Brose motor

carl

New Member
Anyone have information on the new brose motor being introduced on the 2017 line of easy motion bikes? I understand that they are belt driven. Any Idea if the belts will stretch over time? I wonder what kind of test they have been subjected to. Carl.
 

JRA

Well-Known Member
The motor itself is not belt driven but it does drive the belt that takes the place of the chain. This method has proven reliable enough so there should be no issues. Brose is a company that makes lots of different electric motors for mainly automotive applications and I doubt anything leaves their facility without standardized testing.
 

Trail Cruiser

Well-Known Member
The motor (just like other mid drives) has 2 stage gear reduction. The belt drive is used in the secondary gear reduction with overall 30:1 ratio. All belt drives will have some degree of "stretch" over time but it has a tensioner to takes care of it for the life of the motor. Just like other reputable big manufacturers that spend a lot of time and money on Research & Development (R&D), I am confident that Brose will be very durable if used as designed by the manufacturer (not abused or hot rodded).
 

E-Wheels

Well-Known Member
I had this image tucked away in my archives which, if my memory serves me well is of the Brose motor showing the internals of the drive
If you look hard enough you can just about see the belt tensioning pulley at the bottom to the left of the pinion
Looks to be a solid drive with helical planetary gearing
 

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ChuckT

New Member
A bit off topic, but the comment got me wondering...if the picture of the motor is indeed the Brose, I am wondering if they, and Bosch, and whoever else uses plastic gears inside their motors, really expect these units to be functional for very many years. I know that geared ebike motors have been used for a while in Europe, and apparently any reliability problems experienced there are due to a range of causes, not just the gearing, but I have got to wonder about the use of any type of plastic for that application. I have too often had appliances fail because of problems with plastic in those types of applications.

I saw a video of a teardown of a "normal", not broken, Bosch unit and you could clearly see shards of plastic coming off of the gearing. That just doesn't seem good. I know that the plastics used are not everyday crappy plastic, but dang, there has got to be a better way.


The motor ...Just like other reputable big manufacturers that spend a lot of time and money on Research & Development (R&D), I am confident that Brose will be very durable if used as designed by the manufacturer (not abused or hot rodded).
 

Trail Cruiser

Well-Known Member
I am confident that Bosch spends a lot of time and money for it's research and development and it has been very reliable with virtually zero internal breakage. Even the bafang, the plastic gear is very robust that it outlived the metal gears.
 

bob armani

Well-Known Member
A bit off topic, but the comment got me wondering...if the picture of the motor is indeed the Brose, I am wondering if they, and Bosch, and whoever else uses plastic gears inside their motors, really expect these units to be functional for very many years. I know that geared ebike motors have been used for a while in Europe, and apparently any reliability problems experienced there are due to a range of causes, not just the gearing, but I have got to wonder about the use of any type of plastic for that application. I have too often had appliances fail because of problems with plastic in those types of applications.

I saw a video of a teardown of a "normal", not broken, Bosch unit and you could clearly see shards of plastic coming off of the gearing. That just doesn't seem good. I know that the plastics used are not everyday crappy plastic, but dang, there has got to be a better way.

Very Good Point Chuck. For the good of all e-bikers, they should be using a different material perhaps fiberglass fibers, etc. Even my auto garage door opener does not use plastic gears. They are fiberglass composite. It is all about cost savings over large production, then again, ebikes are not cheap either, so what gives here!!
 

Ravi Kempaiah

Well-Known Member
Anyone have information on the new brose motor being introduced on the 2017 line of easy motion bikes? I understand that they are belt driven. Any Idea if the belts will stretch over time? I wonder what kind of test they have been subjected to. Carl.

Here is a pic of the motor that you find in Revo line of bikes.
It's an automotive grade belt that is supposed to last roughly 25,000 miles with minimal stretching according to their bench test.
They manufacture 100 million motors per YEAR. So, they certainly know what they are doing. I was able to test the production model of Easy Motion 2017 bikes and they offer smooth power delivery.
Early versions of Brose used in Rotwild brand of bikes suffered some power drop issues but in the last 2 years, those have been solved. We have sold close to 50 bikes from BULLS and yet to see a motor failure. I am confident it will hold up well.

Personally, I do think all mid-drive motors can be improved a bit in terms of power output without damaging the drivetrain but the current offerings are pretty good if you're not looking for very high speed commuting.

(Link Removed - No Longer Exists)

Here is an interview with the CEO of Brose motors.

The factory in Berlin, where the e-bike motors are made, is also the production location for numerous car components of for almost any brand you can think of. Since the market entrance in the bicycles industry in 2013, automotive supplier Brose has been concentrated on Germany in particular. After the initial stage of product development and market penetration, Brose has entered the next phase of internationalisation. Joachim Volland explains.

What is the connection between Brose’s e-bike components and automotive products?

