BarnBoy’s 24V EVG Battery Improvement Project…

Shaunpro3

New Member
Region
USA
City
Naples FL
it's nice to see a well documented project completed and working.
You sound very educated and maybe able to help me which might possibly help yourself , helping me 😋

So,
I have a EBIKE kit, 48v 1000w and trying to for 1 thing to extend my range and the speed I traveled as sure ya know, the faster ya go, the shorter distance able to reach.

So,
I recently learned of and bought a 48v DC PMA ( permanent magnet alternator ) and dreamed how wonderful it could be...

At 1st was dreaming of running my bike off the PMA w no batteries.
Then woke up a bit and determined that if could just keep my batt.s charged better , enabling greater range and better speeds I would be so happy...

I am now seeing it's not so easy !
So to not overcharge my batt.s , I got a charge controller and relay that are set to 55v low and 57.6v high.
I just got batt.s fully charged and I tested this morning going about 17 mph only to find I wasn't able to get as far as usual !
So charged batt s again and un hooked the controller & relay running PMA directly to batt.s .....as while riding I watched my voltage meter and noticed I didn't go fast enough to produce but about 48 - 50 volts ...so trying to do better I only went about 12 mph on way back,. Did make it home and still had some power left...

Not sure if ya know of these pma yet, I sure hope so..
I was wondering of relay wiring, passive or active, rather running the hot or neg. From pma to the relay,
My pma is a super core DC 2 terminal unit at 1800 amps max. And when used and has a load, the pma becomes harder to turn.

So, I am guessing my 1000w bike uses more power than can be made going the speeds I'm able to travel. Guessing. 🥴

If you have any suggestions or referrals I'm so greatful !
And today I thought of a diff. Way that may work better.
Instead of trying to reach power needed to charge my batt s with the pma,
Why not only worry of producing 12 strong volts, hook up a 12v inverter and run the household charger used each day..?

Guessing that prob. Won't work for reasons not considered...?

Again I Thank You !

Shaunpro3
 

Art Deco

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
Selinsgrove Pennsylvania
You sound very educated and maybe able to help me which might possibly help yourself , helping me 😋

So,
I have a EBIKE kit, 48v 1000w and trying to for 1 thing to extend my range and the speed I traveled as sure ya know, the faster ya go, the shorter distance able to reach.

So,
I recently learned of and bought a 48v DC PMA ( permanent magnet alternator ) and dreamed how wonderful it could be...

At 1st was dreaming of running my bike off the PMA w no batteries.
Then woke up a bit and determined that if could just keep my batt.s charged better , enabling greater range and better speeds I would be so happy...

I am now seeing it's not so easy !
So to not overcharge my batt.s , I got a charge controller and relay that are set to 55v low and 57.6v high.
I just got batt.s fully charged and I tested this morning going about 17 mph only to find I wasn't able to get as far as usual !
So charged batt s again and un hooked the controller & relay running PMA directly to batt.s .....as while riding I watched my voltage meter and noticed I didn't go fast enough to produce but about 48 - 50 volts ...so trying to do better I only went about 12 mph on way back,. Did make it home and still had some power left...

Not sure if ya know of these pma yet, I sure hope so..
I was wondering of relay wiring, passive or active, rather running the hot or neg. From pma to the relay,
My pma is a super core DC 2 terminal unit at 1800 amps max. And when used and has a load, the pma becomes harder to turn.

So, I am guessing my 1000w bike uses more power than can be made going the speeds I'm able to travel. Guessing. 🥴

If you have any suggestions or referrals I'm so greatful !
And today I thought of a diff. Way that may work better.
Instead of trying to reach power needed to charge my batt s with the pma,
Why not only worry of producing 12 strong volts, hook up a 12v inverter and run the household charger used each day..?

Guessing that prob. Won't work for reasons not considered...?

Again I Thank You !

Shaunpro3
Sorry, that is way beyond my limited knowledge. I had to pay close attention to even understand the original post.
 

