BtrPower - LiFePO4 failure after only 20 uses - WARRANTY WAS HONORED

HansTrio

Member
Region
USA
Hello,
Back in June I bought a BtrPower 20Ah battery on ebay for $320.00

It's been about 7 months and I've used it about 20 times.
During that time it has been meticulously maintained at 76F inside and kept at storage voltage when not in use.
The battery has never been dropped or abused on ANY way. In fact, it has had a gentle, cared for life so far.

It has at least one dead cell (maybe more) and or the BMS has failed..
Capacity had dropped to 8.13 Ah.

It supposedly has a 1 year warranty and I have contacted the vendor on ebay.

UPDATE
Seller sent replacement and after some crazy FedEx mixups, I have the replacement.
 
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EMGX

Well-Known Member
I have a 10ah version of this battery. I don't use it much because it is heavy at 10# but it has been flawless and provided great range. You might want to check ebay for resolution if they won't honor their warranty. Personally I have only bought Amazon sourced batteries because, in my experience, Amazon stands up for buyers when disputing with sellers. I ended up with a free 48v 15ah battery due to an ordering snafu which wasn't due to me. The seller made nonsensical responses to the issue and Amazon refunded the purchase price and I got to keep the battery (which I had no use for at the time but since have). A couple times over the years Amazon has similarly refunded other purchases for defective or misrepresented items and has been a great buffer especially when dealing with China based sellers. My impression of ebay is that you are pretty much on your own but post up the final disposition in your case.
 

HansTrio

Member
Region
USA
I have a 10ah version of this battery. I don't use it much because it is heavy at 10# but it has been flawless and provided great range.

That was exactly my experience.
I used it a few times and it worked great....then it didn't.

After hearing from the seller, it seems my fears were not warranted.
They have shipped me a replacement and even covered the shipping. Very Fast delivery it should arrive in the next few days.
I was afraid I was taken at frst but iMotorBattery seems to have honored their warranty.
 
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EMGX

Well-Known Member
That was exactly my experience.
I used it a few times and it worked great....then it didn't.

The US government has pretty much allowed Chinese vendors to completely skip liability and responsibility and just enjoy the profits from the American consumer.
You would likely be wasting your time if you lost life or limb to a defective Chinese product and tried to recover damages.
It is shocking the extent to which the US government protects and coddles the Chinese at US consumer expense where there is so much that "could" be done.
It's almost as if the US government itself is anti-American.

Then again, the US consumer is like a heroine addict addicted to Chinese goods so who's fault is it really?

In this case the Chinese vendor can simply ignore me and there's really nothing I can do.
I suspect your battery will fail soon also.
I hope not but who knows.
I have two other btrpower batteries (lithium but not lifepo4) that also have been excellent with many charges each and over 1000 miles of use without any problems.
I doubt that any of the aftermarket lithium battery manufacturers or sellers could be held accountable for liability - for that you'd probably need to have a proprietary battery from a major manufacturer like Yamaha. A replacement battery and charger for my Yamaha powered bike cost ~$1200 vs $200 or less for my btrpower batteries and chargers.

Unfortunate about your experience, hope that I don't have the same.
 

HansTrio

Member
Region
USA
I hope not but who knows.
I have two other btrpower batteries (lithium but not lifepo4) that also have been excellent with many charges each and over 1000 miles of use without any problems.
I doubt that any of the aftermarket lithium battery manufacturers or sellers could be held accountable for liability - for that you'd probably need to have a proprietary battery from a major manufacturer like Yamaha. A replacement battery and charger for my Yamaha powered bike cost ~$1200 vs $200 or less for my btrpower batteries and chargers.

Unfortunate about your experience, hope that I don't have the same.

I'm surprised that you haven't had a problem.
The odds of me getting that one in a 1000 or whatever seem very slim.

Yeah, hoping, but doubtful.
If by some chance they make it right for me I'll come back and post about it.
So far nothing.
 

tomjasz

Well-Known Member
I don't use it much because it is heavy at 10# but it has been flawless
I’m not meaning to be argumentative, however “Don’t use it much” followed by “flawless” isn’t exactly reassuring. Next check Amazon policies! Their Chinese sellers get away with no returns. I’m afraid you have a false sense of security.
Unfortunate about your experience, hope that I don't have the same.
Good luck. I mean that! I’m wishing you the best. Hopefully you have a solid fire plan and policy.
I doubt that any of the aftermarket lithium battery manufacturers or sellers could be held accountable for liability -
The shop I worked CS with sold a UPP battery and the buyer resold it on eBay. The USA shop insurance paid the $50,000 claim for the eBay buyers garage fire.

