Be aware, pedal-assisted bikes are NOT ebikes

Cowlitz

Well-Known Member
Not really an issue given a plethora of past injuries. I ride only very improved trails anymore or old logging roads. Worse come to worse,
I´ll plead personal mobility device. Very unlikely I´ll ever see a ranger, even so, bet I see him 1st.
Or her. Got a lot of hers out there.
 

Gordon71

Active Member
" Under federal law, an electric bicycle is referred to as a “low-speed electric bicycle,” which is defined as “a two- or three-wheeled vehicle with fully operable pedals and an electric motor of less than 750 watts (1 h.p.), whose maximum speed on a paved level surface, when powered solely by such a motor while ridden by an operator who weighs 170 pounds, is less than 20 mph.” Significantly, this definition provides a maximum assisted speed that an electric bicycle can travel when being powered only by the motor, but does not provide a maximum assisted speed for when an electric bicycle is being powered by a combination of human and motor power. " - https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/static.peopleforbikes.org/uploads/E-Bike Law Primer v3 (1).pdf

The Right to Travel by Human Power


That describes my class 2 perfectly after I unplug the throttle which I do prior to entering those trails.
 

Hectors Ghost

Active Member
" Under federal law, an electric bicycle is referred to as a “low-speed electric bicycle,” which is defined as “a two- or three-wheeled vehicle with fully operable pedals and an electric motor of less than 750 watts (1 h.p.), whose maximum speed on a paved level surface, when powered solely by such a motor while ridden by an operator who weighs 170 pounds, is less than 20 mph.” Significantly, this definition provides a maximum assisted speed that an electric bicycle can travel when being powered only by the motor, but does not provide a maximum assisted speed for when an electric bicycle is being powered by a combination of human and motor power. " - https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/static.peopleforbikes.org/uploads/E-Bike Law Primer v3 (1).pdf

The Right to Travel by Human Power


That describes my class 2 perfectly after I unplug the throttle which I do prior to entering those trails.
Yup, begrudgingly disconnect it.
 

Gordon71

Active Member
Yup, begrudgingly disconnect it.
Yes indeed. The only time I've fallen was a time I was stopped at the bottom of a hill in a high gear. Normally I would have given it a shot of throttle to get rolling but,as it was disconnected I tried to get rolling with the pedals and just tipped over landing mostly on my left arm and losing about a quarter size patch of skin in the process.
 

Hectors Ghost

Active Member
Yes indeed. The only time I've fallen was a time I was stopped at the bottom of a hill in a high gear. Normally I would have given it a shot of throttle to get rolling but,as it was disconnected I tried to get rolling with the pedals and just tipped over landing mostly on my left arm and losing about a quarter size patch of skin in the process.
I wish I could say "the only time" when it comes to... mishaps. My biggest problem is getting used to the throttle being there and expecting it even if I have disconnected it. I had one Ranger agree to let me continue if I disconnected it, the only time I have been questioned and I was the one that started a conversation. I use a Rohloff Speed-hub driven by a BaFang mid-drive. You stop peddling to shift a Speed-hub so the two work together beautifully. Using the drive to start rolling with a loaded tour bike is like heaven, even uphill. I still fall now and then but less often now <knock on wood>. If you like having a throttle but want to maximize range try using a Giant Green Button while riding. It lets you use only leg power at the press of a button, a motor cut out. There are times when it's easy to keep the momentum rolling without the assit. I have learned to get more and more range using it.
 

JeffC57

Member
My hometown, Overland Park, Kansas has instituted a pilot program allowing class 1 and class 3 electric bikes on the paved trails. Regardless of your rig’s classification, the speed limit on the trail is 20 mph. That’s a very reasonable top speed limit as the trails have many blind curves and lots of walking or jogging humans and dogs. The pilot program lasts until 11/21. As a class 3 owner, I hope it becomes permanent.

 

Hectors Ghost

Active Member
Regardless of your rig’s classification, the speed limit on the trail is 20 mph. That’s a very reasonable top speed limit as the trails have many blind curves and lots of walking or jogging humans and dogs. The pilot program lasts until 11/21.
So who monitors the speeds? I have the ability to ride at 35 mph continuously for a few hours on those surfaces. What stops the dumbasses? Surely not a speed limit. But I do agree that just because I can ride at that speed doesn't mean that I do... except on surface streets. However, limiting the H.P. isn't the way to go because I often move a few hundred pounds of gear while touring and seldom exceed 20 mph. The torque used for climbing with a load rather than speed. I find myself bypassing congested trails and using roads when I want to ride faster.
 

JeffC57

Member
So who monitors the speeds? I have the ability to ride at 35 mph continuously for a few hours on those surfaces. What stops the dumbasses? Surely not a speed limit. But I do agree that just because I can ride at that speed doesn't mean that I do... except on surface streets. However, limiting the H.P. isn't the way to go because I often move a few hundred pounds of gear while touring and seldom exceed 20 mph. The torque used for climbing with a load rather than speed. I find myself bypassing congested trails and using roads when I want to ride faster.
The trails follow the streams and are paved with asphalt. The asphalt is quite bumpy in many areas because it is in a flood zone and some parts haven’t been repaved in several years. So, the trails have natural speed bumps but there’s really nobody to monitor the speeds. I think the city is simply trying to set boundaries by setting a speed limit on the trail. I typically ride them in the mid to upper teens and usually only get passed on the newer smooth portions by skinny tired road bikers. I’m lucky to be retired so I can ride the trails when they are less congested and like you hit the streets when I want to go faster.
 
