Camping a felony? Tennessee Law

tomjasz

Well-Known Member
I have a plaque on my office wall that is very close to that. It reads:
My office at The Mirage had this one,

FREE LUNCH TOMORROW

But I do believe it’s fixable. All that would be necessary is for those religulous folks to actually follow the precepts they claim to embrace.

1650972657325.jpeg
 

tomjasz

Well-Known Member
DavidRvR blathered,
Sad that one has to be a cynic

What s*it pile! You’re the cynic, I sure am not, you’re spouting a clear lack of understanding of addiction and ways out. Those anecdotal stories are not only suspicious but clearly are narrow minded.
 

Cowlitz

Well-Known Member
From watching Seattle's struggle through the years, I have the feeling that a lot of money is made off of money that is supposed to help homeless folks.

I have heard that Finland has a darn good program but it won't work here. I pointed this out on another forum and got the perfect responses to show that it has no chance here in the US.

Finland houses everyone. Their reasoning is that first, people need a safe place to stay and then you can treat their problems because they cannot concentrate on getting well if they have to worry about where they are going to sleep or keep warm and safe. So they have no barrier housing from the get go. Then help is offered. What I've read says it is pretty successful.

Here, when providing housing is mentioned, we get a "I'm not going to pay somebody else's housing costs. Especially an addict!" response. So, religious organizations must deal with it and generally, there are strings attached to that.

I don't know if it was the influence of all the descendants of Finland immigrants or what, but when I lived in Up Nort Wisconsin next to yooperland, the county had built a brand new jail. Half of it was to be designated for drug treatment. I was told that the meth hadn't arrived there yet, but they would be ready for when it did because dose people will need treatment. I wonder how it worked out?
 

Mr. Coffee

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
A Demented Corner of the North Cascades
On one side you have the reality that providing addiction treatment and mental health services are very expensive. So you'll be spending approximately what it takes to spend a summer in Italy on each homeless person, and it will be about as politically popular giving junkies and mentally ill people free tickets to Italy.

On the liberal side you are going to get a lot of pushback on how you are violating the "rights" of homeless people to live the life they choose and poop on the sidewalks. I think you can make pretty compelling public health and safety arguments that those "rights" aren't absolute and guaranteed. It is fair to point out that one of the reasons we no longer have "vagrancy" laws is that those laws were historically used to get rid of "undesirable" people who had a duskier skin tone than most of us here, and we can pretty confident that the exact thing would happen today.

So any elected official trying to fix this problem isn't going to have any friends and likely make a lot of enemies.

I personally believe our current homeless problem will be "solved" when the public safety and security threat becomes (or is perceived to be) unacceptably large. At this point we have a fairly large population that criminals can move through invisibly. I am not optimistic than any "solution" will be compassionate or even particularly effective, but I am certain it will be extremely ugly. Bluntly I am kind of surprised that some municipalities with serious homeless problems didn't use COVID as a reason to relocate and "quarantine" homeless populations indefinitely.
 

tomjasz

Well-Known Member
Yes, a culture that values Twitter more than mental health. Go figure. If we'd ever calculated the costs we currently incur with a criminal justice system, that trip to Italy might cost no more than a trip to Deadwood SD.
Again, having run group homes for addicted kids I saw clear examples of the potential success. Sadly the pay was so bad and the stress level so high that no one lasts long in those jobs. Several group homes just closed here. No staffing at current pay rates.
 

PatriciaK

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
Pacific Northwest and Piedmont Triad
I think it's a mistake to conflate homelessness and crime - they're not the same thing.

Having grown up being on the edge of homelessness several times, often being hungry because there was literally no food in our house, with a parent who suffered terribly with alcoholism, being considered the white trash in our little Midwestern town, I tend to give the poor and the homeless the benefit of the doubt. I don't presume to know the reality of their lives, or pass judgment on their circumstances. I know, all too well, that people can try their hardest, and still fail, through no fault of their own.
 

