Bafang Ultra (and BBSxx) Tuning

Gionnirocket

Well-Known Member
When I stated 3-5 , I have mine set on 1-5, not 1-9. I'm on 5 for 80% of my riding. Also, I don't do winter riding. Never could see the fun in that.
I hear you... my winter rides are shorter but I do still enjoy them... especially on a crisp sunny day. Wind protection is key.
And having PAS set to 1 - 5 when you have the ability to have 9 doesn't change the fact that you are leaving possibilities unused.
Simple seems to work for you, probably best to leave it so.
 

TForan

Well-Known Member
I hear you... my winter rides are shorter but I do still enjoy them... especially on a crisp sunny day. Wind protection is key.
And having PAS set to 1 - 5 when you have the ability to have 9 doesn't change the fact that you are leaving possibilities unused.
Simple seems to work for you, probably best to leave it so.
5 is the same as 9 , right ? I think Roshan's tuning is superb, so I don't think I'm missing anything. I do have to wonder about chain life at 2300 watts. And if aren't using that much power, what's the point in having it. And I bet confirmation bias kicks in when you spend a $1000 on upgraded controller.
 

AHicks

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
Snow Bird - Summer S.E. Michigan, Winter Gulf Coast North Central Fl.
Lots of good points of view and a great place for someone like me to learn, and learn i am! It's awesome!

But..... the price of this controller is crazy! In saying that..... "the price" is what someone is willing to pay.... right? 🤪
Terry, we're talking (for the most part) about programming the stock Bafang controller. The one that comes installed when you get a BBSxx or an Ultra.
 

Gionnirocket

Well-Known Member
5 is the same as 9 , right ? I think Roshan's tuning is superb, so I don't think I'm missing anything. I do have to wonder about chain life at 2300 watts. And if aren't using that much power, what's the point in having it. And I bet confirmation bias kicks in when you spend a $1000 on upgraded controller.
Yes 5 an 9 are the same... You're just doing without smaller incremental changes between 1 and 9. I like to keep my cadence and amount of exercise at a steady comfortable pace so having the ability to change gears and PAS makes it nice as my main path has many varying degrees of grade. Also the difference between PAS are smaller and more fluid.
I don't know about the upgraded controller... But the nameplate 750w of the BBS02B are more than enough for my needs...especially if we are using them as a bicycle.
 

AHicks

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
Snow Bird - Summer S.E. Michigan, Winter Gulf Coast North Central Fl.
5 is the same as 9 , right ? I think Roshan's tuning is superb, so I don't think I'm missing anything. I do have to wonder about chain life at 2300 watts. And if aren't using that much power, what's the point in having it. And I bet confirmation bias kicks in when you spend a $1000 on upgraded controller.
Pretty good point. Anyone spending 1000. on an upgraded controller isn't REAL likely going to be paying much attention when it comes to low speed handling. That's fine! I'm happy you can find no room for improvement.

There's no right or wrong here. Just a bunch of folks doing there own thing.....

And oh hell yes. I am a tinkerer! If I feel something's not right, safe bet I'll be messing with it. Applies to just about everything I do/own.
 

Thomas Jaszewski

Well-Known Member
TJ if what you say is true then have the retailer charge me again for the cable and send it back to me. Never was my intention to fleece anyone. Funny that the "amazon cable" I got with the clear see thru shrink on the usb adadpter was wired differently than the one I sent back. I checked each pin location (5) on the 2 programing cable plugs starting at the guide tab to the location on the pc board/ USB adadpter and they were physically not wired the same. Same computer used as before and as soon as I plugged in the new " amazon" cable it automatically filled in the "Com" port setting ( Com3), Baud rate changed to 9600, and software/ data info appeared and I was able to "Read" or "Write" if I chose to. Thanks again for the heads up on the cable I will try to be more careful in the future.
No need to do that. I apologize for being so harsh and implying there was an attempt to fleece a seller. In my opinion, even if a bit frustrating, a non-working component should be returned and not be disassembled or altered. I did see a Luna cable back in 2016 that shorted out the USB port and trashed a laptop. I've never seen it again, except with homemade cables, but the lesson remains and the best practice, to me, is for the seller to test and troubleshoot.

As an aside, I'm always a little extra careful with following wiring instructions. Many devices use brown and blue for red and white!
 

