Bafang Ultra (and BBSxx) Tuning

AHicks

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
Snow Bird - Summer S.E. Michigan, Winter Gulf Coast North Central Fl.
Agree on all points. My real emphasis though, is not on the actual settings. It's developing a better idea/understanding regarding how those settings have been/should be arrived at. The logic behind the settings if you will - with examples. For those wanting to get in and figure out what's going to work best FOR THEIR APPLICATION, I'm of the notion this kind of information is invaluable.

Everyone is saying "look, I've come up with this cool setup that really works great". When considering just one of these articles, the issue is there's little or no information regarding what the focus was. Was it low speed performance (e.g. for picking your way through traffic on a multi use trail and low speed trail work), riding out on the open road with a fit rider, mountain biking, what? Where was this writer's emphasis? What kind of traits do they find favorable with this hot setup? It's not until you've looked through several different viewpoints that you start to see each is different. That's when you can start making better informed decisions regarding what direction YOU want to go in. Maybe picking and chosing YOUR settings from several different articles. That's my thought anyway. Very happy to discuss the point.

So, that in mind, I'll repeat, it's not so much about the settings each writer has arrived at. It's how/why they arrived at those settings. The logic behind them. That's where I'm coming from. And the BBSxx articles I've referenced include that logic.

Stay safe,
-Al
 

Gionnirocket

Well-Known Member
This is where the manufacturer can/should really help.
Everything out there is what people have hacked into and deduced from trial and error. Some settings are straightforward and can be deduced by their name... But there's others with no info at all. In the end without manufacturer documentation we are all assuming... though at this point it's safe to say that enough people have experimented so most assumptions are probably accurate.
What really piss's me off about Bafang is that the BBS* series is a DIY product. How can you sell this type of product with no comprehensive owners manual. It really is a Chinese thing... smh...
 

AHicks

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
Snow Bird - Summer S.E. Michigan, Winter Gulf Coast North Central Fl.
This is where the manufacturer can/should really help.
Everything out there is what people have hacked into and deduced from trial and error. Some settings are straightforward and can be deduced by their name... But there's others with no info at all. In the end without manufacturer documentation we are all assuming... though at this point it's safe to say that enough people have experimented so most assumptions are probably accurate.
What really piss's me off about Bafang is that the BBS* series is a DIY product. How can you sell this type of product with no comprehensive owners manual. It really is a Chinese thing... smh...
Agree on the "Chinese thing". The KT controllers I'm so fond of have been an education in progress for quite some time. Same reason - questionable "chinglish" translation. And they are NO help! Thankfully there's not THAT much to them. Not when compared to an Ultra with torque sensing anyway! -Al
 

Gionnirocket

Well-Known Member
Agree on the "Chinese thing". The KT controllers I'm so fond of have been an education in progress for quite some time. Same reason - questionable "chinglish" translation. And they are NO help! Thankfully there's not THAT much to them. Not when compared to an Ultra with torque sensing anyway! -Al
Even when compared to the BBS02B with only the base cadence sensor. I tried a little more testing with some of the settings you prefer such as 100% speed on all PAS on page one and it just doesn't translate over. I end up with way too much assistance, ghost pedaling and battery drain.
 

TForan

Well-Known Member
I CANNOT believe another thread that had nothing at all to do with throttle has gotten onto throttle vs pas AGAIN

seriously just don’t post on this thread , you have not added ONE thing to this discussion about different parameters for programming

do you have nothing else to do?
we are all aware of your thoughts on throttle - got it a million times over
So, I should put you down as a yes for throttles ?
 

