Bafang Ultra (and BBSxx) Tuning

Terry777

Active Member
I hear you... my winter rides are shorter but I do still enjoy them... especially on a crisp sunny day. Wind protection is key.
And having PAS set to 1 - 5 when you have the ability to have 9 doesn't change the fact that you are leaving possibilities unused.
Simple seems to work for you, probably best to leave it so.
I
Here's a link to the software with all 4 tabs

Awesome! I’ll get in about them soon. Thanks loads! 👍
 

voidedwarranty

Active Member
In regards to Watt Wagons. @pushkar just released a video on youtube with a simple walk through of his programming user interface and how it works. Much simpler than the current open source programming. Uses sliders for different parameters and he explains pretty well what it all means. Frankly I like this setup better as I don't need to get in to the real nitty gritty of customizing my ride and guessing what everything means. I'm still just stuck waiting for a bike that will be using CANbus and then waiting on the availability of the X1 for said CANbus.

On a side note, I don't fully understand the reasoning from Bafang as to the need for CANbus in the first place. I'm an auto technician currently working for BMW. There are multiple complex networks for CANbus communication in those car for good reason. The high end cars like X7 have almost 40 different control modules where CANbus makes sense. There is really not a ton of information in an ebike necessitating this type of comms protocol. Throttle input, torque sensor, cadence, and speed. Motor inhibitor. I mean maybe I'm wrong but CAN just seems like overkill. And in the case of BMW, over engineering tends to lead to unnecessary complications and problems.

 
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Gionnirocket

Well-Known Member
In regards to Watt Wagons. He just released a video on youtube with a simple walk through of his programming user interface and how it works. Much simpler than the current open source programming. Uses sliders for different parameters and he explains pretty well what it all means. Frankly I like this setup better as I don't need to get in to the real nitty gritty of customizing my ride and guessing what everything means. I'm still just stuck waiting for a bike that will be using CANbus and then waiting on the availability of the X1 for said CANbus.

On a side note, I don't fully understand the reasoning from Bafang as to the need for CANbus in the first place. I'm an auto technician currently working for BMW. There are multiple complex networks for CANbus communication in those car for good reason. The high end cars like X7 have almost 40 different control modules where CANbus makes sense. There is really not a ton of information in an ebike necessitating this type of comms protocol. Throttle input, torque sensor, cadence, and speed. Motor inhibitor. I mean maybe I'm wrong but CAN just seems like overkill.

They need to spell Organization correctly on the registration page 🙃
 

AHicks

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
Snow Bird - Summer S.E. Michigan, Winter Gulf Coast North Central Fl.
voidedwarranty - for what pushkar gets for that controller, not saying it's not "deluxe", only that I think I can get along just fine with the "outdated" Uart based software that comes from Bafang. It's more than ample when it comes to anything I've wanted to do to date for sure! Like you, there's about a 99.99% chance I don't need, or want, to know everything there is to every piece of it. From what I've seen to date, there's pretty logical explanations available for all the key pieces I'm interested in. To be fair, it does take some the patience to do some reading. -Al
 

voidedwarranty

Active Member
voidedwarranty - for what pushkar gets for that controller, not saying it's not "deluxe", only that I think I can get along just fine with the "outdated" Uart based software that comes from Bafang. It's more than ample when it comes to anything I've wanted to do to date for sure! Like you, there's about a 99.99% chance I don't need, or want, to know everything there is to every piece of it. From what I've seen to date, there's pretty logical explanations available for all the key pieces I'm interested in. To be fair, it does take some the patience to do some reading. -Al

I don't disagree. If I could, I would certainly go that route until it I found I wanted more power than the amp limits of the stock controller would allow. When I do get the X1 I'll be going for the full 2300 watt nominal spec.
 
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Terry777

Active Member
I don't disagree. If I could, I would certainly go that route until it found I wanted more power than the amp limits of the stock controller would allow. When I do get the X1 I'll be going for the full 2300 watt nominal spec.
So they manage to get 2300w from the Bafang Ultramax?
 

voidedwarranty

Active Member

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AHicks

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
Snow Bird - Summer S.E. Michigan, Winter Gulf Coast North Central Fl.
Warranty at that kind of power level might be a little skinny.... If you smoke something, it's going to be on you. Full throttle starts in too high a gear, extended climbs in too high a gear, even extended high speed runs are all going to let the smoke out of something....

