Biktrix 3rd tier support response....

roshan

Well-Known Member
Somebody needs to better inform Alex on your 3rd tier support team. He's apparently not aware of that fact, made clear by his statement in his response to me above.

Further, details regarding that information and exactly what you are changing, should be MUCH easier to access. Had it been yesterday, you would likely have sold a bike rather than cleaning up a mess like this one....

Alan Hicks

We would love to detail out firmware changes just as much as car tuner companies would love to publish their recipe. We are actually are not interested or paid to help people that don't buy from us on how make advanced changes. We don't have the support bandwidth to support non-paying customers. Our customers that have bought from us get first preference of service from us. We are okay with not getting every sale. We completely understand that we cannot sell to everyone, all the time.

Yes, Alex could have worded that email better. Note that it is not that typical for us to get advanced programming questions from non-customers. So this does make it a bit difficult to gauge how technical to get on an email. That being said, Alex's email should have said:

" The stock programming on our bikes (custom firmware loaded from Bafang) from Bafang is the best way to go for most cases - they have developed the programming to work well on the motor. However, for people who want to tinker on the bike further, programming changes can be made. They are not transformative changes, but they can be nice little tweaks. We can ship the bike with the stock programming and include a programming cable that you can use with a Windows computer to make changes as you wish. "
 

AHicks

Well-Known Member
Roshan, listen to what you are saying! I was getting ready to give you an order for a new bike for God's sake. And inquiring about what programming was available. A non paying customer? What the hell....

No, that was NOT the question. The question was what programming services do you offer? How the heck can that be misnderstood by anyone?
 

AHicks

Well-Known Member
Roshan, seriously, don't try to blow me off like I'm some sort of idiot looking for freebie technical handouts. I heard of your reputation, read some of your "how to's" and wanted to see if I might be able to take advantage of firmware changes before the bike was shipped. It's that simple. Or something that SHOULD be that simple, wasn't.

You have some internal issues to deal with. That and a few notes on the Biktrix website would have prevented this. Don't try to paint me as the issue.

Alan Hicks
 

TForan

Well-Known Member
Roshan, seriously, don't try to blow me off like I'm some sort of idiot looking for freebie technical handouts. I heard of your reputation, read some of your "how to's" and wanted to see if I might be able to take advantage of firmware changes before the bike was shipped. It's that simple. Or something that SHOULD be that simple, wasn't.

You have some internal issues to deal with. That and a few notes on the Biktrix website would have prevented this. Don't try to paint me as the issue.

Alan Hicks

You said you put a deposit on another bike . Why bust Roshan's balls ?
 

Eddy23

New Member
@AHicks Roshan or Biktrix is not trying to 'paint' you with anything. This thread was started by you since you believed in making a point, isn't it? Your point was noted and we actually agreed with you on two scores. Further, it seems that your drive with this whole aspect of the conversation is to convey your idea to an ideal situation for a customer like you.

Don't you have anything to agree with us? If no fine, if yes then that's rational. Is this a forum to argue or to discuss? Pick a choice, Sir!
 

Deafcat

Active Member
Haven't been on in a while but I get the feeling there's some confusion about remote programming service, which I believe is a very new service from Biktrix (I wasn't even aware of it till I found this topic).

I think maybe that response from Alex was misworded slightly: the excellent "stock" programming which works great for most of us, is of course Biktrix tuned firmware + programming, which Bafang loads into the motor control and displays, keep in mind I think there are hardware changes on bafangs end over the years so there are some variations going on... looks like Roshan already pointed all of that out, but it's worth re-iterating that the default Biktrix ultra programming is fantastic.

As for the user-parameters programming which can be done over USB, Biktrix provides the cable for you (they didn't used to), then goes a step further to offer Remote Programming service for $75 hourly, which I imagine involves a tech support rep helping over the phone to install appropriate remote PC software solution for the end user, get the bike hooked up, and make the desired changes.

What kind of changes are made, are minor tweaks, like throttle behavior: a good example I ran into, is wanting throttle response at PAS 0, since I often bump my control pad under the pogies during winter, and ran into the scenario a few times where I bumped the bike down to PAS 0 and didn't have throttle response at a light turning green... Another example would be PAS power scaling behavior. That sort of minor, customer-specific tuning is case by case, so Biktrix offers you a cable (you can learn the programming yourself thru plenty of online resources), and for less technically-inclined customers, you can then take advantage of the remote programming service.


