BBS02 750 on a family cargo - PAS sensor?

Stablebarns

New Member
Region
United Kingdom
Hi folks. This is my first post.

I've just refurbished a Nihola cargo trike and added a BBS02 750w 48v. Very neat and easy to install. My only previous experience with an E motor was a Bosch Performance line CX. We had this on a Kalkhoff commuter and used it to pull a trailer. We have 6 year old twins and a dog.
The new Nihola conversion is great so far and the power is pretty impressive from the Bafang. But my kit came without a PAS. So this was a surprise to me, as when I apply pressure to the crank, the motor kicks in quite aggressively. My previous experience is a very nuanced power response.
I'm going to try the programming cable and look at changing the internal settings. But I'm wondering what experience people have with the various PAS sensors? There seem to be lots of after market PAS options, though I can't see a Bafang branded one?
Do they help with a more incremented assistance?
My desire is to have a softer delivery of power and also to increase the torque and sacrifice speed if needed.
This is after all a family machine, not a sports car ;-)
The UK laws restrict us to 25ow and 15.5 mph top speed. But I hate the 15.5 issue. Many UK cities have a 20mph speed restriction and capping a bicycle at 15.5 leaves just enough of a differential to justify some terrible driving decisions regarding overtaking by cars. I intend to set ours to 18mph.
Many thanks for any advice or help.
 

PedalUma

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
Welcome. The BBS02 has no 'feel' but it does have PAS based on cadence exclusively and to on the rider's input of torque, hence the sensation of lag, surge and lurch. You can 'ghost pedal' this bike. That is pedal with no pressure and almost no pedaling speed (cadence) at full power and the bike will go at max speed. The Bosch has a torque sensor so it is smooth and intuitive.
 

Dewey

Well-Known Member
Nice cargo trike! Here in the US there are only a few Nihola dealers, but it seems a neat design and more intuitive than the one's where you shove the entire box around. I like the Nihola Low model has a lower step through. How do you like the handling? When loaded does the road camber pull you to the side of the road? Are you using a Hebie Chainglider in place of the chainguard? There is a thread on the UK Pedelecs forum that shares programming information, the link in the first post is how I taught myself to program my BBS01. Hooking up a laptop with a cable is a bit of a faff however the EggRider display lets you change some of the controller settings using Bluetooth and a phone app.

As PedalUma mentions BBS02 uses an internal cadence sensor and there is no torque PAS sensor upgrade, so its all down to how you program the controller.
 
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m@Robertson

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
The programming that comes with the Bafang motor out of the factory can be described as klunky at best. Hard on, long-delay to shut off and wastes power/range by providing more than is necessary. Especially if you want to treat the bike as a pedelec and not rely on throttle.

Fortunately, there is a robust interface available that lets you tailor the motors to change their character almost entirely. Thats the good news. The bad news is calling the process 'counterintuitive' is putting it nicely. But... there's a lot you can do once you fumble your way past figuring out how to make changes in a positive direction.

There is no single perfect suite of settings. But you can use this and the articles and methods linked to get yourself pointed in the right direction. I can guarantee you one thing: There is a lot of room for improvement over what you have now.


EDIT: Also for a BBS02, I would happily tone it down, but not juice it up. Especially in a cargo bike application where the duty cycle is pretty hard. Keep your amps down and stay off the throttle. Especially coming up off of a dead stop. The BBS02 controller is a bit fragile, although I know of plenty of cargo bike builders that use them; especially in the EU.
 
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Stablebarns

New Member
Region
United Kingdom
Amazing and thanks all for your replies. I will follow up those leads and report on my improvement
 

Stablebarns

New Member
Region
United Kingdom
Nice cargo trike! Here in the US there are only a few Nihola dealers, but it seems a neat design and more intuitive than the one's where you shove the entire box around. I like the Nihola Low model has a lower step through. How do you like the handling? When loaded does the road camber pull you to the side of the road? Are you using a Hebie Chainglider in place of the chainguard? There is a thread on the UK Pedelecs forum that shares programming information, the link in the first post is how I taught myself to program my BBS01. Hooking up a laptop with a cable is a bit of a faff however the EggRider display lets you change some of the controller settings using Bluetooth and a phone app.

As PedalUma mentions BBS02 uses an internal cadence sensor and there is no torque PAS sensor upgrade, so its all down to how you program the controller.
Hi Dewey, regarding the Nihola and the handling..... It's fantastic. I got the larger 4.0 which has an elongated front end. The wheel base remains the same as the other model, so fundamentally the handling stays the same as the smaller models. There is a kind of bodge after though as to how to compensate for the overweighting of the front end when the rider dismounts.... this is a drop down choc/stand thing. It does work and you get used to engaging it. But if you get out whilst the front is loaded, it will tip forward. This can damage the plastic nose, but it's nothing more than a shock mostly. It only tips up a few inches.
Having tried many cargo bike box designs, 2 and 3 wheeled, long and short... this is fantastic. Nothing beats the speed and handling of a 2 wheeler, but if you prioritise the 'truck' properties of a stable and permanent box, then this is a winner. Not having the entire box move is really stable compared to the Christiania style. Much less tippy and much more intuitive for a non cargo cyclist. I tried many back to back and several on long term hire.
I imagine the new breed (can't remember the company name) that combines this style of design with a tilting turn, would be amazing. But they're twice the price.