Good to hear! Have a M600 bike coming next month, similar city style, and have been wondering how the motor will do.
Bafang M600? Updated 8/14/22
- Thread starter AHicks
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AHicks
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- Snow Bird - Summer S.E. Michigan, Winter Gulf Coast North Central Fl.
Which bike did you go with?
AHicks
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- Snow Bird - Summer S.E. Michigan, Winter Gulf Coast North Central Fl.
Would be interesting to hear your impressions of that motor. Please keep us posted! -Al
The bike came in and the motor is great from my limited use so far. It seems like an Ultra "light". Smoother, quieter and easier to use on the road than the Ultra (CANBUS). The low end is fairly tame. While it does seem to sometimes want to get you an extra mph or so on flats, it's not nearly as pushy as the Ultra is. The high assist end has a *lot* more pep, but you can definitely tell a difference compared to the Ultra. I was a bit concerned it was going to be similar to the Ultra with a bit too much power for what I was looking for (but smoother) but that's really not the case. The two motors are quite a bit different. I'll also say the motor cutoffs are much more responsive. Switching gears or hitting the brake cuts the motor much quicker than the Ultra. The delay in the motor cutoff when you stop pedaling seems similar to the Ultra (again, CANBUS, not sure about UART) which is probably more a preference thing vs. good or bad.
So I guess I'm confirming most of what I am seeing on this thread about the motor. The throttle, on my bike, is programmed a bit differently. It is more gradual and might be tethered some to assist level, but I haven't played with it enough yet. I was surprised how small the motor is compared to the Ultra. Definitely helps give the bike a lower profile. Only have 5 miles on it. Didn't have a ton of time to play with it after it came in yesterday. I'll update more as I get some miles on it and some more time.
Oh, only significant negative is the max sized stock chainring was 40T which, if you're biking above 16 or 17mph, often puts you in the highest few gears. I usually bike right in the 16-20mph zone so using those small gears might have me going through cassettes a bit quicker than if I had a larger chainring. I need to dig around to see if there are any 3rd party adapters. I'd like something like a 46t.
So I guess I'm confirming most of what I am seeing on this thread about the motor. The throttle, on my bike, is programmed a bit differently. It is more gradual and might be tethered some to assist level, but I haven't played with it enough yet. I was surprised how small the motor is compared to the Ultra. Definitely helps give the bike a lower profile. Only have 5 miles on it. Didn't have a ton of time to play with it after it came in yesterday. I'll update more as I get some miles on it and some more time.
Oh, only significant negative is the max sized stock chainring was 40T which, if you're biking above 16 or 17mph, often puts you in the highest few gears. I usually bike right in the 16-20mph zone so using those small gears might have me going through cassettes a bit quicker than if I had a larger chainring. I need to dig around to see if there are any 3rd party adapters. I'd like something like a 46t.
AHicks
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
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- Snow Bird - Summer S.E. Michigan, Winter Gulf Coast North Central Fl.
Many of the same impressions here. Much smaller, lighter, and still able to supply plenty of grunt. Much more civilized than the OEM Bafang Ultra controller settings.
At about 70 miles now, already making 30-35 miles on a charge easily. I can see this bike, with it's 14ah battery, hitting 35-40 miles regularly without much trouble. Mine has been run in PAS 1 almost exclusively to date. That may be something exclusive to the area I'm riding in though.
At about 70 miles now, already making 30-35 miles on a charge easily. I can see this bike, with it's 14ah battery, hitting 35-40 miles regularly without much trouble. Mine has been run in PAS 1 almost exclusively to date. That may be something exclusive to the area I'm riding in though.
Alright so an update here. Did a 51 mile ride this past weekend (excluding ferry rides). Burlington, VT area to Plattsburgh, NY. Mostly paved.
1) Setting the display to 9 PAS levels vs. the 5 stock seems to tame the motor a bit at level 1 and makes it pretty good for road use. I was using level 1 the entire trip. Maintained about around 16mph, except on some hills, but that was fine... I just shifted in those cases. I could have increased the PAS and the motor would have no issues maintaining speed (or speeding up) but was going for economy.
2) The throttle is pointless in PAS 1. It does next to nothing.