Liability was at the heart of the shops policy of drop shipping even quality batteries. But as I just wrote, that didn’t help.
 

tomjasz

Well-Known Member
How do you return a bad battery that is illegal to ship? The dirty little secret continues.

Seller Return Policy​

When you order from a seller that fulfills and ships its own inventory (also called a third party seller), your return is sent back to the seller instead of Amazon.com. While most sellers offer a returns policy equivalent to Amazon.com's, some seller returns policies may vary. You can view the return policy of the seller before you purchase an item by viewing the Returns and Refunds Policy section of the seller profile page. To view the seller's return policy, once you've ordered, you can select your order in the Returns Center.

Third-party sellers must either provide a return address within the United States, provide a prepaid return label, or offer a full refund without requesting the item be returned. If a seller does not offer these methods to return your items, you may file an A-to-z Guarantee claim to seek help with your return.
 

HansTrio

Member
Region
USA
Tomjasz,
Of all the platforms I deal with, Amazon is the most helpful / customer friendly. Ebay is about the worst. I HATE buying on ebay but sometimes it's necessary.
They have become totally passionate about NOT having any type of customer service. I cannot believe how loyal so many still are to ebay.
They screw sellers and buyers equally. Total tar pit of a platform at this point. I got my first ebay account the year they first started.
It was an entirely different place.
Over time it has devolved into a waste product just like YouTube.

My experience so far with BtrPower has been dismal.
I opened a request on their website according to the terms they set out for warranty and there has been ZERO response from them.
It seems "Warranty" is a lie. They offer no warranty.....or so far it seems.

My knee jerk feeling is to sue ebay and the seller jointly for breach of contract. The item was listed with a one year warranty. ebay has ongoing profits and a relationship with the seller.
I can't touch the seller but I can drag ebays ass into it. ebay does business in all 50 states and charges taxes in all 50 states. So I can sue them locally.
I'm thiking hard about a small claims suit for the losses and expenses.

There is a guy on one of the bike forums that has accumulated a number of ebike batteries and through disputes has not paid for them.
As much as I hate to say it, the way Chinese vendors are treating us, he may have the right idea.

EMGX, Tom is correct. You cannot say the batteries are good and also that you have hardly used them. that is contradictory.
Mine failed after about 20 uses out of a clear blue. it started dying faster. Last check the 20Ah battery has only 8Ah and that's after just 20 uses.

We are being screwed by the Chinese and Amazon but especially ebay are protecting them from the American consumer.
At least with Amazon it's easy to talk to a real person and get help.
Amazon almost ALWAYS tries to make things right for the customer. EVERY time I've had a problem Amazon was there to fix things.
Ebay is a nightmare and lost cause. They go out of their way to avoid you totally. I hope ebay dies off. They deserve it.
 

EMGX

Well-Known Member
I'm not sure how many charge cycles I have on my LiFePO4 battery, probably ~10. It may never get to 20 charges in my use because it is heavy so I use lithium ion batteries instead (Btrpower and a couple other "brands"). My fault for buying a battery that I find too heavy to want to use - I bought it because of supposed safer chemistry vs lithium ion. BTW your battery is currently $285 on Amazon and has 14 5 star reviews with no reviews lower than 5 stars. At least one buyer indicated that the battery arrived with shipping damage and was sent another battery. Seller states that the battery is non-returnable but has a 1 year warranty so I'd be pretty confident that Amazon would refund the purchase price if the battery failed within a year - if the seller wouldn't provide a refund or replacement.
I saw that they are also selling the 36v 10ah lithium ion battery for $140. If I had the need I'd buy that again in a heartbeat based on my experience with the one I have. It has been charged multiple times with probably about 1000 miles of use.
Basically you pay your money and take your chances with any of these aftermarket batteries but I wouldn't buy one from Ebay or really any seller other than Amazon. In my experience prices for the same products are usually lower on Amazon than Ebay, with faster shipping and I trust Amazon to stand behind their customers more than other platforms (within reason). I ordered a part from a Chinese seller for my TSDZ2 on Amazon in October, the expected delivery window ended Dec. 22 without delivery and the purchase price was refunded the next day with no hassle.
 

