Be aware, pedal-assisted bikes are NOT ebikes

Ebiker33

Well-Known Member
I still think you will be able to ride in Stealth with Ebikes that don't look like Ebikes, but using something like Ultra motor Ebike with 5" fat tires is going to land you in trouble pretty fast.
Here are my hyperbolic examples

FLX Babymaker, no issue, and if somebody asks the answer is .......
Although I don't think this Ebike is good for those trails anyways.


Verses the Jeep Ebike, which would be a hard nope, you aren't allowed
 

FlatSix911

Well-Known Member
I still think you will be able to ride in Stealth with Ebikes that don't look like Ebikes, but using something like Ultra motor Ebike with 5" fat tires is going to land you in trouble pretty fast.
Here are my hyperbolic examples

FLX Babymaker, no issue, and if somebody asks the answer is .......
Although I don't think this Ebike is good for those trails anyways.


Verses the Jeep Ebike, which would be a hard nope, you aren't allowed

Yea, the Babymaker is built for riding around the LA flatlands. ;)
 

Ebiker33

Well-Known Member
Welcome to EBR and thanks for posting. ;)

I am very disappointed to see the new eBike restrictions in Santa Clara County, CA where I live and ride.

My experience is that regular analog mountain bikes and horses are a far greater hazard to hikers on the trials.

I'm curious where the new sign was located... Monte Bello Open Space Preserve? (currently closed due to fires)


Are horse riders forced to clean up the mess they leave behind, which hikers and analog bike riders have to later dodge?
If not, then Ebikes are better than horses.
 

FlatSix911

Well-Known Member
Are horse riders forced to clean up the mess they leave behind, which hikers and analog bike riders have to later dodge?
If not, then Ebikes are better than horses.

Absolutely... I have seen some bad situations when horses get spooked on narrow trails by hikers.
 

Joezheng

New Member
Welcome to EBR and thanks for posting. ;)

I am very disappointed to see the new eBike restrictions in Santa Clara County, CA where I live and ride.

My experience is that regular analog mountain bikes and horses are a far greater hazard to hikers on the trials.

I'm curious where the new sign was located... Monte Bello Open Space Preserve? (currently closed due to fires)

Yes, Montebello, the brand new sign was installed last week, it is reopened.
 

FlatSix911

Well-Known Member
Yes, Montebello, the brand new sign was installed last week, it is reopened.

I'm Super Bummed... one of my favorite backyard trails in Los Altos Hills.

Who do we need to talk with to get this repealed? I have friends in low places.

 

Alex M

Well-Known Member
Word games, word play. Everybody here knows an Ebike is a pedal assisted bicycle, whether it has a throttle or not; as defined by federal laws and standards set to define the 3 classes of ebikes.
I think "pedal assisted" is not a part of ebike classes description.

Class 1- PAS only, max 20 mph

Class 2 - has a throttle, max 20 mph.
There is no requirement for Class 2 to have PAS - only to have pedals - and some "real" Class 2 don't have PAS. One might may call such a throttle-only ebike "pedal-assisted", 'cause you can pedal while throttling - not that it would make much difference other than stretching your legs.
To ban Class 2 on mixed-use trails would make some sense though it would make more sense yet to ban those "fake Class 2" that look like mopeds and have (unusable) pedals, but they gravitate more towards streets than trails, they are commuters.

Class 3 - no throttle, max 28 mph. Again, on trails with pedestrians, distracted moms with strollers and similarly distracted dog walkers with uncontrollable pets - there is no way to tell when it'll suddenly stop or turn backwards or run in any direction, - would make sense to ban Class 3 too. Or maybe dog walkers should be banned to dog parks, I don't know.

Having been ridden an "acoustic" bike for years, while ebikes were already encroaching the space, I can tell that it was sometimes stressful to be around ebikes. Their average speed is faster, they don't care about slight uphill or "hump" on the bridge and often want to pass you on a narrow path. Roadies on acoustic bikes usually wanted to pass me too :), but recreational types are more relaxed, they don't mind taking a rest while dragging slowly behind until the path becomes wider. Pedestrians likely have same perception - bikes are fast (yes, acoustic ones too) - and thus are causing stress. This world is getting too crowded, seems to me.

Rant off.
 
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Ebiker33

Well-Known Member
I have said it, and I will say it again, put speed limits on the trails, don't ban Ebikes, scared about speed have at 15 mph Max for mixed use trails for all traffic including analog bikes too, for safety reasons, then everybody has an even playing field.
The Ebike isn't the issue, a safe speed is, just like a roadway with a speed limit.
And it doesn't matter if I am throttling at 15mph or peddling at 15mph, with a speed limiter on.
 

Dallant

Well-Known Member
As far as I’m concerned dogs shouldn’t be on trails at all. They’re all over the place. Sidewalks and dog parks are more than adequate for walking your dog.
And don’t get me started on horses! I was in Yosemite about 8 yrs ago and talk about a mess! Long lines of huge animals beating the trial into an airborne powder mixed with horse dung that you had to breathe and the stench! No thanks!
 

rarobo

New Member
I am in Georgia, I went to a LBS yesterday , he said the land manager at a local park ( mixed use and 25 miles of mtn trails) told them to stop sending Ebikes there, they were allowed 6 months ago, seems that the sudden increase in throttle Ebikes is causing issues that was not there six months ago. He also said if it did not improve they would stop ALL bikes. When you look at the ruling on Ebikes passed in 2019 read the whole ruling, local city, county, state governments can make their own rules. I don’t like it either, I think the ebike is here to stay and will get less expensive as time goes ( remember the early microwave oven? ) sooner or later they will be forced to deal with it
 

Browneye

Well-Known Member
All rules are arbitrary. Someone simply decided.