Conclusion: I'm very glad as a longtime Biktrix customer that they continue to evolve their services, and even though the OP seems to have a beef with them for some communication challenges, I'm glad this topic came up so we could learn more about those services. This is exactly the sort of continuous improvement attitude that makes me a proud customer and owner of several of their bikes, not to mention that you can actually chat about this kind of thing with the owner of the company on forums or social media...
 

TForan

Well-Known Member
Haven't been on in a while but I get the feeling there's some confusion about remote programming service, which I believe is a very new service from Biktrix (I wasn't even aware of it till I found this topic).

I think maybe that response from Alex was misworded slightly: the excellent "stock" programming which works great for most of us, is of course Biktrix tuned firmware + programming, which Bafang loads into the motor control and displays, keep in mind I think there are hardware changes on bafangs end over the years so there are some variations going on... looks like Roshan already pointed all of that out, but it's worth re-iterating that the default Biktrix ultra programming is fantastic.

As for the user-parameters programming which can be done over USB, Biktrix provides the cable for you (they didn't used to), then goes a step further to offer Remote Programming service for $75 hourly, which I imagine involves a tech support rep helping over the phone to install appropriate remote PC software solution for the end user, get the bike hooked up, and make the desired changes.

What kind of changes are made, are minor tweaks, like throttle behavior: a good example I ran into, is wanting throttle response at PAS 0, since I often bump my control pad under the pogies during winter, and ran into the scenario a few times where I bumped the bike down to PAS 0 and didn't have throttle response at a light turning green... Another example would be PAS power scaling behavior. That sort of minor, customer-specific tuning is case by case, so Biktrix offers you a cable (you can learn the programming yourself thru plenty of online resources), and for less technically-inclined customers, you can then take advantage of the remote programming service.


Conclusion: I'm very glad as a longtime Biktrix customer that they continue to evolve their services, and even though the OP seems to have a beef with them for some communication challenges, I'm glad this topic came up so we could learn more about those services. This is exactly the sort of continuous improvement attitude that makes me a proud customer and owner of several of their bikes, not to mention that you can actually chat about this kind of thing with the owner of the company on forums or social media...


Very well stated .👍
 

AHicks

Well-Known Member
@AHicks Roshan or Biktrix is not trying to 'paint' you with anything. This thread was started by you since you believed in making a point, isn't it? Your point was noted and we actually agreed with you on two scores. Further, it seems that your drive with this whole aspect of the conversation is to convey your idea to an ideal situation for a customer like you.

Don't you have anything to agree with us? If no fine, if yes then that's rational. Is this a forum to argue or to discuss? Pick a choice, Sir!

Fair enough. I did share that Roshan was somebody I respected as an authority on the Ultra motor programming, noting I had even read a lot of his work. This was the reason I was drawn to Biktrix to start with!

I wasn't looking for an "ideal situation" I was looking for a fair shake on the purchase of a new bike. Truth be known, I was also looking/checking out Biktrix support. I'm now glad I did.

YOU wrote that I "misunderstood" your agents response. I don't agree. I have a pretty good comprehension of the written word. With no reason to doubt him, I took his response literally. There was no misunderstanding. It was a crappy response that didn't even hint at the same story Roshan is pushing in his response. I misunderstood?

To make a bad situation worse, Roshan's response, alluding to the fact that as much as he'd like to, he's not into sharing programming info for free, to a non paying customer! Please, how is that relelvant here?

Then, Roshan totally misquoting the question that started all this... on purpose, or accidentally?

Bottom line, it should be pretty clear Biktrix can use this incident to better itself. For that to happen, they're going to have to admit there's an issue that needs to be dealt with.
 

roshan

Well-Known Member
Fair enough. I did share that Roshan was somebody I respected as an authority on the Ultra motor programming, noting I had even read a lot of his work. This was the reason I was drawn to Biktrix to start with!

I wasn't looking for an "ideal situation" I was looking for a fair shake on the purchase of a new bike. Truth be known, I was also looking/checking out Biktrix support. I'm now glad I did.

YOU wrote that I "misunderstood" your agents response. I don't agree. I have a pretty good comprehension of the written word. With no reason to doubt him, I took his response literally. There was no misunderstanding. It was a crappy response that didn't even hint at the same story Roshan is pushing in his response. I misunderstood?

To make a bad situation worse, Roshan's response, alluding to the fact that as much as he'd like to, he's not into sharing programming info for free, to a non paying customer! Please, how is that relelvant here?

Then, Roshan totally misquoting the question that started all this... on purpose, or accidentally?

Bottom line, it should be pretty clear Biktrix can use this incident to better itself. For that to happen, they're going to have to admit there's an issue that needs to be dealt with.

