BATTERY ADVICE

slim jim

New Member
My 2013 Izip path needs the 24 volt li-ion battery replaced. I like the bike and mechanically it is in great shape. A new battery cost $500? Should I use the battery replacement money towards a new bike or replace
the battery? Thanks
 

J.R.

Well-Known Member
If you like the bike and it does everything you want it to do then get a new battery. The question can only be answered by you! I did do a quick search for a 2013 Izip Path and one of the first hits I got was a new leftover for $1,299.99 here. So if it does do everything you want and you do like the bike, it would likely be worth replacing the battery.

Good luck!
 

Ann M.

Well-Known Member
@slim jim I agree with J.R. about keeping the bike if you like how it performs. Two year lifespan seems a little short for a 24V lithium ion battery pack (think its a LiFePO4 construct) so there's questions I have about how its been stored and charged; what kind of exposure to heat has it had and so on. Can you share a few details about what has brought you to the conclusion that the battery is toast, please! If it's only the battery that has an issue, an alternative option is to have it rebuilt by a company like Rechargeable Power Energy- they're here in the US and may be able to provide better cells, possibly more amp hours (power) inside the same case as the original battery. It's generally a fair amount less expensive than buying a whole new battery.

What we also don't know and only you can answer this, is how much of a load the bike is carrying and how far you're trying to go every day. If you're maxing out the motor and virtually emptying the battery for every ride, then this ebike may not have all the capacity that you need.
 

slim jim

New Member
If you like the bike and it does everything you want it to do then get a new battery. The question can only be answered by you! I did do a quick search for a 2013 Izip Path and one of the first hits I got was a new leftover for $1,299.99 here. So if it does do everything you want and you do like the bike, it would likely be worth replacing the battery.

Good luck!
Thanks, J.R.
 

slim jim

New Member
@slim jim I agree with J.R. about keeping the bike if you like how it performs. Two year lifespan seems a little short for a 24V lithium ion battery pack (think its a LiFePO4 construct) so there's questions I have about how its been stored and charged; what kind of exposure to heat has it had and so on. Can you share a few details about what has brought you to the conclusion that the battery is toast, please! If it's only the battery that has an issue, an alternative option is to have it rebuilt by a company like Rechargeable Power Energy- they're here in the US and may be able to provide better cells, possibly more amp hours (power) inside the same case as the original battery. It's generally a fair amount less expensive than buying a whole new battery.

What we also don't know and only you can answer this, is how much of a load the bike is carrying and how far you're trying to go every day. If you're maxing out the motor and virtually emptying the battery for every ride, then this ebike may not have all the capacity that you need.
Thanks, Ann, The battery isn't completely depleted it just has 1/3 of the power that it had when new. I was able to ride, with my pedaling, over thirty miles but now it's more like ten miles.
Thanks for suggesting that I have the battery rebuilt.
 

Ann M.

Well-Known Member
Samsung and other manufacturers are able to make Li Ion cells now that have much more capacity and way more charge cycles than when your battery pack was originally constructed, probably about 3 years ago realistically.
 

JoePah

Well-Known Member
A two year old battery that has lost 2/3 of its capacity is a very poor performing product.. Unless you have charged the battery every day, say 700 times, I wouldn't give that company my business, unless they are willing to give you some kind of pro rated discount on a new battery.

Owned a 2009 A2B Metro, LiMn battery, that I put close to 1000 cycles on.. Got rid of it when the capacity dropped to 50%.

Currently own a 2013 Stromer with around 3000 miles on it, and it's capacity is around 80%.. And that is not good either.

Don't replace the battery until the distributor explains why your battery died after such a short time. And offers you some kind of discount.

Battery technology hasn't changed that much in the last 6 years, except that the lithium batteries are lighter.
 

RoyL

Active Member
Think you`re better off getting your old battery re-celled with premium cells, will probably work out cheaper than a replacement battery.
 

MLB

Well-Known Member
I'm not understanding why E bikes need to have a specific (OEM) battery versus any other 24v battery (in this case, but 36v or 48v too) that matches the output specs to the motor and controller?
I certainly understand the manufacturer wanting the replacement parts business, but this is just a battery powering an electric motor. Isn't it?
Are there functional reasons how/why a battery could be proprietary in nature other than matching it's specs to the charger and controller provided with the bike purchase and the matching of plugs???? (of course some have physcial shapes that are hard to replicate, but not many)

24v being pretty passe' these days, you should be able to replace the oem specs for $100 or less. Even if the new battery required different charging specs and have to buy a new charger, still save a bunch.
 
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Ann M.

Well-Known Member
Thanks, Margo; it's not as straight forward as some on this forum might have you believe. Electric bike motors can pull a lot of current and do so very quickly when there's a need for rapid acceleration or constant high power output like climbing a hill. These high output scenarios are the ones that stress and heat a battery the most, which different battery cells handle better than others. It's not always a constant steady output like riding on flat ground. Choosing a better quality battery cell for manufacturing a Lithium Ion battery pack with a decent battery management system (BMS) and charger is not something you just walk into a toy store or craft shop and pick up off the shelf for $100. Sure you can get something but what are you getting? Newer style LiIon cells have many more charge cycles (like 2000 cycles vs 400) and are more resistant to the dangerous overheating issue than earlier, cheaper cells. Lots of the older cells are floating around for the do-it-yourself types and you can buy aftermarket BMS systems or you order some unknown pack from overseas with little to no warranty. Do you want to be the experiment or do you want reliable transportation?
 

