riding position, at least that is what it felt like when I did my test rides on them.

Are you against something more like a 26" rim fat tire bike with normal geometry? The bigger wheels roll better and over things better, you be more likely go ride longer on it (just guessing here, personal preference is what matters most and you would decide of course) - and quite simply, you would pedal more/go faster and further which equals into more of a workout for the exercise you set as a goal for this purchase.

Let me/us the readers know your thoughts and we will do what we can to help out as much as possible.

Cheers!
 

CdnShaun

Active Member
Your suggestion lead me to a cool video by the founder of Juiced Bikes who makes the HyperScorpion that came out this month.


Damn - it's a lightweight street bike, that you can pedal. A key tidbit I picked up on was the smallest cog on the back is 11T and the chainring....56T!! That's a huge ratio.

Perhaps others with a lot more experience with this bike geometry can comment on doing long rides in this sitting position, the workout you would get from it, etc.
 

Ebiker33

Well-Known Member
@easyheimer

The HyperScorpion is going to have a bit more run time with 52V battery drawing off one motor and a softer ride with dual suspension.
But the D-class will have more power to climb hills with dual motors, then again you are splitting the battery wattage between 2 motors, take your maximum watts out the controller allows out and you split that, so what is it ? I can't find it for either bike. My Sonders XS fold is 48V with 20 amp it's max is 960W divide that by 2 and it's only 480W per wheel. To pull the full power out of those motors like they are bragging about they would need a minimum 35 amp controller. The amp number on the controller is the number one bottle neck in Ebike systems, mostly done for legal reasons.
You can have an awesome battery and motor/motors, but if the controller isn't robust with them as well, it's all marketing, of coarse nobody at an Ebike company will tell you that unless they are proud of their numbers and aren't too scared of having a problem with the legal issues of going beyond 750W
For example 52V battery with 30amp controller and you are suddenly at 1560 watts, yet that is illegal in some areas. It's a grey area.
Also some companies are under rating their motors, somebody tested a rated 250W motor on very popular national brand recently and came in at over 600W, their is some very fussy math being done in the Ebike industry right now, to skirt laws in both America and Europe.

But both are good bikes, but I would inquire of both companies of what is the controller amps and do the math before you pull the trigger.
 
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easyheimer

New Member
@easyheimer
But both are good bikes, but I would inquire of both companies of what is the controller amps and do the math before you pull the trigger.

That's a very good question and thank you for your reply. I just emailed both companies to see what their answer is on the controller amps. I will post it here once they have responded.

Thank you!
 

easyheimer

New Member
Your suggestion lead me to a cool video by the founder of Juiced Bikes who makes the HyperScorpion that came out this month.


Damn - it's a lightweight street bike, that you can pedal. A key tidbit I picked up on was the smallest cog on the back is 11T and the chainring....56T!! That's a huge ratio.

Perhaps others with a lot more experience with this bike geometry can comment on doing long rides in this sitting position, the workout you would get from it, etc.

Yeah, I watched this video a few times. Looks like a nice bike. The only bad thing I can really think of with this bike though is the fact that it looks like a moped and I could see it getting a lot of attention from law enforcement for not having a plate on it etc.
 

CdnShaun

Active Member
Yeah, I watched this video a few times. Looks like a nice bike. The only bad thing I can really think of with this bike though is the fact that it looks like a moped and I could see it getting a lot of attention from law enforcement for not having a plate on it etc.
You definitely have a legit concern there friend. Even with a large hub motor in the rear wheel and a battery on the downtube of the conversion bikes I have - I blend in with other cyclists out on the streets/roads unless I'm being wreckless and going 'noticeably too fast'. :) I save going faster for the open highways where I'm still going less than half the speed of the vehicles going by at 60mph/100kmph. Even there I once has a police officer (OPP for those who know Ontario) slow down beside me, rolled down the window and simply announced 'Nice Bike' before carrying on - still remember the adrenaline rush that gave me, lol.

If you're looking for the 4" wide go anywhere in the city tires (and elsewhere) there are 26" tire bikes out there that look more like a normal fat tire bike and blend in more, along with the more upright riding geometry. That said, both bikes you have linked to have a ton of innovation and tech put into them so it's hard to argue the value you're getting from either of these choices for sure.