HansTrio

Member
Region
USA
I'm not sure how many charge cycles I have on my LiFePO4 battery, probably ~10. It may never get to 20 charges in my use because it is heavy so I use lithium ion batteries instead (Btrpower and a couple other "brands"). My fault for buying a battery that I find too heavy to want to use - I bought it because of supposed safer chemistry vs lithium ion. BTW your battery is currently $285 on Amazon and has 14 5 star reviews with no reviews lower than 5 stars. At least one buyer indicated that the battery arrived with shipping damage and was sent another battery. Seller states that the battery is non-returnable but has a 1 year warranty so I'd be pretty confident that Amazon would refund the purchase price if the battery failed within a year - if the seller wouldn't provide a refund or replacement.
I saw that they are also selling the 36v 10ah lithium ion battery for $140. If I had the need I'd buy that again in a heartbeat based on my experience with the one I have. It has been charged multiple times with probably about 1000 miles of use.
Basically you pay your money and take your chances with any of these aftermarket batteries but I wouldn't buy one from Ebay or really any seller other than Amazon. In my experience prices for the same products are usually lower on Amazon than Ebay, with faster shipping and I trust Amazon to stand behind their customers more than other platforms (within reason). I ordered a part from a Chinese seller for my TSDZ2 on Amazon in October, the expected delivery window ended Dec. 22 without delivery and the purchase price was refunded the next day with no hassle.

OK.
So what are you going to do with the large battery?
It's is 1 Kw so it makes a pretty good battery backup for home use if you have a 48v Inverter.
I don't really mind the weight because I don't go off road, but it would be a no go for off road because the weight would wreck the battery luggage rack and probably the bike frame from the jolts.
As Is, I'm looking for a thick soft Gel pad to put under it to absorb the small jolts from pavement and sidewalks.

I think you're right about ebay and Amazon.
Amazon offers very good customer service......ebay offers ZERO customer service. I'd almost say ebay is "Anti-Customer". ebay doesn't want to be bothered. Long ago it was different.
The new ownership is simply a greedy callous idiot imo
If I had to do it again I'd buy it on Amazon. My mistake.
 
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EMGX

Well-Known Member
Since you reminded me of this battery I checked the charge which was where I left it~6 months ago when I used it last, 52.5v. without charging it I went for a 22 mile very hilly ride. Back home it measured 50.7v. I'm calling mine a good battery at the moment.
Started and ended up here
IMG_20220112_161137746_HDR.jpg

Down to here.
IMG_20220112_145759213_HDR.jpg

And lots of hills in between.

I had so much fun riding this bike that I'll have to find time to fit it into the rotation.
 
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tomjasz

Well-Known Member
“Why did Amazon ban Chinese sellers?


In a response to The Verge, Amazon has confirmed a South China Morning Post report that the internet giant has banned over 600 Chinese brands (spread across 3,000 seller accounts) over review fraud incidents. These firms intentionally and repeatedly violated review policies banning incentivized reviews, Amazon said.Sep 18, 2021”
 

HansTrio

Member
Region
USA
EMGX, I still don't think you understand.

My battery also worked, for a while. About 20 full charge and riding cycles.
Until one day I noticed it began to charge strangely....jumping from partially charged to fully charged in a matter of minutes.
Keep using it and see what happens. I do wish you well and hopefully you will have a long and trouble free battery life.
But please make it known if it fails soon for the benefit of others would otherwise fall victim to devious ebay sellers.

I also realize that the Chinese have a vast online presence and have vast teams of manipulators posting fake reviews on Amazon etc, and even fake accounts on forums to counter real life complaints about their products.
There was a time when buying and being a consumer in the United States meant you could count on quality and support after the sale. Those days are apparently gone.
The Chinese do not seem have that ethic in too many cases like the one I am currently in. The Chinese government is not making their suppliers abide by any standards of quality service it appears.

So far, the ebay seller iMotorBattery and BtrPower have neither provided warranty nor communicated with me a process for doing so despite my numerous efforts to submit for warranty coverage.
Some have suggested buying another and then initiating a return, sending back the bad battery.
I really do not like doing things in any manner that is not straightforward. However, I can understand that people, when wronged and when funds are tight, need to hold the sellers accountable somehow.
Unless a miracle occurs, all indications are that both have zero intention of providing any warranty.