3) Managed the 51 miles with, supposedly, 37% left. That said, the capacity percent definitely drops off slower close to 100% than it does as you get lower. I don't know how that changes below 37% though. I need to toss the battery on my other bike to see what the actual voltage is reading. Bottom line is 50 miles was no issue. There was a 10-15mph steady headwind on the way out, and a bit of a tailwind on the way back, but it wasn't as strong. The route was flat'ish (google has 827 feet of elevation gain, round trip). Temperature was in the upper 50s. 21ah battery.
All in all, the bike worked really well for this kind of a trip. As expected, for road use I pretty much only needed PAS 1. Using it at that level, for the most part, isn't overpowering. There is plenty of additional assist available for hilly or faster stuff, if you want it. My guess, after this and how I understand the M510 works is the M510 may be a better choice for primarily road riding, but the M600 is definitely a reasonable motor too, especially if you were to want more power at times.
1) Setting the display to 9 PAS levels vs. the 5 stock seems to tame the motor a bit at level 1 and makes it pretty good for road use. I was using level 1 the entire trip. Maintained about around 16mph, except on some hills, but that was fine... I just shifted in those cases. I could have increased the PAS and the motor would have no issues maintaining speed (or speeding up) but was going for economy.
2) The throttle is pointless in PAS 1. It does next to nothing.
3) Managed the 51 miles with, supposedly, 37% left. That said, the capacity percent definitely drops off slower close to 100% than it does as you get lower. I don't know how that changes below 37% though. I need to toss the battery on my other bike to see what the actual voltage is reading. Bottom line is 50 miles was no issue. There was a 10-15mph steady headwind on the way out, and a bit of a tailwind on the way back, but it wasn't as strong. The route was flat'ish (google has 827 feet of elevation gain, round trip). Temperature was in the upper 50s. 21ah battery.
All in all, the bike worked really well for this kind of a trip. As expected, for road use I pretty much only needed PAS 1. Using it at that level, for the most part, isn't overpowering. There is plenty of additional assist available for hilly or faster stuff, if you want it. My guess, after this and how I understand the M510 works is the M510 may be a better choice for primarily road riding, but the M600 is definitely a reasonable motor too, especially if you were to want more power at times.
I would think the low throttle power in level 1 is set for take off from a start for safety and low wear , on 1 of 620 I can’t use it at low speed, too on and off , almost flipped the bike a couple times where the other bike has been reprogrammed and the throttle follows the pas level and 1 is almost useless except for take offs and that is great for my wife and others that need power before or just as you start the 1st pedal stroke.
AHicks
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- USA
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- Snow Bird - Summer S.E. Michigan, Winter Gulf Coast North Central Fl.
It sounds like there are different "tunes" in play here? I'm at about 100 miles now with this Evelo Atlas, 99.99% of those ridden in PAS 1, and my throttle will pull 1000w from a start or in PAS 1. It does take a second or 2 to spool up to that, but that's likely a safety thing for both myself and the CVT.
I've tried the 9 levels of PAS, but for my purposes I didn't see enough difference in PAS 1 and PAS 2 when looking for a little extra power. I had to go to PAS 3 to get that. So we're back to the 5 levels. The torque sensing seems to have just the right amount of modulation for my purposes using PAS 1 of 5.
Catching up with a buddy or asking for a little boost to climb a rise without changing PAS level or gears works fine with the throttle. Crossing a busy road in a hurry will demand the CVT is in it's lower ranges. By time the motor spools up to the full 1000 watts it has on tap, the road you're crossing will be in back of you. Don't get me wrong here. It's not a dog crossing a road. I just want to point out it takes a second to come up too full power.
Coming off the Ultra or another 1000w bike I have, they'll both give you 100% available when you ask for it, making this lag on the M600 more noticeable. Betting most won't notice it..... -Al
I've tried the 9 levels of PAS, but for my purposes I didn't see enough difference in PAS 1 and PAS 2 when looking for a little extra power. I had to go to PAS 3 to get that. So we're back to the 5 levels. The torque sensing seems to have just the right amount of modulation for my purposes using PAS 1 of 5.
Catching up with a buddy or asking for a little boost to climb a rise without changing PAS level or gears works fine with the throttle. Crossing a busy road in a hurry will demand the CVT is in it's lower ranges. By time the motor spools up to the full 1000 watts it has on tap, the road you're crossing will be in back of you. Don't get me wrong here. It's not a dog crossing a road. I just want to point out it takes a second to come up too full power.