DavidRvR

Active Member
Region
USA
DavidRvR blathered,
Sad that one has to be a cynic

What s*it pile! You’re the cynic, I sure am not, you’re spouting a clear lack of understanding of addiction and ways out. Those anecdotal stories are not only suspicious but clearly are narrow minded.
Actually that wasnt directed at you... It was me explaining my views.. Wrong book different cover.

You have no idea what I understand.. Been there done that... I have used Drugs and let it run me for a while... Had a bro inlaw I dealt with for many years that was addicted.. He died of a gut infection and never had a chance to say goodbye... You have no idea.. but you live in you glass house and you sit on your high horse..

I have other examples.. I understand the fix also but None would really understand as you would have to experience what I did to fix it.
 
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ChezCheese:)

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
Kitsap Co, WA
It is pretty easy to become homeless in high rent areas like the west coast cities. An interesting side effect is that adjacent smaller cities also have high rents. For example, Bremerton, which is a ferry ride away from Seattle, has very few reasonably priced studios or one-bedrooms. Most are priced like in Seattle, and there is very little inventory. Prices at the high end do go higher in Seattle/Eastside, but at the low end, it's about the same. But wages are lower in Bremerton. So it is quite a squeeze for people earning on this side of the water.

I think that instead of concentrating businesses in the high rent cities, move them out to smaller, more inland communities. Reduce the demand for housing in the concentrated cities, and put jobs in currently unfashionable towns. Where the jobs are, people will follow. Where the people with steady income go, amenities and restaurants etc will also proliferate.

As for beggars, I never give. One time, twenty-five years ago, there was an able-bodied guy out begging in front of the supermarket near my teahouse. He came in later to turn his collected change into bills. He made more per hour than I could pay my workers, and I paid about 25-30% over minimum wage. I vowed then never to give to anyone.

A friend of mine in Pakistan only gives to old women. Anyone else begging is a fraud, he says, but old women have the least protections and resources.
 

DavidRvR

Active Member
Region
USA
Depends on the type of business... Who wants to drive 30-50 miles to the other side of town and then another 20 miles to get to a store to buy something they supply...

We manufacture and install... Center of town is best for us with easy access to the freeway.. 60 plus employees and its easy for all of them to make it to work... Bus or drive.
 

Cowlitz

Well-Known Member
It is pretty easy to become homeless in high rent areas like the west coast cities. An interesting side effect is that adjacent smaller cities also have high rents. For example, Bremerton, which is a ferry ride away from Seattle, has very few reasonably priced studios or one-bedrooms. Most are priced like in Seattle, and there is very little inventory. Prices at the high end do go higher in Seattle/Eastside, but at the low end, it's about the same. But wages are lower in Bremerton. So it is quite a squeeze for people earning on this side of the water.

I think that instead of concentrating businesses in the high rent cities, move them out to smaller, more inland communities. Reduce the demand for housing in the concentrated cities, and put jobs in currently unfashionable towns. Where the jobs are, people will follow. Where the people with steady income go, amenities and restaurants etc will also proliferate.

As for beggars, I never give. One time, twenty-five years ago, there was an able-bodied guy out begging in front of the supermarket near my teahouse. He came in later to turn his collected change into bills. He made more per hour than I could pay my workers, and I paid about 25-30% over minimum wage. I vowed then never to give to anyone.

A friend of mine in Pakistan only gives to old women. Anyone else begging is a fraud, he says, but old women have the least protections and resources.
I'm not sure that the smaller towns have the resources or want the change to have companies move in. Our population looks like it is growing without that, from all the house construction I see. It hasn't hit here yet, but over in the Methow, they have outgrown the water supply and have a moratorium on well drilling. Water is not an infinite resource.

Housing costs here are lower than most places, but my home has almost doubled in value in the four years I've lived in it. They are low no longer. Somebody has built a large apartment complex for low income folks, but apparently there is an extremely long waiting list for that. Small towns are not problem free and ready for more business.

We'd have sprawl. We already have a start on turning into another Wenatchee. Box stores are located on the outskirts, and the access is limited to those as folks found out on Saturday. A power pole was hit and that closed the main route both ways. We had a traffic backup on a dirt road.
 

