Bosch Smart System, Kiox 300, PowerTube 750, eBike Flow App

webcurl

Well-Known Member
Region
Australia
I will confidently inform you that an update is not "just to be sure." William and I have visibility to all notes and ideas that go into upcoming software updates. Not only do these updates fix bugs, but they install new advancements to each product.
Do you have a mental memory map of the changes in the current and last 1 or 2 versions of every DU, Battery or Display or have you copied them and kept a record for yourselves? :)
A dealer may do this or may not. I'm sure they get asked a few times by customers.
Some of us end-users are curious to know if it's worth doing or not. Frustratingly we have no idea whatsoever though.
I truly am happy with my Bosch, don't get me wrong, i guess i just have too many expectations of detail & perfection from a German company :)

For example, Performance Line CX DU's existed on the market and then we launched eMTB mode, programmable via a software update. Same goes for Tour+ mode. The Lock Function for Kiox and Nyon was released via a software update---same goes for navigation on the Kiox.

If there was a changelog that listed the reason the torque upgrade is not available for a 2018 CX as for example (hypothetically):
"The 2018 or earlier CX model DU's have lower rated power MOSFET's in their electronics hardware as compared to the 2019 or later CX models, as a result the extra power drain from the motor needed to achieve the 85Nm upgrade would result in premature failure of those MOSFET's" or
"The enamel coating on the copper wire that encompasses the motor winding's of the 2018 or earlier model CX DU's cannot handle the extra heat generated by the 85Nm upgrade, the 2019 or later models have a more temperature resistant enamel coating"
Unfortunately for 2018 or earlier CX drive unit owners, none of these factors were foreseen back in 2018 (at that time, we were impressed with 75Nm).

I can't see any shame in educating us on these things and probably no trade secrets given away either?

Or the Tour+ mode is not available for manually shifted Rohloff equipped Bosch ebikes because...
 

gpburdell

Active Member
Region
USA
So my apologies, I’ve read a good chunk of the thread but didn’t find a definitive/clear confirmation….

Seems like if I were to buy a 2022 model Trek Allant+ 7S or 8S I’d be buying deprecated technology not compatible with the new Smart System?

True? Or did I miss something?
 

Stefan Mikes

Well-Known Member
Region
Europe
City
Mazovia, Poland
Seems like if I were to buy a 2022 model Trek Allant+ 7S or 8S I’d be buying deprecated technology not compatible with the new Smart System?
You are correct. Only few brands can offer the Smart System now. For Trek, they offer some of their top of the line e-MTBs with the Smart System only.
It will take a lot of time to totally redesign Trek e-bikes to enable them use the new battery, for instance.
 

webcurl

Well-Known Member
Region
Australia
So my apologies, I’ve read a good chunk of the thread but didn’t find a definitive/clear confirmation….

Seems like if I were to buy a 2022 model Trek Allant+ 7S or 8S I’d be buying deprecated technology not compatible with the new Smart System?

True? Or did I miss something?

On the other hand if you find an ebike you like that uses the new Smart System, as far as i know since September 2021 and who knows how long into the future you would be limited to:
1 model of battery (Powertube 750), dual battery possibility unknown.
1 model of display, no possible upgrade to the Nyon?
1 model of controller.
1 model of charger, no 2A or 6A available?
1 range of cables/harnesses.
No after market drive bearings, seal service kits, motor service repair kits, etc?:
 

Vim Fuego

Member
Bosch's messaging to dealers has always been to recommend software updates approx. every 6 months. This ensures that you have the most up-to-date software on all components, keeping in mind that the bulk of updates are generally improvements to functionality, stability, efficiency, etc., rather than new product features. An eBike system that goes too long without an update may experience random issues, exactly like a smartphone or computer that has gone too long without a software update. eBike system aside, any bicycle that is regularly ridden needs maintenance at least every 6 months, but ideally more frequently. This might include lubrication of cable/housing/chain/pivots/etc., safety check of all critical hardware, derailleur adjustments, tubeless sealant refresh, etc.

Regardless of the contents of a software update package, Bosch recommends the update to ensure everything keeps working as designed (or better!) They would not put all of the effort into creating and releasing the updates if they were not a benefit to the owners/riders of Bosch-equipped eBikes.

My dealer charges alot to put it in the computer to do a update, it's why I haven't bothered to date. I don't want to take it in, and the following day, a new update is released. Lack of transparency on what the charges are, that's the other issue.

My question. Do Bosch release all updates at the same time? We are all waiting for the slew of updates to the product range accounted for Early April 2022. If there are no new motor or battery updates released at that time, is it safe to assume there isn't anything imminent?
 

SPSP2

New Member
Region
Europe
So, none firmware update for CX Gen4 (till 2021) and Kiox yet? As I told...
Trek Rail bike.
 
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archerlc

Member
Unfortunately, not hard for me to imagine. I have a performance speed motor on a bike with smartphone hub and cobi.bike. Guess how many updates I've seen this year? Nada. Last updates for my systems were July 2000. Nyon and CX seem to get the attention. Sad considering I paid $4300 each for two bikes.
I paid $4300. COBI.Bike compass never worked. They just ignore the problem. Trek bike. Drives me crazy.