This is about being a power junky. A 1500w Ultra will do anything asked of it pretty easily. Purpose for adding more? If you need to, go for it. As a member of the 60's muscle car generation, I'd be the last to condemn somebody for going this route. People ask for more power, here you go! Old fart now, questioning the wisdom of such a move. Just like my dad did when I bought that GTO..... -Al
 

Terry777

Active Member
I would hate to “give it the beans” and just get a wee squeak and a puff of smoke! It would be a c#%t to pedal home too! It’s actually alright the way it is. We’ll see if I still feel that way after a few months.... I am a tinkerer! Lol
 

Gionnirocket

Well-Known Member
Re: that 100% thing on the 1st page, it's not just me that's using it. If you read through all of those articles I've referenced, you'll see there are several different guys using that idea. In fact, if there's a consensus on any settings, that's one of them, and it seems to carry through both the BBSxx and Ultra riders. That said, if you tried it and didn't like it, there's nothing wrong with that. There no I'm right, you're wrong to it! Only what works for you, and I'd like to add, the why. -Al
I decided to take a third look at using the universal 100% speed setting on page one after thinking about it for a while. In my first two attempts I hadn't lowered some of the current settings and other settings on Tab 2 to fit my needs.
Now that I have I do find that you can achieve somewhat smoother operation. The part that still doesn't fit my needs is not enough tapering off of power as I gain speed... like when going down a decline in grade.
I understand that I can switch PAS to a lower setting at that point... But with the trails I ride i find that I have to change too often for my liking using the 100%.
That said I'm continuing to experiment to see if I can find a happy medium between the two approaches.
Keeping the wheels and gears turning here.
 

AHicks

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
Snow Bird - Summer S.E. Michigan, Winter Gulf Coast North Central Fl.
Wheels still turning here too. Pondering my next move here at about 250 miles. I spent some time reading and now looking at the Pedal Assist page, the "current decay".

My PAS 1 seems to top out at 156 watts frequently, unless I'm pedaling HARD (when I should be going to PAS 2). Looking at the notes for this "current decay" in the "Hacker's Guide", it's supposed to "determine how high up in the pedal cadence range where it (the controller) starts to reduce power (to the motor)". "The lower the setting is the sooner the drive unit (controller) will start cutting back on the power (to the motor) as you pedal faster".

Checking the default value of 4, confirming that's where mine is set, I see that others are using a setting of 6 or 8. That'll be my next move. My logic here, if I'm pedaling faster I believe the controller is cutting the power back too soon. Would like to see what happens if I raise that value to 8. Reason I'm not using 6 to start with is because I want to be able to easily see/feel the different setting here. Thinking a change to 6 might be too subtle, making it more difficult to judge the result of the change.

Regarding your thoughts, my issue seems to be the exact opposite from a very similar issue you are thinking of? -Al
 

Gionnirocket

Well-Known Member
Wheels still turning here too. Pondering my next move here at about 250 miles. I spent some time reading and now looking at the Pedal Assist page, the "current decay".

My PAS 1 seems to top out at 156 watts frequently, unless I'm pedaling HARD (when I should be going to PAS 2). Looking at the notes for this "current decay" in the "Hacker's Guide", it's supposed to "determine how high up in the pedal cadence range where it (the controller) starts to reduce power (to the motor)". "The lower the setting is the sooner the drive unit (controller) will start cutting back on the power (to the motor) as you pedal faster".

Checking the default value of 4, confirming that's where mine is set, I see that others are using a setting of 6 or 8. That'll be my next move. My logic here, if I'm pedaling faster I believe the controller is cutting the power back too soon. Would like to see what happens if I raise that value to 8. Reason I'm not using 6 to start with is because I want to be able to easily see/feel the different setting here. Thinking a change to 6 might be too subtle, making it more difficult to judge the result of the change.

