BBS*** Settings for a Smoother Ride

Gionnirocket

Well-Known Member
I used the 5 KT settings for PAS 1,3,5,7,and 9. For PAS 2, I split the difference between PAS 1(13) and PAS 3(20), using 16. Did the same for 4, 6, and 8, to maintain that curve the best I could.

Regarding his explanation for using 100 for a speed limit ("If you set a limit on spd, then each time you reach a particular speed, the motor would cut power. For example, if your top speed is set to 32kph, and if Assit1 spd% is set to 10, then if the bike reaches 3.2kph, then the motor would stop assisting in level 1. This is not desirable.")

I had to read that several times, but with the 100 settings, he's disabling the function where the motor stops assisting at a certain speed, which sounds logical to me, the way I'm reading it anyway. I'm not seeing that as something I need - but - it's early in my exploring here. There could be something subtle going on somewhere else that I'm not seeing yet.

As far as establishing lower "Limit Current" settings, to me, it's not about trying to get used to the OEM settings here. I rode the bike for 50 miles or so prior to hooking up the laptop - to get a clear picture of what was going on. For me, changing these "Limit Current" settings was necessary to actually provide some of the power required to move the bike myself. That's nearly impossible with the OEM settings. Bonus was the OEM settings just gobble up energy from the battery unnecessarily. These new settings are MUCH more conservative. Not just giving you a chance to contribute (rather than just ghost pedaling), but also extending the available range noticeably.

I will say that somebody riding a bike like this more aggressively, where the bike is seldom used in the lower PAS levels, or they are just using throttle alone, could probably care less about these settings - until they get tired of wiping the battery out in 15 miles or less anyway. My target is an easy 35 miles at least.

Will make a change to the "Pedal Assist" tab today. Going to turn down the "start current" now set at 30 to 10 or 12 and try that. This is another attempt at reducing wasted power without sacrificing much in the way of performance. Will see how that works... -Al
I'm with you👍
My comment on "getting use" to was referring more to the Pedal Assist /Start Degree setting. There's so many riding variables that it's hard to know how some settings will react until you live them.
I'm with you on the current settings as in my opinion both the stock and the increments of 10 that everyone hails as the holy grail are total crap.
Still not sure on the all PAS speed at 100 and I understand what he is saying. . just not sure I agree. I've already made the changes on my laptop and as soon as the afternoon sun warms things up a bit I'm off for a test drive.
Don't make this too interesting or I'll be looking for a bike with the Ultra!!!
 

Gionnirocket

Well-Known Member
Lowering the start current will definitely smooth things out. Probably the most significant of all the settings for a smoother ride.
I tried the all PAS speed set to 100 and I turned around within 1/4 mile and set it back to my original settings. I didn't like it at all and it's definitely more intrusive and wasteful.
Perhaps its different because I have a BBS02B... or I have some other settings changed causing my dislike but I'm starting to think that the author of the link you referenced is messiah to a handful of followers with deep pockets and shallow technical skills.
 

AHicks

Well-Known Member
What were you using previous (assist speed%), and what was it that made you turn around in 1/4 mile?

There doesn't seem to be much of a consensus on what SHOULD work, or why....
 

Gionnirocket

Well-Known Member
I am using the Speed% settings listed in the start of this thread with a Max Speed set by Display @ 30mph.
I turned around and changed back because the motor stayed engaged no matter the speed or amount of pedaling.
That makes absolutely no sense to me. Do you really want the motor assist when you are on level ground on your own power and wanting maybe some assistance for a slight grade increase or headwind... And what about going down hill?
"This is not desirable"... to the contrar'.. it's exactly what I want.
 

AHicks

Well-Known Member
Sorry, forgot you pasted your before and after earlier. See you found Penov's software update as well.

Way different results here. My motor is turning on only with pressure on the pedals - as one would expect. Increased pressure = more power. Pretty sure I wouldn't want my motor running full time either. I had no idea that's what your problem was with those settings. So why the big difference in our results?

I went over your settings, comparing them to mine.
Regarding throttle delay - on the throttle page, you have "speed limited" set for "by display". As it turns out, Roshan addressed this issue, mentioned this would "cause a severe lag in throttle response" suggesting a setting of 32-40kmh. I'm using 40kmh with no delay.

On that same page I set "end voltage" to 42 (max available in the drop down) and noticed better throttle modulation. Not as touchy. Still good response, but easier control. Kinda spreads out the control input. You are at default, 36.