Terry777

Active Member
Terry, we're talking (for the most part) about programming the stock Bafang controller. The one that comes installed when you get a BBSxx or an Ultra.
That's what i am interested in. I have the Ultra on mine. I think i'll be jumping in real soon. I am a tinkerer too and it seems if you are willing to tinker a bit you can get the Ultra to be very close to perfect for your own riding style. I use the throttle a LOT too so am interested in fine tuning it as much as i can. I am 100% doing my own also. It's a lot of reading too but when you start and start getting your head around it it makes sense. Having this place to discuss the process is awesome too. If only just to bounce ideas off each other or whatever.
 

AHicks

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
Snow Bird - Summer S.E. Michigan, Winter Gulf Coast North Central Fl.
Just a thought.. but on Page 1 have you tried increasing the current for PAS 1 and lowering the current for PAS 2
To be honest, I haven't really gotten in to it too far yet. Focus has been on what, exactly, I want to do. Still in the mulling it over phase. That said, to get the high PAS 1, low PAS2 overlap I'm thinking of, my first guess is this is going to be on the last/torque sensing page. I want the PAS1 full Kg higher than the PAS2 start Kg (Kg = pedal pressure) - I think! It might/could be starting and full current values as well. That's why I say, I've got more reading to do....

I'll post more when I have it figured out. -Al
 
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vincent

Well-Known Member
I beg to disagree
The entire reason I got the archon controller was to have super smooth pas in low levels
I did not have my power turned up, just wanted the best controller for smoothness in 1,2,


And I have ridden Roshan programming on the ultra and it does not compare To the archon smoothness

The fact tforan rides in level 5 all the time perfectly proves ahicks point we all want different things from our bikes

Mine has never been in level 5
 

AHicks

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
Snow Bird - Summer S.E. Michigan, Winter Gulf Coast North Central Fl.
I beg to disagree
The entire reason I got the archon controller was to have super smooth pas in low levels
I did not have my power turned up, just wanted the best controller for smoothness in 1,2,


And I have ridden Roshan programming on the ultra and it does not compare To the archon smoothness

The fact tforan rides in level 5 all the time perfectly proves ahicks point we all want different things from our bikes

Mine has never been in level 5
Now you have my curiosity up. I am SO interested in what you see/feel in PAS1 and 2. Is there a chance you are running a display that lets you see exactly what is going on for wattage in use? This is why I changed over to the 750C. It offers the best resolution in this regard, easily matching that of the speedo, where the stock display (DPC-18) made this difficult to say the least.

I don't know if my PAS 4 or 5 even works. If I'm feeling the need for speed, I put the hammer down with the throttle!
 

TForan

Well-Known Member
I sure can see some aftermarket tuning with the throttle. Way too jumpy in stock configuration. I took mine off the first week. I also think it's smoother in PAS 3-5 and I think that's why I'm happy with it. I use 1 and 2 about 5% of the time.
 

vincent

Well-Known Member
this bike is really smooth now, maybe not as smooth as a brose but close

but think my display is the dpc-18, it is the stock one for ww, will get the new one when it comes out
but think it shows a graph but not super clear on how many, i may run out for a quick 20 miles today and will pay more attention, not sure if this smoothness can be duplicated with the stock controller
i did some programming on it and it was fine stock but it is definitely smoother now, no comparison

and i purposedly rode a biktrix bike only to test their programming but did not think it was a lot better for the lower pas levels , it may be fine if you are riding wide open at high speeds but that is not where i wanted changes
i wanted the low speeds to be slow and smooth taking off and got that with the archon

will post back if i get to ride today
 

TForan

Well-Known Member
this bike is really smooth now, maybe not as smooth as a brose but close

but think my display is the dpc-18, it is the stock one for ww, will get the new one when it comes out
but think it shows a graph but not super clear on how many, i may run out for a quick 20 miles today and will pay more attention, not sure if this smoothness can be duplicated with the stock controller
i did some programming on it and it was fine stock but it is definitely smoother now, no comparison

and i purposedly rode a biktrix bike only to test their programming but did not think it was a lot better for the lower pas levels , it may be fine if you are riding wide open at high speeds but that is not where i wanted changes
i wanted the low speeds to be slow and smooth taking off and got that with the archon

will post back if i get to ride today
Yup, we have totally different wants and needs. PAS 5 Baby !
 

Gionnirocket

Well-Known Member
I guess some's idea of smooth and well tuned is understandable if only applied to 25% of available Pas settings and no throttle.. probably a bit of confirmation bias at play. 🙃
 

TForan

Well-Known Member
I guess some's idea of smooth and well tuned is understandable if only applied to 25% of available Pas settings and no throttle.. probably a bit of confirmation bias at play. 🙃
some's ? I don't have use of the lower settings in my particular situation. Please stop opining on bikes you never rode.
 