The link with our automotive products is obvious as the steering motor used in cars has been the basis for our e-bike system. Furthermore we are using the expertise of or automotive department to make cycling safer and more comfortable. Though we operate an e-bike dedicated R&D department and test centre in Berlin, Brose’s automotive engineering centre based in Würzburg, Germany is a major source for new product development. New e-bike concepts are being developed for our drive systems but also future ideas, which we presented with our ‘Visionbike’ at Eurobike.

Looking at Brose’s automotive background; is there more possible in terms of technologies that Brose can use for its electric bicycle products?

On (the) product level I think we have made an important step forward with the presentation of our ideas with the Visionbike at Eurobike to show the bicycle industry how automotive technology can be implemented in bicycles. Our background really comes in when talking about our production which is 100% automotive-based. Brose manufacturers more than 100 million electric motors for different purposes per year on different locations around the world. The bicycles industry can benefit from our automotive quality standards and industrial production levels for their high quality e-bikes.

E-bike motors with internal gearing are now entering the market like with the 2-geared mid-motor from Panasonic. How does Brose view this?

Our e-bike system is compatible with all external gearing systems and hubgears. Future development of the mid-motor system will concentrate on the downsizing and weight reduction. The integration of gears, let alone if it would be technically feasible or not, would only make the e-bike motor bulky and heavy, contrary to the current trends in the market.

What are your expectations for the overall e-bike market in the next five years? Where will it stand by 2022?

We expect a bigger differentiation of the e-bike market in price and category. A market growth of 40%-50% for the next seven to ten years as already stated by several parties in the bicycles industry is certainly realistic. The main potential of e-bikes is the possible attraction to the market of consumers who did not cycle before. On the OEM side we see an acceleration of the concentration trend, also because of financing issues. Of course there will always be niche players. The same goes for the supply side of the e-bike industry. Due to the initial investments product development and the manufacturing of e-bike systems can be done on an industrial scale. As a result of these expenses it will be very difficult for followers to keep up the technical developments. The same happened in the automotive industry at the start of this century when the economy of scale proved to be necessary for component manufacturers in order to survive.

Regarding future distribution we do believe in the position of the retailer. The huge growth of on-line sales of e-bikes as predicted in the past did not come. The e-bike is too complex and mass market consumers need the retailer’s service and advice. For sure the fanatics and in niches consumers will buy online, but check-ups known in the car industry will also come for e-bikes, only in a smart way.

It is said that e-bike sales will grow in popularity in markets that have a cultural background in cycling like the Netherlands Holland, Denmark, Germany as well as the Nordic countries. Will it be limited to these countries or do you expect that the southern European countries will also be big in e-bikes by 2022?

The rapid market penetration of e-bikes will also follow soon in markets outside the Netherlands, Germany and Denmark, though the reason will be different. In the US the market will take off in the next five years as soon as the legal issue regarding the use of e-bikes on trails will be solved. That is why we are now broadening our international market scope. Spain, France and Italy are potentially big markets for e-bikes. In these countries cycling was always related to sports but with the introduction of e-city and e-trekking bikes a new market with new category of consumers is opening up. The Mediterranean climate is very suitable for e-bike mobility and the popularity of the bicycle rental system Velib in Paris has been a great example of how cycling can change mobility.

What can you say on Brose’s current market position in e-bikes?

For the European market we are a top three supplier, though we do not disclose the number of systems we have put on the market. Compared to our competitors the major advantages for our customers are the production in Germany (Berlin) which expresses quality, the proximity of our R&D as well as the production to the market and the customization options of the system we offer our clients.

What e-bike categories are you aiming at specifically?

At the start we specially focussed on the MTB category in order to show the performance of the system and we did a series of special projects together with Rotwild and Specialized. Now we have established ourselves in this market we will aim more and more at the regular e-bike as that is what we prefer the most and regard as the biggest potential category.

In which markets specifically do you see new opportunities for the next years?

For Brose the main product category will be urban e-bikes as in that product category we can put the most emphasis on the reliability of our product. For the same reason cargo bikes have a big potential for us. I wouldn’t be surprise that even kids bikes will be electrified in the future. Thanks to the electric support it will be much easier for children to ride at the same speed as their parents making traffic much safer.
 
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bob armani

Well-Known Member
Here is a pic of the motor that you find in Revo line of bikes.
It's an automotive grade belt that is supposed to last roughly 25,000 miles with minimal stretching according to their bench test.
They manufacture 100 million motors per YEAR. So, they certainly know what they are doing. I was able to test the production model of Easy Motion 2017 bikes and they offer smooth power delivery.
Early versions of Brose used in Rotwild brand of bikes suffered some power drop issues but in the last 2 years, those have been solved. We have sold close to 50 bikes from BULLS and yet to see a motor failure. I am confident it will hold up well.

Personally, I do think all mid-drive motors can be improved a bit in terms of power output without damaging the drivetrain but the current offerings are pretty good if you're not looking for very high speed commuting.