Pedal assist page,
We're both using "Current" speed mode vs. the default "Speed".
I went with 12 for start current because 10 was too soft. Default was 30, you are set at 15. Not likely much different than mine.
Startup degree - default = 4, you changed that to 10 (way less sensitive), I went with 3 (more sensitive). This might be the setting that left your motor on - but - you don't have the 4th "Torque" page that the Ultra has, which might also hold the reason for that. -Al
 

Gionnirocket

Well-Known Member
Sorry, forgot you pasted your before and after earlier. See you found Penov's software update as well.

Way different results here. My motor is turning on only with pressure on the pedals - as one would expect. Increased pressure = more power. Pretty sure I wouldn't want my motor running full time either. I had no idea that's what your problem was with those settings. So why the big difference in our results?

I went over your settings, comparing them to mine.
Regarding throttle delay - on the throttle page, you have "speed limited" set for "by display". As it turns out, Roshan addressed this issue, mentioned this would "cause a severe lag in throttle response" suggesting a setting of 32-40kmh. I'm using 40kmh with no delay.

On that same page I set "end voltage" to 42 (max available in the drop down) and noticed better throttle modulation. Not as touchy. Still good response, but easier control. Kinda spreads out the control input. You are at default, 36.

Pedal assist page,
We're both using "Current" speed mode vs. the default "Speed".
I went with 12 for start current because 10 was too soft. Default was 30, you are set at 15. Not likely much different than mine.
Startup degree - default = 4, you changed that to 10 (way less sensitive), I went with 3 (more sensitive). This might be the setting that left your motor on - but - you don't have the 4th "Torque" page that the Ultra has, which might also hold the reason for that. -Al
Hey Al
I think that you may have misunderstood me... The motor does stop if I stop pedaling. What I don't like is that when pedaling it doesn't shutdown no matter the speed. Why do you want assistance if you are at or going above your desired speed and don't need any further assistance? An obvious situation is going down hill or wanting to push harder yourself on a level path.
Pick any speed for example say 12mph.
PAS 3 No assistance
PAS 4 Minimal assistance as speed fluctuates up/down slightly... The slower the more assistance, the faster it will be less all the way down to 0
PAS 5 Will be more aggressive pushing me to go faster to the next higher speed increment.
With the Speed set to 100 in all PAS settings it is assisting at some level 100% of the time while pedaling. To me this is not necessary and wasteful.

On the throttle delay, I have none... Rashan copied that from the years old Hackers Guide as is most of his settings. I think it is for older models than we both own.
On the Throttle End Voltage I have a wide enough spread and am able to feather as gently as I need so I saw no reason to adjust. This is in part to using a twist throttle which I find better for several reasons than the stock thumb. Technically you are supposed to match this setting to your throttles specifications
As mentioned earlier the Start Degree I have since changed to 6. This does not affect why the motor stays on.. but as implied by name, when it starts.
You're 4th page with the torque settings and the addition of the torque sensors on the Ultra might very well be making the 100% speed setting acceptable, but it doesn't compute in my thinking at the moment. I like the idea that the motor helps more the harder you push, but I don't see how that shuts the motor down when not needed and still pedaling. My understanding is usually aided by being hands on though. 🙃

edit: Curious.. what happens if you are pedaling and gradually apply throttle on the Ultra.
 
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AHicks

Well-Known Member
Nice day out, so I went out to check what mine does.
My motor runs with a light growl when making power. The more power it's making, the louder the growl (would love to find a plastic gear). You don't need to look at the watt meter to tell when it's not pulling anything. When I'm at a steady cruise speed on level pavement (no big winds or hills), there's very little or no growl/motor noise, and the watt meter isn't registering anything. If I slowly engage the throttle under these conditions, you can feel, hear, and see that the motor is making power - to a degree controlled by the throttle position, and response time is immediate.