We (at least not me) are not all masters of the English language. End of the day, I think anyone reading this thread can see what you expect, what we can provide, and that's what matters.

Have a good one!
 

Gionnirocket

Well-Known Member
Haven't been on in a while but I get the feeling there's some confusion about remote programming service, which I believe is a very new service from Biktrix (I wasn't even aware of it till I found this topic).

I think maybe that response from Alex was misworded slightly: the excellent "stock" programming which works great for most of us, is of course Biktrix tuned firmware + programming, which Bafang loads into the motor control and displays, keep in mind I think there are hardware changes on bafangs end over the years so there are some variations going on... looks like Roshan already pointed all of that out, but it's worth re-iterating that the default Biktrix ultra programming is fantastic.

As for the user-parameters programming which can be done over USB, Biktrix provides the cable for you (they didn't used to), then goes a step further to offer Remote Programming service for $75 hourly, which I imagine involves a tech support rep helping over the phone to install appropriate remote PC software solution for the end user, get the bike hooked up, and make the desired changes.

What kind of changes are made, are minor tweaks, like throttle behavior: a good example I ran into, is wanting throttle response at PAS 0, since I often bump my control pad under the pogies during winter, and ran into the scenario a few times where I bumped the bike down to PAS 0 and didn't have throttle response at a light turning green... Another example would be PAS power scaling behavior. That sort of minor, customer-specific tuning is case by case, so Biktrix offers you a cable (you can learn the programming yourself thru plenty of online resources), and for less technically-inclined customers, you can then take advantage of the remote programming service.


Conclusion: I'm very glad as a longtime Biktrix customer that they continue to evolve their services, and even though the OP seems to have a beef with them for some communication challenges, I'm glad this topic came up so we could learn more about those services. This is exactly the sort of continuous improvement attitude that makes me a proud customer and owner of several of their bikes, not to mention that you can actually chat about this kind of thing with the owner of the company on forums or social media...

I hope Roshan let's you go home early today... you earned it!
Eddy23... You'll have to pick up the slack. . .
 

roshan

Well-Known Member
I hope Roshan let's you go home early today... you earned it!
Eddy23... You'll have to pick up the slack. . .

We don't even have a defined work timing at our HQ. The 30+ people that work here use their judgement to determine when to work and when not to. It's been working great so far :p
 

roshan

Well-Known Member
Roshan, listen to what you are saying! I was getting ready to give you an order for a new bike for God's sake. And inquiring about what programming was available. A non paying customer? What the hell....

No, that was NOT the question. The question was what programming services do you offer? How the heck can that be misnderstood by anyone?

Please don't take it personal. Your original question was a close ended question to which I simply gave you a close ended answer.

Here's the answer to your open ended question "What programming services do you offer?": we generally offer no programming services to non-customers. We are not a software/programming company. What we offer is awesome bikes with pre-programmed firmware on our bikes that enables the motor to offers smooth and predictable pedal assist - the way we like it and our past 1000s of customers like it. If a customer doesn't like the way it works, we can work with them to figure out what they need and help them program their bikes accordingly. In one of my posts above, I have detailed the 5 step process this involves.

I hope that answers your question.
 

Gionnirocket

Well-Known Member
We don't even have a defined work timing at our HQ. The 30+ people that work here use their judgement to determine when to work and when not to. It's been working great so far :p

I've tried to work that way whenever possible. It really is the best model for productivity.
Then again I would ask one employer at 10am... if I work through lunch, can I leave now?
 

AHicks

Well-Known Member
Please don't take it personal. Your original question was a close ended question to which I simply gave you a close ended answer.

Here's the answer to your open ended question "What programming services do you offer?": we generally offer no programming services to non-customers. We are not a software/programming company. What we offer is awesome bikes with pre-programmed firmware on our bikes that enables the motor to offers smooth and predictable pedal assist - the way we like it and our past 1000s of customers like it. If a customer doesn't like the way it works, we can work with them to figure out what they need and help them program their bikes accordingly. In one of my posts above, I have detailed the 5 step process this involves.

I hope that answers your question.

I am at a total loss for the logic behind any reference to "non paying" customers as regarding this conversation. Do you not understand I was ready to purchase one of your bikes yesterday? My wallet was out and the credit card was on the desk! Was I asking you for a "how to" of any sort? It was a "what do you offer" and "what does it cost" question! Is that not a reasonable question for a potential new bike customer to ask? Is that asking for something for free? If so, just what do you consider to be the price of admission here? To be taken seriously as a potential customer, NOT somebody fishing for free info?