Shaunpro3

New Member
Region
USA
City
Naples FL
i just figured it out... the only answer to solve my problem is to have 2 batteries, one to power the bike and the other to be charged during..
then switch them ... over and over... what ya think of this wonderful solution my mind proposes...? just finding a answer that solves my issue when there is no other seams so good to me.. lolol
 

BarnBoy

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
Pleasanton, CA
@Shaunpro3 - not to be rude, but please post in your own thread for your own topic. Do not hijack others. Worst case Private Message (PM) the person of interest to have a conversation!!

Next, learn basic Physics; especially the topic of CONSERVATION OF ENERGY. Every stage or transfer of energy you mention in your machine is yet another loss of power or energy. You are seeking the “perpetual energy (or motion) machine”. Keep your eyes open on Alibaba, I have seen them posted and manufactured in fine respectable places like Pakistan…. (was BIG into Stirling Engines….) 🤪

Sorry grumpy old engineer that has zero time for debates nor education for perpetual energy fools. If you are serious, research things like super-conductivity. Yep, even that copper wire you use is a resistor and thus a loss element. But I imagine from what you described, FRICTION is your biggest killer…..
-BB

PS- I have some EVG updates with the LED light to post…. (Smoke Alert!)
 

Shaunpro3

New Member
Region
USA
City
Naples FL
i ban see your knowledgeable.. any thoughts or referrals of my batt.s now charging in 25-30% the time they use to take using this new charger... nearly the same charger, makes me wonder if there may be a problem...
 

BarnBoy

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
Pleasanton, CA
@Shaunpro3
🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬
As you can see in the above thread, I instrumented the crap out of my battery combiner and box to make sure nothing in the system is harmed nor smoked….

So in your case because you are back driving, you need to instrument (measure) all your power/voltage/current inputs and outputs. Batteries are basically big frick’n capacitors and charge with current until too much and 💣

You need to make sure you are WAY under the claimed limits of your battery as a lithium fire is not your average garden hose fire!!! Meaning assume it is going to blow up on you and ask yourself; WWJD….

Now please start your own project thread……………………
-BB

PS- your first LIKE was removed and replaced by the reaction above…..
 

BarnBoy

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
Pleasanton, CA
@kauaikit - I completely forgot to give feedback on the “N” versus “E” button. Wow does that ever give a boost (3-4mph boost). Thank you for spotting that error from the photos!

I have not been riding her lately as it has been either too hot or too smoky. But the odometer has over 400 miles. Better than continued dust collection in the barn. But still waiting for my Hydra….

The Battery packs are holding strong! I did a storage discharge to about 80% and they have held that number for the last month plus. Laudation batteries are good!!!!

I did have an issue with the LED lamps I swapped. I went for a late ride and had to turn on the lights. After a while (the longest I have ever used them) I stopped and noticed they were not bright and I could smell smoke. Was still 20 miles from home, it was now way too dark and I didn’t have lights! I made it back home thanks to a wife rescue with lecture. Got stuck with a list of her Honey-Do projects the next day….

But after looking closer I found the lights are battery powered; thought they were 12V from bulb specs and never measured actual. So I’m not so sure how the original bulb survived the two SLA batteries in series. The LED replacement bulbs are 12V and thus smoked. So I soldered x2 in series and added a thermal sponge to take any and all heat off the back side mounted resistors. Much more gooder than the smoked unit (and brighter too!)….🤪
-BB

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vkuw

New Member
Region
USA
City
Delray Beach
Hello folks,

Before you ask “WHY?” or comment negatively understand that this bike and I have done many-many miles, so I do feel rather attached to her. “HER” because of the Cranberry Red color; and my wife allowed me to purchase her back in 1999 to commute to work from the ACE train station in San Jose to Silver Creek Valley Road (>12 miles). I have all of the original tools, bags, pump and Service Manual with schematics. I even found my logbook showing over 8.3K miles ridden on her using x4 different SLA sets. Rain or shine, she never let me down; except those darn SLA batteries would barely last a year. Yes, the 24V EGV is too slow, thus why I have a WW Hydra XL on order. But until the molds for my new frame get done and bike in my hands, I really wanted to see if I could get my Cranberry Girl on the road and running again….

