Can't get up to 23mph - bummed out

Operator7

Active Member
Ok so I've JUST returned from my second ride... I mean to do a full report, but there is one big problem - I cannot get past 23mph. Here are some stats:

I am 6 feet 200lbs (would like to lose 10 lbs, but I'm pretty athletic)
I put full weight on bike before turning it on (tried this three times).
There is nothing extra on the bike currently, except a water bottle, a trunk mount bag that weighs next to nothing, and my new lock which does weigh about 3.5 lbs.
Path was mostly a flat bike path with very smooth concrete.
I tried both directions, with same result (so wind is not the deciding factor).
Tires were inflated to recommended PSI.
Gear was in highest/fastest setting.

When I ride, the bike gets to 18 mph very fast. No matter what assist mode, if I pedal decently, in top gear or second to top gear, I average around 17 to 20 mph. Cogging is significant, so whenever I stand up from the seat to get a relief, speed goes down VERY quickly (this sucks). When I have space (no one around), and I try to pedal my fastest, I struggle greatly to get to 23 mph. On one stretch of the ride, there was an extended slight downhill, and on this downhill, the bike broke 25mph (with me pedaling hard).

I love the looks of this bike. I got a tremendous deal (pricewise) on this bike. The throttle feature is something that very few other ebikes have (you can throttle at any time). This bike is 10 pounds lighter than the Stromer that I was considering; however, the lack of speed is a serious let down. The cogging issue also adds to that let down.

Two side notes:

1) The seat is hard as hell. I know I can swap out saddles, but I wonder how much I'd enjoy a Body Float. And on this bike, no such suspension post is possible. Also, I wore the expensive bike shorts - the ones that come with underwear padding.

2) The battery seems so so. My trip was approximately 12 miles (not sure how to find the exact distance with the display), and the battery used 3 of the 5 bars. My trip was mostly on the smallest level of assist. It seems to me the range I would get, being economical with the assist, is around 25 miles. I know I am a heavier rider than others, so not sure how much of a factor that is, but I'm disappointed with the range.

At this point, I'm pretty bummed. I could trade this back for a Stromer, but I'd have to spend a considerable amount more money. In addition, I really like the look of this bike, and hate to lose out on the great deal I got. Not sure what to do, but just pretty bummed at the moment. I hate to be negative, but I believe in being honest.

EDIT: I just re-calculated the miles using Google maps, and my trip was actually close to 16 miles. So on the smallest assist level most of the way, I estimate the range I would get to be maybe 30 miles. A little better, but still disappointing, considering the economical usage of the assist.
 
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J.R.

Well-Known Member
Is this your bike with the 10.7 AH battery? (Currie web-site)

Just trying to fully understand your questions.

eFlow E3 Nitro

PRICE : $ xxxx.xx
MODEL : E3 Nitro
TOP SPEED : 20+ mph / 32+ km/h
RANGE : 25 - 35 Miles / 40 - 56 km
FRAME TYPE : Diamond Frame
TECHNOLOGY : PAS/POD (torque sensitive)
SKU : EF-NIT-M-BK
 

Hurley

Active Member
I am a pretty strong rider with the exact same bike you have.
I have the smaller battery (like you) along with the same top speed of 20 mph.
With fairly hard peddling I can maintain 21-22 mph for pretty good stretches.
In peddle assist mode 1 with pretty decent peddling I can get at least 40 miles no problem(mostly flat ground).
The bike is a beast if you help it up long inclines (see my write up climbing Mt. Lemmon). This is where you get the value of lower top speed. More torque!
I am 6' 2" 213 pounds.
"Thread No Longer Exists"
 

PowerMe

Well-Known Member
Your ebike is not a speed pedelec bike, I presume. So, not achieving 23 mph is not that unusual. Going downhill you will exceed that.

Range is usually less than what a manufacturer claims unless you're in shape and/or are lean and can use the lowest levels or even switch off PAS entirely.

As a comparison: My Easy Motion bike is claimed to get 30 to 60 miles on one charge by the manufacturer (36v, 11.6ah battery). I can get 30 to 32 mi on one charge, but that's about it, and that's using the lower of the PAS levels at least 50% of the time. I have hills in my area. Those 60 mile range estimates were probably achieved on perfectly flat roads, with a strong tailwind, and a rider weighing less than 130 lbs. who is in very good cycling shape. In other words: I don't match that profile, nor do the roads I ride, plus I take along about 10 lbs of stuff in addition to the bike, water bottles, and myself.
 

