Bosch long distance integrated battery touring ebike

webcurl

Well-Known Member
Is it such a small segment that only R&M are interested in this space?
I believe in integrated powertubes because of 1) Protection & areodynamics of the battery & mount itself, 2) Security (keyed in), 3) Appearance.
I love the idea of how the new dual battery Homage integrates 2 into the downtube.
Can anyone from Bosch comment on if the system can still or ever did handle up to 4 batteries.
I'd like to see a touring bike with:
2 Powertube 625's side by side in the downtube, these being the main batteries and a perfect place to put the majority of battery weight in the middle/front.
A powertube 500 or 625 in the top tube AND seat tube BUT the provision to install internally small plastic covers over each battery end mount/socket so that when no battery is installed in the tube the whole tube becomes a storage compartment, preferably with an aluminum or other hard LOCKABLE cover. And the seat tube with an option for a special mount that can firmly house standard pet drink bottles or similar. Or of course install a 3rd or 4th battery.
And even if the Bosch system can't handle a 3rd or 4th battery, a place to store a 3rd or 4th securely would be good.
Also with a mens style triangle frame, mounting points that firmly hold in place a very wide frame bag that fills the space between top, seat & down tubes completely. This has the potential to be a very large storage area.
Also mount points for special wide top tube bags, also potentially large in volume but to be able to seal the mount points when not in use.
Decent tested gross weight capacity of 160kg or more.
Decent tested weight capacity on an optional front rack and a standard fixed rear rack and the rear rack being strong in all directions so that it needs to be mounted/attached to more points than just the rear axle area.
The rear end for a hardtail to handle up to 70mm tires (for extra tire suspension) and appropriate fenders (70mm width not 60 or 65) and thru axles.
The option of original twist shift Rohloff.
Gates belt.
And last but not least for Bosch to bring back and enhance the Travel charger (12VDC input) so as to allow people to charge their batteries in-car or Solar. Preferably with a 12-24VDC input.

Tout-Terrain seem to want to stick to steel frames which makes it difficult to integrate batteries.
Koga doesn't seem to know which direction to go in.
Many other touring bike brands are seemingly just tacking on the E.
This seems ok, still not ideal in my eyes but hard to get anywhere else: https://www.simplon.com/en/Bikes/E-Bikes/Kagu-Bosch-CX-275_b_124297

Am i being too specific?
 

rich c

Well-Known Member
Too specific? No, but you're asking for an extremely rare eBike for them to make that kind of major design option.
 

webcurl

Well-Known Member
I would have thought for instance in one of the lockable compartments (top or seat tube) a built-in emergency repair kit with spare tube, etc. that comes with the bike a selling feature.
And not even R&M have a battery cover (for when you don't want to use the battery) that doubles as a storage compartment.
Rare now, yes but would it be in the future?
 
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William - Bosch Team

Well-Known Member
"Can anyone from Bosch comment on if the system can still or ever did handle up to 4 batteries."

"And last but not least for Bosch to bring back and enhance the Travel charger (12VDC input) so as to allow people to charge their batteries in-car or Solar. Preferably with a 12-24VDC input."
First of all, that sounds like an awesome eBike you've dreamed up! :cool:

The Bosch System is only designed to work with (2) batteries maximum. It's never worked for more than that, and I've heard of no future plans to move in that direction, unfortunately. I've occasionally considered the same thing myself... (3-4) batteries would be fantastic for all-day/multi-day range. I'm not sure why this option has never existed... could be system limitations, regulatory/safety restrictions, or even something as simple as extremely low demand has never made it viable. You're best option is likely what you mentioned... dual-battery setup with storage for extra(s). One of the tech reps on our team uses a single-battery Bosch-equipped eBike for his longer trips, but with a modified a front rack to hold (2) more batteries that he can swap in during stops. Not perfect, but best option available.

I'm with you on the travel charger. It would be great to have. My understanding is that it went away due to low demand. There are no plans to bring it back currently, but I'll pass your feedback along.
 

ROCebike

Member
4 x 625 Wh batteries?! Thats like 30 lbs. Also, I doubt anyone is going to design a 4 battery software system.
A cover for the empty internal battery slot? Hmm doesnt the battery add some rigidity? If you remove it, it might risk frame strength. If not, then use a neoprene wrap. Cheap and available.
A travel charger can be rigged up with a 400 watt inverter available at HF or WM or any auto store. Use your existing charger and separate inverter box.
For such a bike, talk to Pushkar at Wattwagons. He's got something close for long distance touring.
 

webcurl

Well-Known Member
A travel charger can be rigged up with a 400 watt inverter available at HF or WM or any auto store. Use your existing charger and separate inverter box.
When you charge a Bosch from let's say a car cigarette socket with an inverter it goes like this:
12VDC (Cig socket) --> Inverter (12VDC -> 110-240VAC, up to 20% loss depending on design/quality) --> Bosch charger (110-240VAC -> 42VDC, up to 15% loss) --> Bosch battery
So for 100W from the cig socket you'd get roughly 75W into the battery. Roughly 13.3 hours to charge 1000Wh.
Their old "Travel Charger":
12VDC --> Bosch travel charger (12VDC -> 42VDC, up to 15% loss?) --> Bosch battery
So for 100W from the cig socket you'd get roughly 88W into the battery. Roughly 11.3 hours to charge 1000Wh.
 
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William - Bosch Team

Well-Known Member
A cover for the empty internal battery slot? Hmm doesnt the battery add some rigidity? If you remove it, it might risk frame strength. If not, then use a neoprene wrap. Cheap and available.

The Bosch Powertube battery is not part of the frame structure in any way, and is not a factor in rigidity. In terms of covering an unused compartment, some OEMs design the battery cover to attach to the frame, independent of battery, while other OEMs attach the cover to the t-slots on the aluminum battery extrusion itself. I suppose one might be able to source a spare cover, and find some way to hold it in place over the empty compartment, if the design normally had it attached to the battery.
 
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ROCebike

Member
When you charge a Bosch from let's say a car cigarette socket with an inverter it goes like this:
12VDC (Cig socket) --> Inverter (12VDC -> 110-240VAC, up to 20% loss depending on design/quality) --> Bosch charger (110-240VAC -> 42VDC, up to 15% loss) --> Bosch battery
So for 100W from the cig socket you'd get roughly 75W into the battery. Roughly 13.3 hours to charge 1000Wh.
Their old "Travel Charger":
12VDC --> Bosch travel charger (12VDC -> 42VDC, up to 15% loss?) --> Bosch battery
So for 100W from the cig socket you'd get roughly 88W into the battery. Roughly 11.3 hours to charge 1000Wh.
Good to know. Not really a difference if charging from a car. But that's a long drive! Actually I thought you were looking for something ASAP. Reread the OP and see that its only a wish list. My bad.
 

JVBulman

Active Member
Region
USA
What this tells me is that the practice of Powerpack/Powertube rentals needs to be more common. Hopefully in the coming years it will be.
 

webcurl

Well-Known Member
What this tells me is that the practice of Powerpack/Powertube rentals needs to be more common. Hopefully in the coming years it will be.
Not going to happen here in Australia, too much land for our population of Bosch ebike users :)