Coming off the Ultra or another 1000w bike I have, they'll both give you 100% available when you ask for it, making this lag on the M600 more noticeable. Betting most won't notice it..... -Al
yeah, agree its different tunes. The way the throttle is setup on mine is pretty useless in low PAS levels, where I pretty much spend all of my time. The throttle actually seems to work against the PAS in that it will actually reduce the assist if you need more than whatever it is set to push out. So if you are pedaling and have the throttle down, you'll feel like you hit a speed wall at maybe like 10mph (in PAS 1) and then when you release the throttle the PAS will take over and help you speed up more.
Ok just took a look. My firmware is 46.8 (CRX10NC4818i132046.8 I believe is the full number). There's tons of different firmwares out there though.
github.com
www.emtbforums.com
Bafang_M500_M600/Firmwares/Official/Motor/m600 at main · OpenSourceEBike/Bafang_M500_M600
Contribute to OpenSourceEBike/Bafang_M500_M600 development by creating an account on GitHub.
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Bafang M500/M600 Tuning & The BESST Tool - EMTB Forums
Thoughts on the 46.8 M600 Firmware.... Coming from 46.7 I think if I had to pick a single word to describe the new firmware, then I'd pick "calm". 46.7 is pretty ridiculous; loads of power, instant ramp, loads of fun but pretty crude. 46.8 feels far, far tamer. Way less of that instant woosh...
www.emtbforums.com
AHicks
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- Region
- USA
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- Snow Bird - Summer S.E. Michigan, Winter Gulf Coast North Central Fl.
Same thing happened on the BBSxx/Ultra's. Everybody had a "best" tune, but nobody knew "best" for what? Clearly there are many different focuses when riding your bike, and we know a road guy's priorities are going to be different from somebody riding mostly off road with an mtb.Ok just took a look. My firmware is 46.8 (CRX10NC4818i132046.8 I believe is the full number). There's tons of different firmwares out there though.
Bafang_M500_M600/Firmwares/Official/Motor/m600 at main · OpenSourceEBike/Bafang_M500_M600
Contribute to OpenSourceEBike/Bafang_M500_M600 development by creating an account on GitHub.
Point is, without a mini review at least, it would be difficult/impossible to prevent taking a step backward when picking out one of these. My thought anyway, FWIW. -Al
yeah for sure. It's just kind of nice that there is a repo with a bunch of official and some unofficial tunes. I wish something like that was around for Ultra... a one stop shop for firmware of sorts. But yeah you'd have to spend a while testing out different tunes to figure out which one fits the individual riding style. May pick away at it over time.
AHicks
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- Region
- USA
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- Snow Bird - Summer S.E. Michigan, Winter Gulf Coast North Central Fl.
I messed with several different tunes early on with the Ultra. That ended when I tried the Frey "Smooth" tune. It worked so well for me in so many conditions, I'm afraid to touch it. Not shy about recommending it to anyone, if for no other reason than to establish a jumping off point. If you have a UART based Ultra, it's darn sure worth trying...
Just bought the Motobecane HAL M600 (43V). They have a preorder special at $3000 that I could not pass up, and they happened to have one in stock for my order to get immediately. I am upgrading from using a BBSHD that I customized the programing installed on a 2007 Motobecane Fantom DS Comp. The M600 motor is super powerful much like my prior BBSHD, more power than I will really ever use. The M600 has a couple outstanding items that need improvement for mountain bike use.
1) PAS level 1 is way too strong. Had the same issue with my BBSHD before reprogramming. The PAS level 1 utilizes 50% of the motors power, which is way too high. What is the point of have 9 PAS levels that bridge between 50% and 100%. I would have thought Bafang would have fixed this by now and finding it sad there is no current programming fix for this.
2) Crank arms are way too long at 170mm. My pedals sit lower than my 26er. Had pedal strikes on very small rocks, making me fearful to tackle any kind of rock garden on these. There is no reason to need 170mm Crank arms on any e-bike. And there does not seem to be anyone manufacturing shorter replacements. 155mm or 160mm would be perfect.
NOTE - if anyone knows where to find shorter crank arms for the M500/M600M800 please let me know.