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Hectors Ghost

Active Member
The trails follow the streams and are paved with asphalt. The asphalt is quite bumpy in many areas because it is in a flood zone and some parts haven’t been repaved in several years. So, the trails have natural speed bumps but there’s really nobody to monitor the speeds. I think the city is simply trying to set boundaries by setting a speed limit on the trail. I typically ride them in the mid to upper teens and usually only get passed on the newer smooth portions by skinny tired road bikers. I’m lucky to be retired so I can ride the trails when they are less congested and like you hit the streets when I want to go faster.
I try and stay away from the local trails on weekends... although it can be fun to chase some of the speed riders, who by the way, ride at speeds in excess of 25 mph all the time. Should they be limited to 20 mph now just because I have to be limited? I let them stay in front and even ride away from me for a few miles and then see what they have. No one has ever kept up with me and 1 h.p. of assist if I want to waste the power to ride fast. This guy never even considered that I would be able to catch him let alone ride away from him. -

But... using neglected riding infrastructure as a speed control isn't the way to do it.
 

Browneye

Well-Known Member
Stick with the federal definition and you can ride a Class-1 ebike anywhere in America that bicycles are allowed with all the rights and priveledges afforded cyclists in America. That doesn't mean that physics isn't still on the side of the larger mass so ride safe.

Not true for mixed-use offroad single track trails. They are governed seperately, and is up to the local land manager for the locale.
Ebikes are allowed anywhere motorized vehicles are on any public land, or where regular bicycles are allowed.

There is a distinction. And you WILL get cited, or potentially impounded. Mountain biking is in it's own class. Everywhere else you're good to go.
 
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JeffC57

Member
Should they be limited to 20 mph now just because I have to be limited?
Your video shows a very cool trail that I'd love to ride someday but the ones here are not like that. They are in a flood plane with creek on one side and in most areas flanked by mature trees on both sides. Ahead sight distance is often about 100 ft., sometimes less as the trail goes through almost a constant winding alignment. The tree canopy often covers the trail with leaves, acorns, hedge apples etc. This week the squirrels are especially active and a couple of them have bounced off my front spokes as they forage for their food. Most road crossings are at creek level (below the road) and can get mucked up when the water rises after a hard rain. When the trail crosses the creek, they use a steel framed bridge with wood plank decking, so time to get your butt off the seat. The point I'm trying to make is these trails are not intended for fast travel; regardless of the level of maintenance. Because of the tricky topography and drainage issues, they have tried multiple surface materials and construction methods. Some worked better than others and we can't expect a smooth as glass surface all through a 23 mile trail built in a flood plane. The 20 MPH speed limit applies to all bikes, not just the electric ones and is reasonable for the conditions on the trail. As for the dumb**ses who consistently exceed the speed limit, it's only a matter of time before they wipe out; hopefully not taking out an innocent pedestrian in the process. My hope is that during this trial period, we don't have any serious e-bike vs. pedestrian crashes and the city decides to ban my Vado SL 5 from the trail.
 
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Hectors Ghost

Active Member
...My hope is that during this trial period, we don't have any serious e-bike vs. pedestrian crashes and the city decides to ban my Vado SL 5 from the trail.
Sounds like a trail that you want to ride during all seasons to watch the changes. I stopped feeding squirrels while riding my bike, the music started to attract then out of the woods and onto the trail in front of me. I've had some close calls. Had a few close encounters with local crows that have known me for a few years. The problem I see is that "your" trail sounds just exactly like the place to ride (race) Class-3 eMTBs. Big fat-tire short-range SUVs. The surface becomes less important when they can climb/crawl through areas people don't want to walk. I do understand flood planes, I underestimated one last year.

11 Jul 19 - 71 miles w/front panniers & trailer on less than 15Ah... 1/2 the packs capacity.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/RD1NrDPCZQuHpWja9
 
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JeffC57

Member
Sounds like a trail that you want to ride during all seasons to watch the changes. I stopped feeding squirrels while riding my bike, the music started to attract then out of the woods and onto the trail in front of me. I've had some close calls. Had a few close encounters with local crows that have known me for a few years. The problem I see is that "your" trail sounds just exactly like the place to ride (race) Class-3 eMTBs. Big fat-tire short-range SUVs. The surface becomes less important when they can climb/crawl through areas people don't want to walk. I do understand flood planes, I underestimated one last year.

11 Jul 19 - 71 miles w/front panniers & trailer on less than 15Ah... 1/2 the packs capacity.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/RD1NrDPCZQuHpWja9
You are right, an eMTB would be ideal on these trails....maybe someday.
Thanks for sharing your cool videos and pictures.
Ride Safe
 

Dallant

Well-Known Member
Yeah, well it's been pissing down rain for the last two days straight here so be careful what you wish for.
Yeah, I hear you! Spent many a day hiking thru rain in Washington and Oregon. Given all the fires, you folks should be very happy to have rain now!