Gionnirocket

Well-Known Member
some's ? I don't have use of the lower settings in my particular situation. Please stop opining on bikes you never rode.
I wasn't commenting on a bike that I never road... more so the rider who doesn't understand that a jerky throttle that is better off removed or that the lower PAS he avoids where finesse and fine tuning is most critical may not fully understand what a well tuned controller is. You were probably correct in your earlier statement in that you don't know what you are missing, But a smooth PAS 5 is superb and that's all that you need so I guess the rest of us are doing something wrong.
But since you brought it up.. you did comment on the controller upgrade you never experienced.
 

Gionnirocket

Well-Known Member
I did a little reading and if it is as I assume the achron controller can quite possibly be a significant improvement. From what I can tell without wasting to much time since I don't own an Ultra at the moment and not in the market to is that it operates using sign wave technology and this can greatly improve control and efficiency. When I was leaving the electrical industry 20 something years ago I worked on a few projects replacing the controllers on some very large AC motors to variable speed sign wave units and speaking with the engineers involved the upfront cost would be recouped through savings in efficiency. Now I realize that this is quite a bit different than what is being discussed here, but motor control using this tech is definitely an improvement. My aquarium pumps use this tech and the control is impressive. 20 years later I'm surprised it's not the standard.
At one time in my life I was an early adopter and enjoyed new toys, but at this stage I'm more easy flow and practical so I don't think it's worth the $1000 price tag especially since you are essentially paying for the R&D at this time and the hardware cost is probably comparable to the standard controller. And though this is a welcomed advance it's not like the current setup is unusable or total crap. That said it's definitely worth more than the $1000 extra some pay for secret firmware on the stock controller that as far as I can tell is to make the interface proprietary and used as a marketing tool.
My 2.78 cents
 

AHicks

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
Snow Bird - Summer S.E. Michigan, Winter Gulf Coast North Central Fl.
To the best of my understanding, there's square wave, and there's sine wave. Every square wave I've run runs with a ringing sound, and, there's a noticeable buzz as you accelerate from a stop. My understanding is the sine wave provides a much "softer" power pulse to the motor. They're much quieter in operation, and they provide smoother acceleration from a stop. So, that in mind, I'm wondering if the stock Bafang Ultra and BBSxx controllers aren't sine wave as well?

My understanding of these high end/aftermarket controllers was that they are the product of software written to a MUCH higher (not to mention newer) standard. Keeping in mind Bafang hasn't changed their software for several years now, it's not hard to consider that a company not resting on their butt has had plenty of time to improve on what Bafang started with. I can understand these aftermarket companies wanting to capitalize on their development work, but at the same time find it unfortunate their work isn't open source like Bafang's.

We KNOW Stefan Penov was able to improve on the older BBSxx configuration software with a total rewrite there. Hopefully us poor folk :) will soon be able to capitalize on newly written Ultra software written with some of the newer tech. used in the aftermarket controllers, and shared as freeware. Yes, wishful thinking for sure! -Al
 

TForan

Well-Known Member
I wasn't commenting on a bike that I never road... more so the rider who doesn't understand that a jerky throttle that is better off removed or that the lower PAS he avoids where finesse and fine tuning is most critical may not fully understand what a well tuned controller is. You were probably correct in your earlier statement in that you don't know what you are missing, But a smooth PAS 5 is superb and that's all that you need so I guess the rest of us are doing something wrong.
But since you brought it up.. you did comment on the controller upgrade you never experienced.

Have you ever ridden a stock Ultra from Biktrix ? Of course you haven't . I think if you did, you would wonder why you would want to change anything. And as far as throttle go, I have no use for them. It's a pet peeve of mine to see a rider running strictly on throttle on a shared path. Don't turn a bicycle into an electric scooter.
 

Gionnirocket

Well-Known Member
Have you ever ridden a stock Ultra from Biktrix ? Of course you haven't . I think if you did, you would wonder why you would want to change anything. And as far as throttle go, I have no use for them. It's a pet peeve of mine to see a rider running strictly on throttle on a shared path. Don't turn a bicycle into an electric scooter.
I agree on the throttle... But I do use mine occasionally as an added assist in certain situations and when I do it's smooth and useful.
I'm sure the Biktrix setup is decent and as previously stated there's no need to run out for the latest upgrades. But using your own statements on PAS 1,2 and throttle... it's not anymore than anyone else can accomplish with the stock firmware... If not less.