Have another look at the note i was given. Your tech made no mention of any preprogramming which was a direct contradiction to what I was told at the tier 2 support. She was great, admitted she was at the limit of her understanding, and graciously offered to forward my question to tier 3 support.

" The stock programming on our bikes (custom firmware loaded from Bafang) from Bafang is the best way to go for most cases." We can talk about what you would have liked for him (the tech) to have said. We can spin what that tech did/SHOULD have said a thousand ways for the next 2 weeks. In the end though, that doesn't change what he DID say one bit.

Roshan, I was looking for the kind of support you say you offer. I never did find it. Still don't know where to look or who to ask about it, or a method to contact them about it. I think THAT'S the issue here.

My point should be clear by now. You can admit there's an issue (or issues) and deal with them, or ignore them and pretend nothing happened - with your head in the sand.
Alan Hicks
 

AHicks

Well-Known Member
You said you put a deposit on another bike . Why bust Roshan's balls ?

This question is haunting me, so let me explain. I have no ill will here. For Bikrix or for Biktrix fans. I'm not trying to bust his balls. I've gone into great detail sharing exactly what happened. Instead of a thank you and moving on, I'm being made to look like an uninformed bad guy here, providing false statements and begging for proprietary information for free - all of which could not possibly be further from the truth. It would seem to me there are people here who don't care about what happenned or why. They're way more interested in covering their ass... and I find that frustrating. -Al
 

Gionnirocket

Well-Known Member
Al...at this point just move on.

If you want to know more about their proprietary special double secret hidden source code firmware, just look/ask around on the Biktrix forum. If there is any validity to this there should be some info/screenshots from the 1000s of euphoric customers. But to me it sounds like a marketing strategy and you'll be just fine making changes to the standard Bafang programming as you can tweak all that's necessary for a comfortable ride.
This reminds me of what I came across when looking to purchase the BBS02B and I passed by the Luna website. A lot of special & custom stuff there too.
 
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Clark Gryphyn

New Member
This question is haunting me, so let me explain. I have no ill will here. For Bikrix or for Biktrix fans. I'm not trying to bust his balls. I've gone into great detail sharing exactly what happened. Instead of a thank you and moving on, I'm being made to look like an uninformed bad guy here, providing false statements and begging for proprietary information for free - all of which could not possibly be further from the truth. It would seem to me there are people here who don't care about what happenned or why. They're way more interested in covering their ass... and I find that frustrating. -Al

Kinda seems like the only person getting their undies in a twist is you, man. Chill out a bit. We get it, you're smart. Still, miscommunication happens to the best of us. Doesn't mean anyone is out to get you.

In other news, you aren't going to have any trouble reprogramming the motor controller. There's even a handy guide on Biktrix's website that you can use for free, even if you haven't purchased a bike from them. I followed their directions and reprogrammed the throttle to have a smoother response, and I'm not that bright. Doesn't make sense that you're still on here burning up inside over the huge manatee.
 

Deafcat

Active Member
Al...at this point just move on.

If you want to know more about their proprietary special double secret hidden source code firmware, just look/ask around on the Biktrix forum. If there is any validity to this there should be some info/screenshots from the 1000s of euphoric customers. But to me it sounds like a marketing strategy and you'll be just fine making changes to the standard Bafang programming as you can tweak all that's necessary for a comfortable ride.
This reminds me of what I came across when looking to purchase the BBS02B and I passed by the Luna website. A lot of special & custom stuff there too.


Just a heads up: far as I know you can only change user parameters, not firmware. The firmware is what's in the motor controller and only bafang has the ability to reflash that... That's where the bulk of this so called "secret sauce" resides. The user parameters or "programming", is for the minor tweaks, that's the stuff we're generally referring to modifying here.

I could be wrong of course... But I'm fairly certain none of us will be reprogramming our motor controllers. The display programming is related to primarily throttle/pas input and other such elements.

Perhaps someone from Biktrix or Roshan could clarify that?
 

AHicks

Well-Known Member
Al...at this point just move on.

If you want to know more about their proprietary special double secret hidden source code firmware, just look/ask around on the Biktrix forum. If there is any validity to this there should be some info/screenshots from the 1000s of euphoric customers. But to me it sounds like a marketing strategy and you'll be just fine making changes to the standard Bafang programming as you can tweak all that's necessary for a comfortable ride.
This reminds me of what I came across when looking to purchase the BBS02B and I passed by the Luna website. A lot of special & custom stuff there too.

As usual, we're on the same page. I was all done with that last note. Thanks!