Margo Allen

New Member
Thanks, Margo; it's not as straight forward as some on this forum might have you believe. Electric bike motors can pull a lot of current and do so very quickly when there's a need for rapid acceleration or constant high power output like climbing a hill. These high output scenarios are the ones that stress and heat a battery the most, which different battery cells handle better than others. It's not always a constant steady output like riding on flat ground. Choosing a better quality battery cell for manufacturing a Lithium Ion battery pack with a decent battery management system (BMS) and charger is not something you just walk into a toy store or craft shop and pick up off the shelf for $100. Sure you can get something but what are you getting? Newer style LiIon cells have many more charge cycles (like 2000 cycles vs 400) and are more resistant to the dangerous overheating issue than earlier, cheaper cells. Lots of the older cells are floating around for the do-it-yourself types and you can buy aftermarket BMS systems or you order some unknown pack from overseas with little to no warranty. Do you want to be the experiment or do you want reliable transportation?
I know. I went as high end on my first purchase as I could afford, and have a Lifepo4 version with a 6amp charger. There are many importers with quality product that match the various specifications required. The US retail market is not distributing much that is suitable, by my observation. I am on my first conversion, and I believe I will be quite happy remaining on this end of the ebike spectrum. One need not buy the battery from the kit supplier. I plan on several more builds, as I enjoy the customizing process. While one may get more product support from a brand name dealer, I feel the discount prices and wide availability of compatable products more than makes up for this perceived short coming. I don't wish to become caught up in a product line that requires proprietary replacements for every component, most of all, the battery!
 

MLB

Well-Known Member
Thanks, Margo; it's not as straight forward as some on this forum might have you believe. Electric bike motors can pull a lot of current and do so very quickly when there's a need for rapid acceleration or constant high power output like climbing a hill. These high output scenarios are the ones that stress and heat a battery the most, which different battery cells handle better than others. It's not always a constant steady output like riding on flat ground. Choosing a better quality battery cell for manufacturing a Lithium Ion battery pack with a decent battery management system (BMS) and charger is not something you just walk into a toy store or craft shop and pick up off the shelf for $100. Sure you can get something but what are you getting? Newer style LiIon cells have many more charge cycles (like 2000 cycles vs 400) and are more resistant to the dangerous overheating issue than earlier, cheaper cells. Lots of the older cells are floating around for the do-it-yourself types and you can buy aftermarket BMS systems or you order some unknown pack from overseas with little to no warranty. Do you want to be the experiment or do you want reliable transportation?


Nor as complex as others seem to think. Not sure why you suggest that anything cheaper than OEM is "old" or "outdated" tech? Not the case from my investigations. Not many current bikes using 24v batteries, but that doesn't mean that anything that uses 24v batteries are going to be old tech or cells used. There are plenty of current devices using current, high tech 24v batteries, and those are being made and are available.
To suggest that anything other than OEM is older, less reliable or less high tech just isn't true and seems to protective of OEM. JMO
 

George S.

Well-Known Member
Newer style LiIon cells have many more charge cycles (like 2000 cycles vs 400) and are more resistant to the dangerous overheating issue than earlier, cheaper cells. Lots of the older cells are floating around for the do-it-yourself types and you can buy aftermarket BMS systems or you order some unknown pack from overseas with little to no warranty.


This seems over-broad. Paul, EM3ev, makes packs with the Samsung cells. They are often very dated, in a world with 3500 mah cells. The old (design, not production date) cells just happen to be great for high performance packs. Other newer cells? Not so much, apparently. If you would read this one paragraph from Paul, it's clear you have to pick and choose:

We now offer 4 type of Samsung cell in our packs. We have the ICR18650-22 (NCM cell, 3C rated, approximately 2.1Ah) cell. We also have the High Energy density INR18650-29E (NCA Cell, 2C Max rated cell, with approx 2.8Ah nominal Capacity). There are also 2 High Power cell2, the INR18650-20R and the INR18650-25R. These are NCA type cell, 10C (20R) and 8C (25R) rated cells with Capacities of approximately 1.90Ah (20R) and 2.45Ah (25R). Regardless of the cell type used, the dimensions of the pack are unchanged. The High Energy 29E Cell is approximately 6% heavier than the other type cells, so the weight of a 29E built Pack is slightly higher than when built from the other cell types.

The new cells are higher capacity, but saying they are better? Do you want an 8c rate or a 2c rate?
 

AndrewH

New Member
I've kit @ 1000 watt 48 volts no battery, & 2nd hand bike @ 250 watt 36 volt with battery.
Different battery connectors, but tested kit's motor from bike's controller & it goes around.
Would that = 750 watts (¾ of 1000 motor) or 250 watts (= bike's motor)?
 

AndrewH

New Member
Yeah, so = it that N° of watts depends on controller or motor?
How many watts from 36v 9ah battery if I got a controller rated @ 750 watts.
 

George S.

Well-Known Member
If you had a controller rated at 20 amps, you'd get around 720 watts from a 36v battery. The C rate would be around 2C, which most batteries should handle if they are fully charged. There are 25A controllers for 36 volt that will produce 900 to 1000 watts. The controller generally has an amp cut off, an amp rating, not a watt rating. Motor ratings can be very misleading. You don't want a motor getting hot.

You would generally move to 48 volt systems with a 1000 watt motor because 15 to 25 amp controllers are pretty standard. The Bafang BBSHD is rated 1500 watts and it has a 30 amp controller.
 

AndrewH

New Member
So bike'll = 7 & 1/7 Amps as 250w motor @ 35v.
& that = the amps going to any watt-rating of motor.
As the 1000w motor would need wires going to it changing if used @ full power, I'm thinking of using only 35v, so 20a controller OK, & run @ 720w.

1 would convert colums (Amp Hour) & volt to juels (watt hour), so easy calc"ll = not good!