This last charge, mostly ridden in PAS 1 (say 90%) and the rest could be stuff done while testing in PAS 2, short wide open runs, just misc. etc. Most of this done with temps in the 40's and low 50's. I'm showing 33 miles on the trip meter with 48.7v still showing. I only let it get to 46v prior to charging, so it's got at least another 3-4 miles left in it. 48v, 19.5ah batt. w/LG cells. I'm going to be pretty happy if I can trust this bike to make 40 miles on a charge reliably. This early in testing/set up, it looks like that going to happen pretty easily.... -Al
 

Gionnirocket

Well-Known Member
Nice day out, so I went out to check what mine does.
My motor runs with a light growl when making power. The more power it's making, the louder the growl (would love to find a plastic gear). You don't need to look at the watt meter to tell when it's not pulling anything. When I'm at a steady cruise speed on level pavement (no big winds or hills), there's very little or no growl/motor noise, and the watt meter isn't registering anything. If I slowly engage the throttle under these conditions, you can feel, hear, and see that the motor is making power - to a degree controlled by the throttle position, and response time is immediate.

This last charge, mostly ridden in PAS 1 (say 90%) and the rest could be stuff done while testing in PAS 2, short wide open runs, just misc. etc. Most of this done with temps in the 40's and low 50's. I'm showing 33 miles on the trip meter with 48.7v still showing. I only let it get to 46v prior to charging, so it's got at least another 3-4 miles left in it. 48v, 19.5ah batt. w/LG cells. I'm going to be pretty happy if I can trust this bike to make 40 miles on a charge reliably. This early in testing/set up, it looks like that going to happen pretty easily.... -Al
Glad you are liking the new ride... Post a pic of the bike. Actual photos look so much better than website advertising pics
I was feeling a bit under the weather yesterday and was ready to blow off my daily ride but the sun came out late in the day and temps were around 70° so I pushed myself to do a quick 16miles. Glad I did.
Good to hear you went with a sizeable battery... I think they're so much more stable. On a full battery down to 40% I'm averaging about 120 miles with the 17.5ah...but the motor isn't assisting about 50% of the time as I'm above the PAS speed threshold and on my own power. I think I may be a bit lighter than you so 🍌 & 🍍 🙃
 

AHicks

Well-Known Member
Fair assumption on my part.... MOST people are lighter than I am, by quite a bit! 19.2ah battery size is standard. That's one of the reasons I went with this bike. Great specs with no surprises to jack up the price. We now have 4" pavement tires mounted up, back to messing with 1 and 2 pound pressure adjustments. If too low on the front, self steering is VERY apparent. First time I've experienced that. Pressure had to be turned up to 17psi for a balance of good ride with a minimum of self steering. Don't miss the tire noise a bit, but rolling resistance feels about the same.

Rainy day today, so a good one to dive into the "torque" tab. There is NO consensus on the settings that I've seen. Some have said there's going to be a lot of personal taste involved as typical speeds and riding surfaces vary so much. That means it's going to be slow going, as I'll need to figure out what works best for me.

We'll post a pic soon. -Al
 

Gionnirocket

Well-Known Member
In the end I think you made the right decision.
You saved $1000 and you're keeping yourself busy and learning...a nice pass time for rainy days.
Then add that you're not tied to double_secret so_called proprietary (bs) firmware that wants to charge you $75/hour to tweak something that is very personal and requires a little trial and error and possible further tweaks down the road as you get older. This isn't rocket science after all and the info we've come across is what's been out there for years.
Dreary day here but dry... Off to the races after lunch.
G
 

AHicks

Well-Known Member
After a test ride today, I'm declaring myself pretty close right here, after just a couple small changes on the torque tab. I lowered the effort required to push hard enough to start the torque response, as well as the max effort. Going to put a few miles on it like this.

Yesterday (I think), I had made a change to the "basic" page, where I installed a 1 for limit current and limit speed for PAS 0. I had read that would give me throttle in PAS 0. Turns out I now have throttle AND PAS available, with more thrust than available in PAS 1. So there's a mistake somewhere. Will deal with that and hold tight until I get a charge or 2 through it.

Not a big fan, just kind of unusual, while out for this test, Pence's plane flew right over me while landing.
 

Gionnirocket

Well-Known Member
After a test ride today, I'm declaring myself pretty close right here, after just a couple small changes on the torque tab. I lowered the effort required to push hard enough to start the torque response, as well as the max effort. Going to put a few miles on it like this.

Yesterday (I think), I had made a change to the "basic" page, where I installed a 1 for limit current and limit speed for PAS 0. I had read that would give me throttle in PAS 0. Turns out I now have throttle AND PAS available, with more thrust than available in PAS 1. So there's a mistake somewhere. Will deal with that and hold tight until I get a charge or 2 through it.