AHicks

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
Snow Bird - Summer S.E. Michigan, Winter Gulf Coast North Central Fl.
Even when compared to the BBS02B with only the base cadence sensor. I tried a little more testing with some of the settings you prefer such as 100% speed on all PAS on page one and it just doesn't translate over. I end up with way too much assistance, ghost pedaling and battery drain.
Re: that 100% thing on the 1st page, it's not just me that's using it. If you read through all of those articles I've referenced, you'll see there are several different guys using that idea. In fact, if there's a consensus on any settings, that's one of them, and it seems to carry through both the BBSxx and Ultra riders. That said, if you tried it and didn't like it, there's nothing wrong with that. There no I'm right, you're wrong to it! Only what works for you, and I'd like to add, the why. -Al
 

Gionnirocket

Well-Known Member
Re: that 100% thing on the 1st page, it's not just me that's using it. If you read through all of those articles I've referenced, you'll see there are several different guys using that idea. In fact, if there's a consensus on any settings, that's one of them, and it seems to carry through both the BBSxx and Ultra riders. That said, if you tried it and didn't like it, there's nothing wrong with that. There no I'm right, you're wrong to it! Only what works for you, and I'd like to add, the why. -Al
I've yet to see this mentioned when researching about the BBSxx... It is in the Biktrix article which is for the Ultra and if you ask me is flawed on multiple accounts.
If you come across another article where you say that setting is used with the BBSxx I'd be interested in reading it if you can post a link.
 

AHicks

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
Snow Bird - Summer S.E. Michigan, Winter Gulf Coast North Central Fl.

Gionnirocket

Well-Known Member
Here you go-

and the settings in purple here:
Thanks!
I did read that article and forgot about the Kepler (purple) settings as they are aggressive in general. For example 30 for Start Current and 6 for Slow Start on page 2
Also the author did not try those setting and doesn't recommend using them without lowering overall current as they are possibly hardware damaging. The Kepler settings are far from what I am trying to accomplish (and I assumed you as well) and are geared more towards the younger trail riding crowd. I'm in search of easy peasy gradual and smooth.

Curious MR. @Thomas Jaszewski... you as the most experienced with the BBSxx. Have you any experience or seen anyone using this profile?

edit: I remembered Thomas loaded up some profiles: https://electricbikereview.com/forums/threads/bbs-settings-for-a-smoother-ride.37833/post-335247
Really not the consensus and seems as I assumed that it is for the aggressive rider.
 

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Thomas Jaszewski

Well-Known Member
I’ve always used EM3ev settings. Good for me since 2014. Unfortunately I’ve seen more than a few bricked or fried motors when pushed to hard with experimental setting. EM3ev BBSHD setting rocked my BBSHD to 33mph. I’ve regressed and gone back to my 350w and 750w BBSXX.
 

Gionnirocket

Well-Known Member
I’ve always used EM3ev settings. Good for me since 2014. Unfortunately I’ve seen more than a few bricked or fried motors when pushed to hard with experimental setting. EM3ev BBSHD setting rocked my BBSHD to 33mph. I’ve regressed and gone back to my 350w and 750w BBSXX.
I don't think the settings in question are necessarily experimental.. though they do seem to be tuned to the aggressive rider. As far as I can tell Kepler and Luna are all about high performance/competition riding.
After reading all that I could find I did my own tweaks and ended up very near EM3ev settings myself.. though I feel mine are slightly less aggressive and tailored to meet my needs for the particular trails I ride.
Pas 1-2 very slow and controlled, especially useful when navigating tight wooded areas with thick brush on either side. 3 - 7mph
3...my get rolling level and what most would use as PAS 1
4- 7 for my 8 - 18mph rail trail and most used pavement setting
8.. High speed for those moments I'm feeling froggy low-mid 20mph
9 full speed/power for throttle in all PAS and if I'm feeling suicidally brave.. Up to 30mph
 

AHicks

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
Snow Bird - Summer S.E. Michigan, Winter Gulf Coast North Central Fl.
I've read the M600 is going CANbus, and will not be customer programmable for that reason. Dealers only (right now anyway). Have to assume the Ultra would be the same. Where did you see one of those w/Canbuss? Doesn't sound like very good news.
 

voidedwarranty

Active Member
The new Sondors bikes all use CANbus protocol. Of course none of them have actually shipped yet🙄

WattWagons has stated that CANbus compatibility with the Archon X1 should be available in Q1 of 2021
 
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vincent

Well-Known Member
That is terrible news that things won’t be programmable anymore, that is the main draw of bafang what in the world are they thinking
 

voidedwarranty

Active Member
That is terrible news that things won’t be programmable anymore, that is the main draw of bafang what in the world are they thinking
I'm sure they will be programmable but it will be done with different cables and different software at worst.

