Can we change the culture?

6zfshdb

Well-Known Member
Just another thought about throttles...

It does not seem particularly challenging, to me to come up with a solution to the problems people are trying to solve with throttles without it being a throttle. There are a lot of intelligent and mechanically inclined people on this board and out in the real world who could solve this problem if they wanted to.

I'll give one example that I came up with in about five minutes. If you'd spend more time and effort you'd likely come up with a much better solution.

One nice feature of cadence-only assist bikes is that you can ghost pedal, where with just a very slow motion of the cranks and no torque you can engage the motor and move along nicely for very little effort. So imagine that you had a big red button on your handlebars that, when pressed, would disengage torque sensing (only using cadence sensing) and provide 100 percent motor power for 5 seconds. You'd want a safety cap on that button so it couldn't be accidentally engaged when you are walking the bike or otherwise not riding it. That would not be a throttle but would give you, I think, 99 percent of what a throttle buys you without being a throttle.

As an additional refinement pressing that hypothetical button for 3 seconds would disable torque sensing (only using cadence sensing) until you tap the button again. So you could ghost pedal indefinitely.

I am sure a bunch of people on here are going to post on why that wouldn't work. And they'd probably be right. But I am sure that there is a solution and it would be a more constructive use of everyone's time to get cracking and solve this problem rather than bellyaching about it. From my standpoint this wouldn't be that hard to invent, it wouldn't be that hard to patent, and you might make a nice little bit of money licensing it to e-bike makers.
A stealthy throttle would indeed be possible and not particularly expensive to implement.

During a trip to Cape Cod last fall, I stopped in a LBS who rents e-bikes on the cape. The bikes they rent are class 2 Pedego Interceptors which, according to Massachusetts law, are illegal on the cape trails. The store salesperson told me that enforcement is almost non existent and they have had no trouble at all. He said he has heard of only one incident where a park cop spotted a split grip twist throttle on a bike in a parking lot.

None of their rental bikes have class stickers and if problems begin to occur, they will make changes. They plan to remove the easily identifiable right side split grip twist throttles with thumb throttles mounted on the left handlebar. He showed me the product they plan to use and it indeed is quite stealthy, especially mounted on the left:


47105 47104

While I'm not a fan of breaking the law, particularly when deceit is involved, we each do what we have to do. I ride a class 2 bike and use the throttle only to get started, particularly on hills or road crossings. My torque sensor has a slight delay which means I have to exert considerable pedal force to get going and my aging joints aren't up to the task. Once in motion, the PAS or ghost pedaling in cadence mode works fine and the throttle isn't necessary.

I can understand the anti throttle class 1 crowd fearing that throttles will fuel stricter e-bike laws due to uninformed regulators. Unfortunately, a throttle is a necessity for me and until senior / handicapped exclusions are passed, I'm forced to either give up my beloved sport or ride my class 2 bike in some locations as an "outlaw".
 

Captain Slow

Well-Known Member
I did a group ride on my Creo. I was the only one on an electric bike. No one treated me differently and I was just another rider. Well except they weren't shy about letting me ride on the front because I had the motor, so maybe I was a bit more popular.

My bike is class 1 though. Not sure how they'd feel if I were on a class 3 or a bike that seemed more different than what they were riding. But it was a positive experience. Hopefully that is the start of some change.
 

Marci jo

Well-Known Member
Rans made good recumbents...in Kansas. Lightning is made in Lompoc, CA.

No sore wrists, and no sore butt. But I did ride a tanden Rans once that I got recumbent butt after 12 miles. The metal seat pan caused me pain....either the bike seat needed more padding, or I did.

We bought the Vision tandem as the seats were more comfortable. Vision was made in Oregon.
Not sure if any two-wheeled recumbent makers have any ebikes but there are a fair amount of e-trikes.
It may be in my future. Whatever keeps you cycling!!

 

Oberst

Active Member
I did a group ride on my Creo. I was the only one on an electric bike. No one treated me differently and I was just another rider. Well except they weren't shy about letting me ride on the front because I had the motor, so maybe I was a bit more popular.

My bike is class 1 though. Not sure how they'd feel if I were on a class 3 or a bike that seemed more different than what they were riding. But it was a positive experience. Hopefully that is the start of some change.
I thought the Creo is class 3?
 

Dewey

Well-Known Member
Not sure if any two-wheeled recumbent makers have any ebikes
I know a couple of German brands offer electric assist options: the Hase Pino Steps is a tandem bicycle with a recumbent stoker + upright Captain with a Shimano motor; and HP Velotechnik offer a neodrives Z20 direct drive hub motor option on their recumbent bicycle models. Don't think Rans or Bacchetta offer an electric option but either brand's recumbent bicycle models could be converted. For a semi-recumbent/crank forward bicycle Day6 have Bafang mid-drive motor options. The Bent Rider forum would have more suggestions.
 
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Oberst

Active Member
I have really enjoyed the bike. It's not cheap, but for me it's been worth it.

If you want class 3 speeds, then you might like this
Thanks. Nice bike but I am becoming more of a Specialized fan, having a Vado and a Levo, the Creo would be the trifecta giving me a bike to cover all conditions and the alu version would save enough money for 2 range booster batteries!
 

Captain Slow

Well-Known Member
One thing I'd say isn't great about the Creo is the programming at turbo will only give you 100% of the power you produce. So you need to be a relatively strong rider to get the most out of the motor.

I'm now older and can't produce as much power. I've also had about a 10-12 week layoff due to basketball season, so my power output is down. Having said that even before I could not maintain 240 watts over a longer interval and the only way to get 240 watts out of the motor is to produce 240 watts yourself. The software won't allow you to set it to say 200% of your output.

Even by summer when I'm in better form I'm not likely to be producing 200 watts for more than a couple of minutes max, so I'm never getting 240 watts from the motor unless it's a short burst, say maybe 5 to 10 seconds and that's it.

If my FTP was over 240 watts well then I'm not sure I'd be wanting an electric bike.