Not a big fan, just kind of unusual, while out for this test, Pence's plane flew right over me while landing.
Yes the PAS 0 set to 1/1 will give you throttle in PAS 0.
I opted to leave it at 0/0 as a neutral for safety reasons.
I set my Designated Assist Level (tab 3) to 9. This gives me full throttle in all PAS settings except for 0. I've found that the rare occasions when I do want throttle, I want all that the motor has available,not limited to the PAS I'm riding in.
But you are right to do small changes and then ride a bit. Much easier to realize how one setting can affect others. You don't always come across every riding situation that you need to address in one ride.

...as to the Pence flyover,
...if only the Second Ammendment allowed for anti aircraft. 😅 😅
 

AHicks

Well-Known Member
Pence flyover - we'd better let that drop prior to being admonished......

I'd like to have throttle only available in PAS 0, but not if it's going to suck in phantum PAS settings and activate that as well. Not too big a deal, I'll kill both if I have to. Kinda curious what's happening though. -Al
 

Gionnirocket

Well-Known Member
Pence flyover - we'd better let that drop prior to being admonished......

I'd like to have throttle only available in PAS 0, but not if it's going to suck in phantum PAS settings and activate that as well. Not too big a deal, I'll kill both if I have to. Kinda curious what's happening though. -Al
Since I only use throttle for a quick burst like crossing a busy street, I want it full power and always available while moving. If I had to drop down to PAS 0 to use it and then scroll back up to my desired PAS.. that would make it an albatross IMHO.

I've holstered the M2 Browning 🙃
 

AHicks

Well-Known Member
I use my throttle the same way you're describing. Only more to get the bike moving while climbing aboard than anything else. Just thought it would be nice to have it in all the PAS levels, including PAS 0.
 

AHicks

Well-Known Member
Old man's bike pic as requested. Our home is just a couple of hundred feet the other side of that tree line. This "trail" is where Pence flew directly over me. It's used to maintain the airport's landing systems for their busiest runway. Thank God it's used only for corporate planes (big 3 automotive mostly). There's no regular passenger service out of here. This is the SE corner of 3000 acres or so of state land, bordering the north and west sides of a 700 acre lake - located just to the right of this pic. It's not really a giant park, but it's crisscrossed by miles of single track trails you'd be all day covering. The north side of the park has a couple of glacial ridges the mountain bike types come from miles around to play in. We're maybe 35 miles NW of downtown Detroit. My summer playground, I've lived within a mile of here most of my life. -Al
DSC00403.JPG
 

Gionnirocket

Well-Known Member
Nice Bike Al!... glad you're enjoying it! I like the SuperCell tires on it.
It's great that you have a nice area close to home to ride. I wish I had something a little more rural that I could get to right out of the garage. I'm between two parks with lakes and such very close to home.. and also with 50 miles of Rail_trail. But much is adjacent to highways and I find the road noise annoying. There is a fair amount of wildlife around for what it is. I'm right on the Bronx / Yonkers border and also have been here my entire life... though I do see a move coming somewhere in my future.

On the throttle I too started off making PAS 0 as a throttle only setting... but after a few weeks I realized that I never use it that way and I'd be better served reverting back and making it a neutral for some added safety when handling the bike and maintenance without having to shut it off. I just wish that it was the default on startup. What motorized vehicle starts in an active mode?
 

Gionnirocket

Well-Known Member
...a quick update as I changed my throttle from a full twist to a half twist and I noticed that in the first few millimeters of rotation there was no motor response. Changing the Start Voltage on page three from 11 to 9 corrected the issue. A setting of 8 caused an 04 Throttle Error.

IMAG0559.jpg throttle~2.jpg
ohh and I almost forgot... this post is dedicated to my good friend.
# @Stefan Mikes #throttle #Bafang #BBS02B #🙃
 

Gionnirocket

Well-Known Member
That's the plan for the future as some really nice models are coming out.
But honestly I really do enjoy working on the bike and converting a standard to an ebike has given me a very interesting project to work on during covid.
As for the throttle I use it seldom but there are a few times that I do appreciate it. First with my bad knee.. sometimes a little throttle to get rolling really helps and keeps me from aggravating it from the start. Second... a quick burst to get across a busy intersection, especially from a stop I feel keeps me safer.
So since I started this project I've ridden longer and further, lost some weight and kept the cogs in my head turning.
So see... Turning the throttle on a Bafang BBS02B isn't all bad 😋