Cars have been CANbus for decades I don't see any shortage of tuned cars out there.

I was merely wondering if anyone knew first hand if the current cable and software have worked
 

Thomas Jaszewski

Well-Known Member
I'm sure they will be programmable but it will be done with different cables and different software at worst.

Cars have been CANbus for decades I don't see any shortage of tuned cars out there.
I'm afraid it won't be as easy as you think. It requires proprietary connectors and devices as well as needing to have a Bafang business account. They have never liked customer tweaking of programming. Early on dealers leaked the info and folks on endless_sphere sorted the settings and figured out how to make a programming cable that none of us could buy.
 

vincent

Well-Known Member
tried to see the watts yesterday while riding with the archon to give some feedback, dont know how much this will help stock controllers

did some slow start from stop/riding in level 1 and 2 to see what the watts are going

this is light to medium pedal push to get the bike going, not huge push to kick the torque in

seems like level 1 is about 100 watts and level 2 150 or so

now this jumps up to maybe 350-400 i think in level 1 if i push the pedals hard and 500 in level 2
hope that helps

but this controller is really different, very smooth integration of when the pas kicks in
 

Terry777

Active Member
Guys, I'm pretty sure the Bafang Ultra programming is the same as it comes from the factory, no matter what bike it's installed in. As a (very curious) new owner myself, I'm finding that good/very relevant info is being spread from one end of EBR to the other in each of the brand forums that are using the Ultra motor (eg. Biktrix, Luna, Fey, M2S, Rize, and many others). My idea here is to try to provide a central location for some of the great ideas I've read about.

After riding your new bike for a bit, I think many will agree that the software can be improved on - considerably. You'll likely find the degree of controller adjustability one of the neatest features that come standard with every one of these motors. It needn't be difficult either.

My initial thoughts revolved around a throttle that I thought could be tamed down, and the torque assist was too much at low speeds, allowing just ghost pedaling at speeds under about 10mph, even in PAS 1. Both turned out to be easy fixes - and increased battery mileage noticeably....

Here's the cable I used. Note it's 18" length. I bought a 6' USB extension at Walmart (sorry no link there) so I can just pull the bike up to the work bench and plug it in easily.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B083HRXFL3/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o05_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Software, oh boy. I did do a bunch of reading on the topic to try and get my head wrapped around the topic. What I learned is that the BBSxx software is 100% compatible with the Ultra, but that software does not have the 4th "torque" tab. You'll see what I'm talking about when you start messing with it. Here's the file you need for the Ultra-


You'll find Roshan from Biktrix and Karl from Luna have spent a lot of time messing with these big Bafangs. They know what they are talking about - and they have some details regarding each of the variable parameters there are. What they do, and where they set them. I would pay way more attention to what they have to say about the parameters than how they set them. You'll find personal priorities are all over the ball park here, with way different settings prefered by road bike guys, aggressive mountain bikers, and even hybrid riders riding a road/trail setup (like I ride).

That said, here's some reading material regarding tuning your Ultra -


Also helpful-

Edited to include another good read:

Do some google searching. There's a TON of info available on this topic! You Tube is over flowing! Just remember that these guys may have tuning priorities that are going to be WAY different from yours. Resist the temptation of installing ALL of their ideas on YOUR bike! -Al
Does the Ultra software you link to here just bring up the 4th torque tab your talking about when you load it up. I used the software for the HD but it only had the 3 tabs to set up. I’m on my phone right now so can’t check for myself. Thanks
 

AHicks

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
Snow Bird - Summer S.E. Michigan, Winter Gulf Coast North Central Fl.
Does the Ultra software you link to here just bring up the 4th torque tab your talking about when you load it up. I used the software for the HD but it only had the 3 tabs to set up. I’m on my phone right now so can’t check for myself. Thanks
Here's a link to the software with all 4 tabs