So today I took her out of the barn and removed probably 16 years of cobwebs and dust. She is still filthy and will get a sponge bath soon, but I needed to see if she still “WORKS” before I would consider purchasing another pile of batteries. Attached a 24V bench supply I have, limited current to 3A (supply max!); she fired right up with some WELCOME BEEPS and turned the rear wheel just fine. Horn and lights all work too!!! Time for next step; DA BATTERIES….
View attachment 85038

Having read every post on this EVG Forum, I know this post is going to be DARK, unread and unloved. But just in case there is some other fool out there like me that wants to get a simple & safe ebike working again, hopefully you will have an answer/solution below. I really appreciate the inspiration from the writings of @kauaikit, @Court and others to motivate me to start this project. I do hope it turns out sucessful…

First step was to open the old EVG 24V battery box and remove the old 12V 12Ah SLA (sealed lead acid) cells. These buggers weigh approx. 7.7lbs (3.5kg) or 15.5lbs (7kg) together. I remembered I would almost run out of battery as I would ride home from the ACE station. So, GOAL#1 – REDUCE BATTERY PACK WEIGHT (half?) & GOAL #2 – IMPROVE AMP-HOUR.

Today was really fun, as I was rummaging in the barn for all the EVG things, I found a receipt for my first purchased EVG battery replacement pack. Sadly, I was told from the dealer in Santa Cruz it was to be a new one. Some $300 w/ shipping and several weeks later, my first replacement battery pack arrived. It was pretty obvious it was a rebuild unit with all the scratches and pry marks. That lesson educated me to buy batteries from the local brick and mortar. I stopped in to the local Batteries Plus Bulbs today and they offered me a $60 unit, where I need x2 and hit with tax, core charges, etc. That would have been approx. $150 and give me the same performance I had over 20 years ago. Giving GOAL#3 – Cost less than $300. I found a 15Ah SLA on Amazon x2 for <$60 and free shipping. Brick & Mortar is truly dead….

The EVG 24V battery box has two 150x100x100mm compartments for the SLA. I looked at the LiPo RC batteries as per a post in this forum, but they are VERY EXPENSIVE and really need a super special charger to not IGNITE! I saw another forum post where a 36V EVG guy was going to try an array of 18650 cells (15x7), so that gave me an idea to look for maybe a 7s7p or 6s6p pack. I’m taking the sage advice from @kauaikit to do a 6S pack as 7s might be too much voltage (29.4v). To further, I used the bench supply to test the battery warning lights, they seem to match Lithium Ion curves, but I do plan to add a battery measurement display. So today I placed a purchase for x2 6s5p 18650 packs. They measure approx. 110x100x70mm, weigh less than 1.5kg, have integral BPS and come with a small computer brick like AC powered battery charger. Here is my plan, and I would love some advice from battery people like @greeno to make sure I will not be starting fires in the barn as a result of this ½-baked plan! I plan to hard wire parallel both 6s5p packs together with 15A auto blade fuses from the two packs positive terminals. I believe there is enough room in the EVG box to include the two AC powered battery chargers as the EVG pack has a C13 AC port. My question to the forum is, can I just plug in a charger to each battery knowing that the two chargers will be in parallel too. Any issues doing this?? Or do I need to think of paralleling the two packs with x2 current diodes to isolate the chargers??? Also placed on order are new brake pads, tires, and tubes.

So if this works, I will have a new 56Ah, 24V (1.3kWh) battery pack for the Cranberry Girl. That is more than 4 times the range and way less than 1/2 the weight (4kg or 8.8lbs savings!). Including the brake pads, tires & tubes, I am right at $300....

More to come….
-BB
I have the original owners manual along with the title of the bike. I originally had a guy who thought he could fix it and bought a 36v battery and he blew the controller. So I was upset because I couldn't get a controller for it.
 

BarnBoy

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
Pleasanton, CA
I have the original owners manual along with the title of the bike. I originally had a guy who thought he could fix it and bought a 36v battery and he blew the controller. So I was upset because I couldn't get a controller for it.
You can buy a controller. There is a guy in Utah that might have parts. I don’t think @kauaikit has any 24V parts…
-BB

Look for Electric Wheels of Utah if the below doesn’t work….