And why signs simply get torn down. People go anyway. When laws are unjust people willfully violate them. Not advocating...just sayin'.

Horses are like cats for rich women. LOL
My ex had horses, and my grandfather, so I've spent plenty of time around them. Two things come to mind...
1. A horse in a stable requires 6 wheelbarrows full of horse$hit out and 6 of shavings in - every week. DAMHIK
2. Grandpa was a real gem for letting his grandson ride his minibike all over the pastures with the horses. 😊
When I was about 10 years old, he had a horse ranch just across the railroad canyon that goes from the shoreline up to the Boeing 747 plant in Everett Washington. Yes, we were there when they started building that thing. So one day we were tandem on horseback, traversing that canyon wall, and the horse lost footing and we all tumbled down the hillside. I thought the damn horse landed on gramps, and I was all worried. He jumped up startled, and asked me why I was so worried...I said, "I didn't want to hear you cuss." 🤣

I never quite understood how a horse on four legs could lose it's footing and fall down. Surely happens. LOL
 

Dallant

Well-Known Member
I still think you will be able to ride in Stealth with Ebikes that don't look like Ebikes, but using something like Ultra motor Ebike with 5" fat tires is going to land you in trouble pretty fast.
Here are my hyperbolic examples

FLX Babymaker, no issue, and if somebody asks the answer is .......
Although I don't think this Ebike is good for those trails anyways.


Verses the Jeep Ebike, which would be a hard nope, you aren't allowed
Nice looking! That might be the only modern Jeep I’d ever buy as long as it’s not made by Fiat.🤔
 

Sierratim

Well-Known Member
It is true that not all pedal assisted are ebikes. Federal law defines a bicycle as having no more than 1hp/746W. More than this and it's a scooter, emotorcycle, whatever, but not a bicycle. Most designs meet this criteria but some don't. DIY kits are readily available that exceed these limits. Reputable sellers correctly state that these machines are limited to private property use but I'm sure many of us have seen them on streets and trails passing everything in sight and ignoring trail speed limits. This is a growing source of complaints in our small town as it is on the popular bike trails in the Sacramento Valley. I wouldn't doubt that this is contributing to growing restrictions on ebikes in CA.

What to do bout it? I don't have an answer. I guess that just makes me a grumpy old guy...😖
 

rdowns

Active Member
I have said it, and I will say it again, put speed limits on the trails, don't ban Ebikes, scared about speed have at 15 mph Max for mixed use trails for all traffic including analog bikes too, for safety reasons, then everybody has an even playing field.
The Ebike isn't the issue, a safe speed is, just like a roadway with a speed limit.
And it doesn't matter if I am throttling at 15mph or peddling at 15mph, with a speed limiter on.
This
 
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rdowns

Active Member
15 mph?! I would have to wear my brakes out while coasting down a hill!
Not necessarily 15 mph but more the idea of leveling the playing field. Ebikes are not the enemy and do not cause more damage. Those people who tear things up on an ebike would likely do the same damage on an acoustic bike. However, limiting the speed may make people feel more safe and keep the trails open to us all.
I do agree that it would be very difficult to keep a limit of 15 mph in my hilly country. It feels like most of my riding consists of hard uphills and coasting downhills!
 

Dallant

Well-Known Member
Not necessarily 15 mph but more the idea of leveling the playing field. Ebikes are not the enemy and do not cause more damage. Those people who tear things up on an ebike would likely do the same damage on an acoustic bike. However, limiting the speed may make people feel more safe and keep the trails open to us all.
I do agree that it would be very difficult to keep a limit of 15 mph in my hilly country. It feels like most of my riding consists of hard uphills and coasting downhills!
Yeah but to what speed and how do you enforce it? Playing devils advocate, I could make the case that electric bikes do you cause more damage because they are heavier and other reasons. The whole thing is a very slippery slope (pun intended).
 

J.R.

Well-Known Member
They have speed limits on some paths in Philly. Saw one posted 9 mph. The vast majority of trails I've seen that have posted speed limits, the limit is 15 mph. Most are posted at trail heads on information boards, not along the trail. Legislators and regulators I've spoken to say there isn't money, or desire of the public to enforce speed limits. It's easier and cheaper to ban than enforce. Not a very creative solution.

Most of the people on this forum are older and aren't burning up the trails. I suspect that's why this is so alarming. We paid for it, yet we can't use it. But when you do a search for ebikes on YouTube, there's plenty of speed on display. Even ebike sellers post videos of bikes topping 30 and 40 mph. Everybody thinks it cool... except the land managers. They have a convincing argument to the general population. One of the most difficult questions I had to answer is: How can we tell the difference between a class 1 and a class 3 ebike? What makes answering this question even more difficult are the sellers selling 28 mph ebikes with throttles and calling them class 3.

Our local land managers split the baby pretty good. When we arranged demo rides for local administrators, regulators and law enforcement they loved riding the bikes. The chairman of the advisory board told me that day that they want as many people using these outdoor venues as possible.

I live and ride in mostly rural and remote locations. Speed limits are really impractical and unworkable. It's fine if the managers want to post them. Most people won't see them the way they are currently posted and no one wants to pay for enforcement. I'd rather the money go to developing more miles of trails.