Regarding your thoughts, my issue seems to be the exact opposite from a very similar issue you are thinking of? -Al
Yeah I think we may want different things from our rides. I'm looking for as little motor interaction as possible, and power changes as automatic as possible. I am pretty happy with my settings, but I found your approach interesting and it does add a level of smoothness at the expense of automation... Again for how I ride.
I get the feeling that you are looking for a more continuous assist on your ride.
And I do the same when making changes to some settngs as too small of an increment leaves you with too subtle a change to inform. Then I go back and dial it in with smaller changes once I know where I want to land.
 

AHicks

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
Snow Bird - Summer S.E. Michigan, Winter Gulf Coast North Central Fl.
Change above didn't work as expected, at least nothing I could see from the short ride I went on. Will keep an eye on it. Back to the drawing board.

As far as expectations, I'm pedaling from the time I leave unless going down hill. With the 3" tires running at a comparitively low pressure, rolling resistance is quite high. So yes, it's pulling wattage nearly the whole time I'm pedaling, though it varies from 25 watts to 150w, or more if going up a hill. The fact it's so rolling here doesn't help. Seems level spots are unusual, and don't last long. You're constantly going up or down to some degree. -Al
 

Gionnirocket

Well-Known Member
One conclusion that I'm coming to is that the settngs names and/or scale aren't completely accurate... And/or that the program running the controller interpolates the settings differently than anticipated.
One example is that if I set my top speed to 30mph and PAS 1 to 50% for both Current and Speed ..depending on what gear I'm in the motor will stop assisting at different speeds using the same cadence on flat ground.
 

AHicks

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
Snow Bird - Summer S.E. Michigan, Winter Gulf Coast North Central Fl.
Rome wasn't built in a day I guess. The KT controller doesn't have near the adjustments this one has, and it took me a while to figure THAT one out....

We'll get there...
 

Gionnirocket

Well-Known Member
Rome wasn't built in a day I guess. The KT controller doesn't have near the adjustments this one has, and it took me a while to figure THAT one out....

We'll get there...
I'm not too concerned as it does what I need and more than well enough... As discussed, we are tinker'rs and this keeps me interested.
 

tinasdude

Active Member
Are you still using % speed at 100? That never allowed me to reach and hold a comfortable cadence. It would just keep going. My thoughts for % speed is to use lower than 100% to control the cadence in each PAS level. % speed being a % of the motor rpm. I have been using lower current levels and lower % speed values and have made the initial PAS levels have a flow to them that works for how I want to ride on the road and paths. I like a slow progression. I am old and I'm not in any kind of hurry. 1st 6 PAS levels follow that thinking. The last 3 PAS levels are higher settings evenly spaced in power up to 100% in PAS 9. This tinkering was done with a BBSHD. In the woods I would use throttle an pedal for perfect control. I have already ordered my Eggrider to use with the Ultra when it arrives. I am waiting for my Frey and look forward to reading some of your thoughts on torque settings.
 

Gionnirocket

Well-Known Member
Are you still using % speed at 100? That never allowed me to reach and hold a comfortable cadence. It would just keep going. My thoughts for % speed is to use lower than 100% to control the cadence in each PAS level. % speed being a % of the motor rpm. I have been using lower current levels and lower % speed values and have made the initial PAS levels have a flow to them that works for how I want to ride on the road and paths. I like a slow progression. I am old and I'm not in any kind of hurry. 1st 6 PAS levels follow that thinking. The last 3 PAS levels are higher settings evenly spaced in power up to 100% in PAS 9. This tinkering was done with a BBSHD. In the woods I would use throttle an pedal for perfect control. I have already ordered my Eggrider to use with the Ultra when it arrives. I am waiting for my Frey and look forward to reading some of your thoughts on torque settings.
I agree... The 100% speed setting is not how I like to ride and find it too intrusive and using more battery than I need.
After trying multiple different variations of the 100% Speed setting, I ended up going back to something similar to my original set of settings found here.
I'm still tweaking and may post an update if I find something worth mentioning.