I am about 1 month outside of the credit card dispute period so I no longer have that option. I believe the seller and manufacturer both know this. Hence no response.

The alternative as some have suggested, is to buy a "good quality" battery from a US vendor......for $800 - $1000.
For me, a $1000 battery just isn't in the cards and I'll remove the ebike kit and go back to a non powered bike before I pay $1000 for a 10Ah eBike battery.

If you purchased a battery from iMotorPower or BtrPower and had a problem, I urge you to speak up since that is the only way people will be made aware.
 
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tomjasz

Well-Known Member
EMGX, I still don't think you understand.

My battery also worked, for a while.
Until one day I noticed it began to charge strangely....jumping from partially charged to fully charged in a matter of minutes.
Keep using it and see what happens. I do wish you well and hopefully you will have a long and trouble free battery life.
But please make it known if it fails soon for the benefit of others would otherwise fall victim to devious ebay sellers.

I also realize that the Chinese have a vast online presence and have vast teams of manipulators posting fake reviews on Amazon etc, and even fake accounts on forums to counter real life complaints about their products.

So far, the ebay seller iMotorBattery and BtrPower have neither provided warranty nor communicated with me a process for doing so.
Some have suggested buying another and then initiating a return, sending back the bad battery.
I really do not like doing things in any manner that is not straightforward. However, I can understand that people, when wronged and when funds are tight, need to hold the sellers accountable somehow.
Unless a miracle occurs, all indications are that both have zero intention of providing any warranty.

I am about 1 month outside of the credit card dispute period so I no longer have that option. I believe the seller and manufacturer both know this. Hence no response.
How disappointing. But kudos for revealing the follies of low ball pricing and subsequent quality. Even though anonymous I find many buyers won’t post their failed experiences. Often out of embarrassment for not using best advice and practices. Thank you!
 

tomjasz

Well-Known Member
I have one more of three batteries floating somewhere in the Pacific Ocean. One from Jenny, shrink wrapped. A custom built to my specifications from my battery arch nemesis UPP. I’ve been extremely critical of them after high failure rates seen with the reseller I formerly worked customer service for. BUT the custom pack I had made in 2015 has been great. I beat the crap out of it. Broke most good practice rules but still got good performance. It outlasted a more expensive Luna. (I have a photo showing both used same build technique and mediocre BMS. In fairness that’s old history.)

I’ll run them through a round of tesing with my Grinspector before I close up my little battery shop and sell the tools and Grinspector. (Offers accepted. All in as new condition) Last hurrah and back to all EM3ev next replacements or adds.
 

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HansTrio

Member
Region
USA
UPDATE

iMotorBattery
Contacted me today

They say they are sending me a replacement battery and provided a tracking number. The tracking number is not yet working.
It is coming from China so may be some time before it arrives.

I'll update this thread as new information becomes available.

in the case that they actually do send me a replacement battery....and in the case that that battery solves the problem......

I will issue a retraction of previous posts.
I can understand a battery being defective. What is not acceptable is lack of customer service and Warranty service.
As long as they provide these according to the terms of the purchase, I will be satisfied. May be a month before the battery arrives.
 
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HansTrio

Member
Region
USA
UPDATE

Replacement battery delivery on the way confirmed - FedEx Delivery (VERY fast shipping)

Ok, so I am beginning to believe I underestimated this seller.

It took a little time for a response, but once they contacted me it moved pretty fast and they have sent me a replacement battery via FedEx and it is scheduled to arrive in a few days.
The seller even paid for the shipping.

Assuming the replacement battery is ok, I have to change my opinion to VERY reliable seller.
What had me concerned was the delay at first in communications.

My apolgies to the seller for being quick to rush to judgement.
 
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HansTrio

Member
Region
USA
Diagnosis of the problem.

After dissecting the battery, it appears most of the cells were at the expected voltage and capacity but.....
Two were not.

However, the two that were not seem to be taking a full charge with the BMS removed so it's possible the BMS is bad or one of the wires going from
those cells to the BMS could have failed or had very high resistance causing the disparity.

Upon testing of some of the individual cells, these appear to be decent quality. Most of them seem to still have their full capacity.
Who says you can't get decent ebike batteries at a good price?