Good luck!
 

easyheimer

New Member
@easyheimer

The HyperScorpion is going to have a bit more run time with 52V battery drawing off one motor and a softer ride with dual suspension.
But the D-class will have more power to climb hills with dual motors, then again you are splitting the battery wattage between 2 motors, take your maximum watts out the controller allows out and you split that, so what is it ? I can't find it for either bike. My Sonders XS fold is 48V with 20 amp it's max is 960W divide that by 2 and it's only 480W per wheel. To pull the full power out of those motors like they are bragging about they would need a minimum 35 amp controller. The amp number on the controller is the number one bottle neck in Ebike systems, mostly done for legal reasons.
You can have an awesome battery and motor/motors, but if the controller isn't robust with them as well, it's all marketing, of coarse nobody at an Ebike company will tell you that unless they are proud of their numbers and aren't too scared of having a problem with the legal issues of going beyond 750W
For example 52V battery with 30amp controller and you are suddenly at 1560 watts, yet that is illegal in some areas. It's a grey area.
Also some companies are under rating their motors, somebody tested a rated 250W motor on very popular national brand recently and came in at over 600W, their is some very fussy math being done in the Ebike industry right now, to skirt laws in both America and Europe.

But both are good bikes, but I would inquire of both companies of what is the controller amps and do the math before you pull the trigger.
So Ariel Rider got back to me and each motor is 22amps.

Juiced also got back to me and gave me this answer:

Hey there! Thanks for contacting us at JuicedBikes!

Because the design of the HyperScoprion is not quite finalized yet, I am unable to give you that information at this time.
 

MarkF

Active Member
The HyperScorprion is more of a throttle bike and not really a bike to pedal around and get exercise. It has pedals but there not going to be fun to push. If you want a bike so you can get exercise, I would look elsewhere.
 

Bruce Arnold

Well-Known Member
Yeah, I watched this video a few times. Looks like a nice bike. The only bad thing I can really think of with this bike though is the fact that it looks like a moped and I could see it getting a lot of attention from law enforcement for not having a plate on it etc.
I've got a Scorpion coming in the next few weeks and I'm not the least worried about cops thinking it's a moped. Don't over-think it.
 

Bruce Arnold

Well-Known Member
The HyperScorprion is more of a throttle bike and not really a bike to pedal around and get exercise. It has pedals but there not going to be fun to push. If you want a bike so you can get exercise, I would look elsewhere.
I disagree. All the videos I've seen refer to the different pedaling, but no one cites it as a problem after a day or so of adjustment.

I'll let you know if it's a problem for me. I expect to use pedal assist more than I do on the CCS while I'm getting used to it. I don't expect it to be a long ordeal.
 

easyheimer

New Member
Still thinking the Ariel Rider D Class is the one I’m going to go with. For the torque, dual motors and climbing power it’s worth it to me.
 

CdnShaun

Active Member
easyheimer, might I ask what your riding plans are? What type of area, how long per ride and such? I fully realize you're getting a bike that will be fun and you will ride often (that is the most important factor) - I ask these questions to help understand your vision for when you start riding and offer any insights or tips that might help.

If you don't have a fitness watch already, a bike computer planned - or you can even just use your smart phone with alot of the apps - tracking your riding will help motivate you to ride more, exercise more, at least that is what I found.

I have a bike computer, bluetooth a heart rate strap - as a fellow 'bigger gent' it's ideal to know how hard you're working - both to get the most out of your rides and also know you're not redlining and might blow a gasket. 😂

Even just a free app like Strava on your phone tracking your GPS location will give you record of time spent and speed. It's a great way to get started. A bluetooth chest strap with your smart phone is a low cost solution as well to get even more data about how you're doing. If you like more insight, let me know.

*To share, my resting heart rate went from 85bpm to 67bpm last year and is now 62bpm after the winter. My average bpm for the same rides I did last year is down a full 15bpm as well - all this tells me I'm on the right track and to keep going.

If/when you have a device that can record your rides you can then upload to a free Strava account (www.strava.com) - technically Strava just switched to a 'pay to use' service for a lot of the more advance stuff but still have a free account to get you started. In Strava you will find friends who already use it and make new ones I have found - it helps motivate me as I check in a few times a week to see how everyone is doing - some of my very fit friends are putting in big miles - without a motor! Always impresses me.