3) Walk assist is pretty workless on all Bafang motors as it is way to slow, Should be renamed as "Crawl assist"
4) Motor is noisy compared to my BBSHD. I may have been a little spoiled coming from the BBSHD which is basically silent, as the M600 is not loud in anyway. Just more noise than I am use to. Surprised that Bafang couldn't get the same silent effect out of the M600 when these are pretty equivalent motors in power.
1) PAS level 1 is way too strong. Had the same issue with my BBSHD before reprogramming. The PAS level 1 utilizes 50% of the motors power, which is way too high. What is the point of have 9 PAS levels that bridge between 50% and 100%. I would have thought Bafang would have fixed this by now and finding it sad there is no current programming fix for this.
2) Crank arms are way too long at 170mm. My pedals sit lower than my 26er. Had pedal strikes on very small rocks, making me fearful to tackle any kind of rock garden on these. There is no reason to need 170mm Crank arms on any e-bike. And there does not seem to be anyone manufacturing shorter replacements. 155mm or 160mm would be perfect.
NOTE - if anyone knows where to find shorter crank arms for the M500/M600M800 please let me know.
3) Walk assist is pretty workless on all Bafang motors as it is way to slow, Should be renamed as "Crawl assist"
4) Motor is noisy compared to my BBSHD. I may have been a little spoiled coming from the BBSHD which is basically silent, as the M600 is not loud in anyway. Just more noise than I am use to. Surprised that Bafang couldn't get the same silent effect out of the M600 when these are pretty equivalent motors in power.
Check the installed firmware version on your M600 - literally no telling what's on it, and some are better than others RE: Power increase from PAS level to level or on 'not overpowered' lower PAS levels.
Lol on walk assist - someone elsewhere was asking about it on M600/Luna X2 and literally don't know, I think I tried it once then never again. YMMV.
Miranda makes shorter crank arms for M600 as does Luna.
Cranksets - E-BIKE - SHOP
mirandabikestore.com
LUNA X1 and X2 Enduro Short Crank Arms
Providers of quality ebikes, electric bike batteries, motors and components at affordable pricing.
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Thank you! I will give the Miranda’s a try. Luna is out of stock. I ordered the Miranda's in a 155mm. Pricy for just crank arms, but it seems they are the only option currently.Check the installed firmware version on your M600 - literally no telling what's on it, and some are better than others RE: Power increase from PAS level to level or on 'not overpowered' lower PAS levels.
Lol on walk assist - someone elsewhere was asking about it on M600/Luna X2 and literally don't know, I think I tried it once then never again. YMMV.
Miranda makes shorter crank arms for M600 as does Luna.
Cranksets - E-BIKE - SHOP
I've got the Lunas and now a set of 160mm Mirandas. Shipping from the UK to US was quicker than expected.LUNA X1 and X2 Enduro Short Crank Arms
Providers of quality ebikes, electric bike batteries, motors and components at affordable pricing.
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FYI figured I'd mention. Bike came with firmware version 46.8. A friend put 46.7 on about a week ago after I read it was good a firmware for the M600 when the bike is mostly used on road/rec paths (instead of mountain biking).
So far I'd recommend 46.7 for road use. I'm finding it is better on roads after using the version for about 35 miles. Mostly the torque sensor seems more responsive to changes in torque which means you have an easier time controlling speed. This is across really all assist levels. It's actually reasonable to get the controller to only pump a few amps to the motor at even higher assist levels if you don't pedal too hard. I remember 46.8 wanting to take off, no matter what, at higher assist levels. Not sure yet if there is a battery life difference. I spend most of my time in PAS 1 and it will go a bit higher than the 6A cap with 46.8, but only if you really push on the pedals. Normal cruising I think uses slightly less power, if you want, since you can limit speed a bit easier.
So far I'd recommend 46.7 for road use. I'm finding it is better on roads after using the version for about 35 miles. Mostly the torque sensor seems more responsive to changes in torque which means you have an easier time controlling speed. This is across really all assist levels. It's actually reasonable to get the controller to only pump a few amps to the motor at even higher assist levels if you don't pedal too hard. I remember 46.8 wanting to take off, no matter what, at higher assist levels. Not sure yet if there is a battery life difference. I spend most of my time in PAS 1 and it will go a bit higher than the 6A cap with 46.8, but only if you really push on the pedals. Normal cruising I think uses slightly less power, if you want, since you can limit speed a bit easier.
