Bosch Smart System, Kiox 300, PowerTube 750, eBike Flow App

Court

Administrator
Staff member
Hi guys! Bosch sent me three press releases, and I spent time talking with two of their reps about the new "Smart System" to get a deep understanding and then share with you here. Check out this in-depth video, and some high resolution images below. Bosch Smart System was announced at their annual press event recently, which was streamed on YouTube and Facebook. Future Bosch electric bike hardware will be Smart System enabled, but unfortunately none of the older drive units, batteries, or displays can be upgraded. This is a new generation of ebike technology for them... The first round of hardware includes a new display, button pad (which can operate the bike without a display), battery, drive unit, charger, and smartphone app. My goal in creating this video was to be impartial and thorough; to explore the current generation of products from the perspective of an owner and review, and contrast that with the changes and my own hopes and observations of competing brands.

UPDATES:
  • While the LED Control Pad only has 5 squares, I was told that each square can go from blue to orange when that portion is about half full... so there are effectively 10 steps vs. 5, offering more precise battery estimation to users.
  • The new PowerPak 750 battery is 36 volt, 20.1 amp hours, 723.6 watt hours. All of the battery math seems to work out as less than advertised on Bosch batteries, but I was told that this is because they are actually running at higher voltage than advertised.
  • Riese & Müller, CUBE, Haibike, BULLS, Centurion, Ghost, Pole all have Smart System models listed for sale now.
  • My Bosch contacts said that the LED Control Pad does not appear to be dimmable, it has not been mentioned as a feature.



MORE UPDATES:
  • I think it would be easier to find the smartphone app if it were named "Bosch Smart Systems" instead of "Flow".
  • The Flow app is currently setup to adjust the bike and do mapping more than act as a display while riding... but that could change with future updates.
  • The Kiox 300 display panel is removable, and the bike can be operated purely with the LED Remote.
  • I suspect that the Kiox 300 runs entirely off of the ebike battery and does not have a rechargeable coin battery inside like the Bosch Intuvia and original Bosch Kiox displays.
  • Both the LED Remote and Kiox 300 adjust to ambient light automatically so they won't be too dim or too bright.
  • The Kiox 300 screen is about 2" diagonal, which isn't as large as I was expecting, the glass is wider and taller than the actual screen below.
  • The Flow smartphone app lets you adjust Eco and Turbo assist levels, including top speed. The Tour+ and eMTB assist levels are not adjustable.
  • The bottom edge of the LED remote has a USB-C port that is labeled for diagnostics and 5 volts and 600 ma/h but it does not provide charging support for portable electronics. I confirmed this with a Bosch representative. To me, this is too bad considering the new high capacity PowerTube 750 batteries, and the prior generation of displays that did offer charging (Intuvia, original Kiox, and Nyon). With this information, the positioning at the base of the control pad is less important... originally I was frustrated that a charging cable would interfere with a dropper lever and get in the way of the left grip depending on your hand position.
    bosch-smart-system-4-amp-ebike-charger.jpgbosch-smart-system-ebike-flow-smartphone-app.jpgbosch-smart-system-kiox-300-display-panel.jpgbosch-smart-system-led-button-pad-controller.jpgbosch-smart-system-performance-line-cx-motor.jpgbosch-smart-system-powerpack-750.jpg
 

Attachments

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  • Bosch-eBike_smart-system-led-remote.pdf
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SteveBorough

Active Member
Region
USA
Thanks for posting Court! I'm most worried that Nyon '21 development will cease, the device/launch is a disaster here in the US and needs significant development to make usable.
 

Court

Administrator
Staff member
Any thoughts or feedback from Bosch on what bike brands might be incorporating this new tech into their 2022 models?
Good question! I asked them and did some of my own searching. It appears that Riese & Müller, CUBE, Haibike, BULLS, Centurion, Ghost, Pole all have Smart System models for 2022, and most have them listed for sale now on their websites, but some are only Europe.
 

Court

Administrator
Staff member
Thanks for posting Court! I'm most worried that Nyon '21 development will cease, the device/launch is a disaster here in the US and needs significant development to make usable.
It's difficult to say exactly how things will play out, but I get a lot of confident feedback from Bosch that they will support for 7 years after a product is discontinued. This "support" may not include feature development, but it should mean repair and replacement.
 

fooferdoggie

Well-Known Member
It's difficult to say exactly how things will play out, but I get a lot of confident feedback from Bosch that they will support for 7 years after a product is discontinued. This "support" may not include feature development, but it should mean repair and replacement.
Plus the Nyon and Kiox are only a year or so old really. or is it 2?
 