To share, I just got back in from taking the afternoon off and went for my first Century (metric - I'm up in Canada, lol) ride of the season. I was on my 700C upright frame bike with a single 500 watt rear motor and lots of battery to make this happen. Here's an example of what you can see after you upload:

Annotation 2020-06-16 205941.png



You may have known all of this already, I just wanted to share another key part to my journey to lose weight/get fit that really made my experience last year 'complete' when I added it to diving into have ebikes to ride.


Take care, keep us posted how you make out moving ahead!
 

easyheimer

New Member
Again, thanks for the info Shaun! I do have an Apple Watch and plan on recording all my data. I hope to lose some weight in no time. Also planning on eating healthier and relying more on water instead of soda.
 

CdnShaun

Active Member
Again, thanks for the info Shaun! I do have an Apple Watch and plan on recording all my data. I hope to lose some weight in no time. Also planning on eating healthier and relying more on water instead of soda.
You are on the right track! Your apple watch will upload to Strava if you want to look into it once you're riding.


What I hope you find is the more you ride, the more you will want to eat better - I find the weeks I ride the most, I eat the best - the inspiration just comes naturally.

Hopefully you can get started with even just 20-30 minutes ride a few times a week (or more) to get the ball rolling. That's what I did last year - every other day (had to get used to the bike seat, lol) for 30 minutes was month 1. By the end of month 4 I riding every day for 30-60 minutes and go for long rides on the weekends.

Then snow came and while I did some winter riding (fat tire ebike) it wasn't much but I learned a lot and will ride much more this winter. I share this as you plan and vision for the years ahead, this purchase could be the game changer for you not just to lose the weight but help keep it off long term - as I hope it does for me as well.

Take care bud!
 

Ebiker33

Well-Known Member
So Ariel Rider got back to me and each motor is 22amps.

Juiced also got back to me and gave me this answer:

Hey there! Thanks for contacting us at JuicedBikes!

Because the design of the HyperScoprion is not quite finalized yet, I am unable to give you that information at this time.

So now you know the most that controller is allowing through and is putting out is 1056 watts, split that by 2, each motor is getting 528W
Still good, and the advantage is one wheel loses traction the other one can still carry the bike. Just remember the front wheel doesn't have that much weight on it, so imagine a front wheel drive car with the engine in the rear and the trunk up front, there is some fluff in the specs and design, still a good bike.

I wish Juiced would admit what it is, they are fully in production, they know, they just don't want to say.
And there are only 2 reasons, either it's too low or too high(legal issues in some States)

Some bike shops sell after market upgrades to get it the power output up there, the only downside is the battery is going to run down much faster.
Here is an example for my bike, but I am not upgrading.
Bolton Bikes Controller Upgrade
 
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easyheimer

New Member
So now you know the most that controller is allowing through and is putting out is 1056 watts, split that by 2, each motor is getting 528W
Still good, and the advantage is one wheel loses traction the other one can still carry the bike. Just remember the front wheel doesn't have that much weight on it, so imagine a front wheel drive car with the engine in the rear and the trunk up front, there is some fluff in the specs and design, still a good bike.

I wish Juiced would admit what it is, they are fully in production, they know, they just don't want to say.
And there are only 2 reasons, either it's too low or too high(legal issues in some States)

Some bike shops sell after market upgrades to get it the power output up there, the only downside is the battery is going to run down much faster.
Here is an example for my bike, but I am not upgrading.
Bolton Bikes Controller Upgrade

Thanks for the info! So you still think this is a good bike? All the reviews I’ve read say to go with the Ariel Rider D Class by a significant amount.
 

Ebiker33

Well-Known Member
Thanks for the info! So you still think this is a good bike? All the reviews I’ve read say to go with the Ariel Rider D Class by a significant amount.
It's better than my Sonders fold XS and that is a great bike, so yeah it's a good bike.
The most important feature for fun is the throttle which this has, and it's a twist style.
I know the agony of trying to decide after reviewing so much on the internet, I can't think of why you would be unhappy with this bike, unless you have back issues and need the rear suspension of the Juiced bike.
But a 4" tire has a small amount of comfort suspension built into them anyways.