Ravi Kempaiah

Well-Known Member
On a lighter note:

May I say this could be termed as first world problem? :D

@Operator7 wants a woman with the skills of Meryl Streep and the looks of Kim Kardashian (with bulgy battery ;))

I understand your pain :(
 
D

Deleted member 803

Guest
On a lighter note:

May I say this could be termed as first world problem? :D

@Operator7 wants a woman with the skills of Meryl Streep and the looks of Kim Kardashian (with bulgy battery ;))

I understand your pain :(

Quote correction: Rider wants a woman with the skills and looks of Meryl Streep. The term fugly was invented to accurately describe Caitlyn's step daughter.
 

admccrea

Member
I have the same bike as well. I have reached 25-26 pedaling very hard down a hill. A far as range goes, I did a ride that was 30 mile on hilly terrain. I used the lowest level of assist and still had two bars showing on the battery.
 

George S.

Well-Known Member
One thing is certain, the faster you go, the shorter the range will be. I am guessing that this bike was built or designed way back when 17 mph was considered decent for a bike. That was a year ago.

Without proper instrumentation (a ten dollar chip, basically) to record watts and amp hours used, you are making coarse guesses about range. I'm not sure why these meters aren't included on bikes, and it's easy if you build a kit, to include one.

From now on it looks like the focus will be on 28 mph ebikes. That is especially true if the new California law passes. It will cut the range by half (more watts used at high speed) versus 17 mph. You had an expectation you would get something like that speed, but maybe you bought a bike that is not designed for that 'future'. Maybe that is why it was sold at a low price?

If you want that 28 mph bike, there may be better choices, some less costly than the Stromer. You need to sort out how the regulations are unfolding in California. But a high speed bike won't be 'legal' in many states. Many people don't seem to care. Utah, where I live, limits an ebike under any power to 20 mph, and then the bike becomes a motorcycle, apparently.

So, basically, there is a move to make speed bikes, speed pedelecs, a class of ebike, and they go around 30 mph. It's a new part of ebikes, even though it seems to be the only thing people talk about anymore. You shouldn't expect just any bike to run 28mph, but if you ask, you should be able to find many that do. And many more over time.
 

PowerMe

Well-Known Member
Isn't there a happy medium between 20mph and 28mph? Like a top speed of 25mph? I would think such a bike could have the best of both worlds -- a compromise between more speed and keeping a decent range. Of course anything less than a 12ah battery is not going to work, and ideally one should have a 14 or 15ah battery.
 

Operator7

Active Member
Ok, do any of you ever get that feeling where you wake-up one day, and it's like you've slipped into a parallel universe, where things are slightly different, and what you thought you knew, now you don't really know??

I did a LOT of research before buying this bike. Not to say that I knew everything by any stretch, but I definitely did a fair amount of research. Here on this site, the bike is listed as 28 mph speed. Here on the Currie Tech site, the bike is listed with 28 mph speed (http://www.currietech.com). The bike is listed with a 500 Watt motor, and I read numerous places (including here on this forum) that this bike has the same engine and battery as the Stromer, and that this bike is actually made in the same factory (different assembly line).

At any rate, I'm pretty bummed to find this out. I mean all is not lost, as I was basically given this bike as a loaner, because when I went to purchase the ST1, it was on backorder... so I have the option to return this bike for a Stromer purchase - but I would have to ship it back, and pay the shipping. OR I can see if my boss will purchase this bike for the office, as he wants an ebike for the office, however he is in europe until August. But of course, a Stromer purchase would be much more expensive, not to mention I got a great deal because this was a demo bike. :-(

I also really liked the look of this bike, and bought accessories that I really liked with it. I'm so frustrated/depressed right now.
 

Hurley

Active Member
Operator,
Currie did not start making 28 mph bikes until 2014 (all black decals). During the same year they went to a bigger battery. Even with that year (2014) you had a choice between speed and torque.
It is obvious that you got the higher torque version. If the shop lied to you about the battery or the top speed they should have to pay the shipping charges. Did you get the guarantee in writing?
Nitro is a great bike but you have to pick the right version for your needs. You can still find 28 mph versions for under $3000 if you shop around. Otherwise you are looking at over $4000 for a Stromer that does 28 mph.
It is really quite that simple...
 

Operator7

Active Member
See I'm confused... here on this site, Court reviewed the bike with the red lining/trim. It is listed as the 2014 model. It is also listed at 28mph (as well as the 14.5 battery). On the other thread in this forum, there are others who stated they were getting 28mph easily, with the 2013 AND 2014 model. In addition, others stated that this bike has the same motor and battery as the Stromer. All this led me to believe that the bike was 28mph top speed.