TrailSeeker

Active Member
Region
USA
Good question! I asked them and did some of my own searching. It appears that Riese & Müller, CUBE, Haibike, BULLS, Centurion, Ghost, Pole all have Smart System models for 2022, and most have them listed for sale now on their websites, but some are only Europe.
Interesting... so Trek might not be (or at least isn't confirmed to be).
 

William - Bosch Team

Well-Known Member
The approximate 7 year support window starts after a product is no longer current, rather than at its initial release date. As Court mentioned, there won't be new software features added during that ~7 year time period, but updates for bug-fixes, optimization, etc. should still be available, along with replacement parts/hardware.

I don't know the exact timeline, but the Bosch smart system will be offered alongside the existing system for a while. Different options and choices for our OEM partners, depending on what they are designing their different models for. The smart system currently has limited hardware options- a single DU, battery, remote, and optional display. Model year 2023 will likely see more added, as Claus mentioned, but specifics are not available yet.
 

retiredNH

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
The approximate 7 year support window starts after a product is no longer current, rather than at its initial release date. As Court mentioned, there won't be new software features added during that ~7 year time period, but updates for bug-fixes, optimization, etc. should still be available, along with replacement parts/hardware.

I don't know the exact timeline, but the Bosch smart system will be offered alongside the existing system for a while. Different options and choices for our OEM partners, depending on what they are designing their different models for. The smart system currently has limited hardware options- a single DU, battery, remote, and optional display. Model year 2023 will likely see more added, as Claus mentioned, but specifics are not available yet.
So we can be reasonably certain that the smart hub and cobi.bike will stay as they are - no impoved functionality etc. That's a shame, because it could be a great foundation for an excellent device, especially since all the signals are there, and both android and apple are easy programming platforms. Makes me wonder why Bosch ever bought the system? I bet the folks behind the acquisition moved on long ago...
 

Sparky731

Active Member
Region
USA
Very cool! This will certainly boost the interest for and purpose of putting a battery on a bike. I doubt the Smart technology will be limited to electronic bikes with motors. Just the idea of a heads-up display and intelligent lighting is encouraging. Maybe the next generation will have our avatars riding in the metaverse.
 

Akrotiri

Well-Known Member
Region
Europe
It's too bad they leave us current owners behind, especially those of us who have the smartphone hub and Performance Speed drive units. No improvements or updates for either of those in over a year!
Only thing I’m steamed about is the over the air updates. That can be retroactively applied to our existing Gen4 motors.
 

SwiftySanders

Member
Region
USA
City
New York, NY
Get the smartphone hub and cobi.bike. Then you'll appreciate the Nyon.
OMG This is so true. 🤣 I was definitely in that camp. IMO, they need to scrap this stuff and instead make what they have better. Bluetooth and Wi-Fi exist already on the Nyon not sure why OTA couldn’t work on existing devices? Why not make the motor they have more power efficient and smaller? To me another bigger battery that‘s heavier is not the way to go here. 🤦🏾‍♂️
 
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Alaskan

Well-Known Member
Anyone know if the soon to be released flow app will work with gen 4 motors and Nyon 21 or will it only work with the new connected items. Disappointing to say the least if they don't enable Nyon 21 to update motor firmware as well.

I am sure there are lots of bikes, like Treks Domane + HP or Cannondale Topstone Neo Carbon whose geometries would not lend themselves to the longer formfactor of a 750 watt powertube. Modifying them to accommodate these longer batteries likely would change their ride characteristics negatively.

It is Hard to imagine Bosch would make orphans out of people who bought new tech in just one year. I hope Bosch thought about this and maximized backward feature compatibility to Gen 4 motors with Nyon, Kiox and Smart Phone Hub displays.
 

retiredNH

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
Anyone know if the soon to be released flow app will work with gen 4 motors and Nyon 21 or will it only work with the new connected items. Disappointing to say the least if they don't enable Nyon 21 to update motor firmware as well.

I am sure there are lots of bikes, like Treks Domane + HP or Cannondale Topstone Neo Carbon whose geometries would not lend themselves to the longer formfactor of a 750 watt powertube. Modifying them to accommodate these longer batteries likely would change their ride characteristics negatively.

It is Hard to imagine Bosch would make orphans out of people who bought new tech in just one year. I hope Bosch thought about this and maximized backward feature compatibility to Gen 4 motors with Nyon, Kiox and Smart Phone Hub displays.
Unfortunately, not hard for me to imagine. I have a performance speed motor on a bike with smartphone hub and cobi.bike. Guess how many updates I've seen this year? Nada. Last updates for my systems were July 2000. Nyon and CX seem to get the attention. Sad considering I paid $4300 each for two bikes.