Great info on Brose tech Ravi! Looks like their motors are keeping up well with Bosch as a direct competitor!

(Link Removed - No Longer Exists)

Here is an interview with the CEO of Brose motors.

The factory in Berlin, where the e-bike motors are made, is also the production location for numerous car components of for almost any brand you can think of. Since the market entrance in the bicycles industry in 2013, automotive supplier Brose has been concentrated on Germany in particular. After the initial stage of product development and market penetration, Brose has entered the next phase of internationalisation. Joachim Volland explains.

What is the connection between Brose’s e-bike components and automotive products?

The link with our automotive products is obvious as the steering motor used in cars has been the basis for our e-bike system. Furthermore we are using the expertise of or automotive department to make cycling safer and more comfortable. Though we operate an e-bike dedicated R&D department and test centre in Berlin, Brose’s automotive engineering centre based in Würzburg, Germany is a major source for new product development. New e-bike concepts are being developed for our drive systems but also future ideas, which we presented with our ‘Visionbike’ at Eurobike.

Looking at Brose’s automotive background; is there more possible in terms of technologies that Brose can use for its electric bicycle products?

On (the) product level I think we have made an important step forward with the presentation of our ideas with the Visionbike at Eurobike to show the bicycle industry how automotive technology can be implemented in bicycles. Our background really comes in when talking about our production which is 100% automotive-based. Brose manufacturers more than 100 million electric motors for different purposes per year on different locations around the world. The bicycles industry can benefit from our automotive quality standards and industrial production levels for their high quality e-bikes.

E-bike motors with internal gearing are now entering the market like with the 2-geared mid-motor from Panasonic. How does Brose view this?

Our e-bike system is compatible with all external gearing systems and hubgears. Future development of the mid-motor system will concentrate on the downsizing and weight reduction. The integration of gears, let alone if it would be technically feasible or not, would only make the e-bike motor bulky and heavy, contrary to the current trends in the market.

What are your expectations for the overall e-bike market in the next five years? Where will it stand by 2022?

We expect a bigger differentiation of the e-bike market in price and category. A market growth of 40%-50% for the next seven to ten years as already stated by several parties in the bicycles industry is certainly realistic. The main potential of e-bikes is the possible attraction to the market of consumers who did not cycle before. On the OEM side we see an acceleration of the concentration trend, also because of financing issues. Of course there will always be niche players. The same goes for the supply side of the e-bike industry. Due to the initial investments product development and the manufacturing of e-bike systems can be done on an industrial scale. As a result of these expenses it will be very difficult for followers to keep up the technical developments. The same happened in the automotive industry at the start of this century when the economy of scale proved to be necessary for component manufacturers in order to survive.

Regarding future distribution we do believe in the position of the retailer. The huge growth of on-line sales of e-bikes as predicted in the past did not come. The e-bike is too complex and mass market consumers need the retailer’s service and advice. For sure the fanatics and in niches consumers will buy online, but check-ups known in the car industry will also come for e-bikes, only in a smart way.

It is said that e-bike sales will grow in popularity in markets that have a cultural background in cycling like the Netherlands Holland, Denmark, Germany as well as the Nordic countries. Will it be limited to these countries or do you expect that the southern European countries will also be big in e-bikes by 2022?

The rapid market penetration of e-bikes will also follow soon in markets outside the Netherlands, Germany and Denmark, though the reason will be different. In the US the market will take off in the next five years as soon as the legal issue regarding the use of e-bikes on trails will be solved. That is why we are now broadening our international market scope. Spain, France and Italy are potentially big markets for e-bikes. In these countries cycling was always related to sports but with the introduction of e-city and e-trekking bikes a new market with new category of consumers is opening up. The Mediterranean climate is very suitable for e-bike mobility and the popularity of the bicycle rental system Velib in Paris has been a great example of how cycling can change mobility.

What can you say on Brose’s current market position in e-bikes?

For the European market we are a top three supplier, though we do not disclose the number of systems we have put on the market. Compared to our competitors the major advantages for our customers are the production in Germany (Berlin) which expresses quality, the proximity of our R&D as well as the production to the market and the customization options of the system we offer our clients.

What e-bike categories are you aiming at specifically?

At the start we specially focussed on the MTB category in order to show the performance of the system and we did a series of special projects together with Rotwild and Specialized. Now we have established ourselves in this market we will aim more and more at the regular e-bike as that is what we prefer the most and regard as the biggest potential category.

In which markets specifically do you see new opportunities for the next years?

For Brose the main product category will be urban e-bikes as in that product category we can put the most emphasis on the reliability of our product. For the same reason cargo bikes have a big potential for us. I wouldn’t be surprise that even kids bikes will be electrified in the future. Thanks to the electric support it will be much easier for children to ride at the same speed as their parents making traffic much safer.