PatriciaK

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
Pacific Northwest and Piedmont Triad
Also, people moving from larger cities are going to want the same level of government amenities and services they had become accustomed to. Texas, and other "conservative" states are already learning this lesson, I believe, as people from California move in ...
 

Cowlitz

Well-Known Member
Also, people moving from larger cities are going to want the same level of government amenities and services they had become accustomed to. Texas, and other "conservative" states are already learning this lesson, I believe, as people from California move in ...
Good heavens! You mean there might be some construction of bike lanes and trails like they have on the wet side? Encourage people to move here then. We can suck the river dry, I guess.
 

tomjasz

Well-Known Member
As for beggars, I never give.
We have a dear friend from the USVI where we lived for one school year. She visited us in Las Vegas. We were reluctantly with her in the old downtown and a beggar appoached and said she was hungry. Verna immediately offered to o buy breakfast in the crummy little restaurant we were walking by. The mooch blew us off. A few minutes later another street urchin begged for he price of bus fair Verna said sure, “I’ll wait at the bus stop with you.” The fella walked away. We adopted the same responses. 8 out of ten times we’ve been blown off. But two times the persons ate the breakfast we paid for like they were starving.

i was hungry once. And being a hard working white guy I made it out. But I remember that growling empty belly. So I do as Verna. Pay for a meal, but never hand over cash.

A hand up can change that veteran,or mentally ill street urchins day and I’ll never miss the $10.
 

Roamers

Active Member
Region
USA
Verna immediately offered to o buy breakfast in the crummy little restaurant we were walking by. The mooch blew us off
I was approached years ago in a Walmat parking lot by someone looking for $ so they could "buy lunch at McDonalds". I offered them their choice out of our cooler PB&J or tuna salad along with a pop and chips. He choose to give me the one finger salute instead.
 

Cowlitz

Well-Known Member
Ahhh, but once I drove by a guy with a beater suburban which looked like he lived in it and most likely did. He had a sign out for GAS MONEY. On my way home, he was there putting his sign away and then pulled up to the gas pump next to me and began filling up.
 

Roamers

Active Member
Region
USA
Ahhh, but once I drove by a guy with a beater suburban which looked like he lived in it and most likely did. He had a sign out for GAS MONEY. On my way home, he was there putting his sign away and then pulled up to the gas pump next to me and began filling up.
I had a guy walk up to me with a gallon gas can and asked for $ to get him another 10 miles home. My wife was pumping and I said fill his container. Afterward we hoped he wasn't actually an arsonist.
 

Mr. Coffee

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
A Demented Corner of the North Cascades
True story: many years ago while living in Seattle I found myself on highway 99 north of the city on an appalling rainy night. There was an older lady (appeared to be late 50's or older) and a girl of about 10 alongside the road in front of the entrance into Home Depot, with their hands out asking for money. Being helpful I went through a nearby drive-through and bought a bunch of food (honestly more than they could probably eat). When I handed it to them the older lady scowled at me, the girl grabbed the bag and then the older lady smacked her upside the head and knocked the entire contents of the bag into a puddle in the parking lot. You can't make this stuff up.

In India begging is basically an industrialized and organized business. They blind and maim children to make them better beggars.
 

Cowlitz

Well-Known Member
I had a guy walk up to me with a gallon gas can and asked for $ to get him another 10 miles home. My wife was pumping and I said fill his container. Afterward we hoped he wasn't actually an arsonist.
I filled up a woman's gas can while filling up my truck. She was quite desperate at the time.
 

DavidRvR

Active Member
Region
USA
The problem comes down to who needs help and wants help.. Most Do not.. Cant help anyone that doesnt want to help themselves.

You find out real quick when they are asking for food or work and you offer it and they do not accept.. I have tried to hire guys on the streets that say will work for food... Had a couple accept out of maybe 50 people or so.. Had two guys from Texas who were fresh out of prison.. One was a Texas Ranger who tried to stop a robbery at a store on his off hours... Shot the suspect in the chest 2 times as he tried to attack him... Judge said he should have shot him in the leg as he should have known by his training... They are trained to hit center mass and that is what he did.. 10yrs in prison and lost everything and his wife left.. He was a hard worker and a honest guy.. Not many of those left.