As for the shop, they didn't really quote me any specs. They simply listed the bike for sale as a demo model. I was originally attempting to purchase an ST1, but the black ST1 Platinums were on back-order, so the shop was awesome in offering to give me a loaner for a month until they came in. They offered an ST1 loaner, but I figured this was a good opportunity to try a different bike, and to get some more experience. Basically, I ended up falling in love with the eflow, but am just now very disappointed to find out that there is a lot of confusion about the top speed, and that this bike will not achieve it. And if the battery is also the smaller version, well that's a deal breaker. SO bummed out to find this out!
 

George S.

Well-Known Member
It might be the way the pedal assist is set up. You have to do all the work beyond 20 mph, and the motor puts out a fixed amount. I assume that is why they say 28 mph with hard pedaling. Really hard pedaling. No one says how they program their bikes. With kits you can set things up for what you want, with a lot of assist.

I think the new bikes have a much more favorable pedal assist at high speeds.

This is just a guess. It's strange, to me, but it does seem to say that in the specs. Maybe they can tweak the programming.
 

Operator7

Active Member
I was just watching the video where Electric Bike Report is presenting what is apparently the 2014 model, and even this guy uses confusing/deceptive language to garble something about "with high pedaling" you will get up to 28 mph. What the heck does that mean? Why bullshit?? Give us the damn real stat on what speed the bike will assist up to. Don't tell me some camouflage crap about imaginary speeds under certain conditions!!! VERY dishonest. That's some used-car salesman crap. Imagine buying a car, and the manufacturer says that the horsepower is like 200 if you're under certain type of conditions :-/ Don't give me that bs. Tell me what the actual horsepower is. And with an ebike, tell me what speed the bike will stop assisting. If the bike stops assisting at 20mph, then that is what you should say. Otherwise it's false advertising.
 

Operator7

Active Member
George, have you done a thread on the new California laws pending, that you alluded to? I know nothing about that, but am of course interested. I'd ride a 28mph ebike either way though.

Also, what models do you suggest checking out besides Stromer for 28mph? Someone else was telling me that even though the Easy Motion models that only assist up to 20mph, they were still close to the Stromer because they are direct drive and do not have cogging. I can definitely see what that person is saying now, because as soon as I stand up from the seat and cruise for a moment, the bike IMMEDIATELY loses 5 to 10 mph. This is a big downer because you need to stand up from the seat to get a rest, but every time you try to rest, you lose speed, so it's like you have to exert extra energy after you rest.
 

Operator7

Active Member
It might be the way the pedal assist is set up. You have to do all the work beyond 20 mph, and the motor puts out a fixed amount. I assume that is why they say 28 mph with hard pedaling. Really hard pedaling. No one says how they program their bikes. With kits you can set things up for what you want, with a lot of assist.

I think the new bikes have a much more favorable pedal assist at high speeds.

This is just a guess. It's strange, to me, but it does seem to say that in the specs. Maybe they can tweak the programming.

Just now seeing this post... if the bike is setup to stop assisting past 20 mph, then they should make that clear, imho. Ok to explain that someone can get more with pedaling, but make it clear that the bike stops assisting past 20mph.
 

Hurley

Active Member
This is a quote from one of the moderators(Ann M.)...

"@Hunter, the torque sensors on the Eflows are notorious for misalignment which might be the reason your bike isn't performing right. The Eflow I've ridden did 28-30mph with my light pedaling style--I'm not a stomper! Ask your local Ebike shop to do a reset on the sensor--sometimes it just needs a reboot to read the data right. Which reminds me...are you remembering to leave the bike off until after you sit on it and make sure your feet are NOT pressing the pedals when you turn the bike on. This is part of how the torque sensor calibrates to the particular rider. If you have weight on the pedals during the boot up, the system will respond differently (and not the way you want it to)"
 

Operator7

Active Member
Yep, I read that, which is why I thought this was a 28mph bike. Even with the new model, here is what their site lists in the spec:

20 mph / 32 kph motor only, 28 mph / 45kph with hard pedaling

That seems to me that the motor only assists up to 20mph. I am interested in anything that might get assistance up to 28mph, but it doesn't seem that is possible with this bike, short of an unlock code maybe? It's a shame there is so much confusion with a very basic stat like this. When people (like me) are buying bikes, they want to know the basics. One of the most basic stats is how fast the bike goes. We all know this means what speed will the motor provide assistance up to. There are some bikes that provide assistance up to 28mph, and others that only provide assistance up to 20mph. If a company is purposely being deceptive on this, I think that is VERY bad salesmanship, imho. That's NOT the way to build a market.
 

George S.

Well-Known Member
George, have you done a thread on the new California laws pending, that you alluded to? I know nothing about that, but am of course interested. I'd ride a 28mph ebike either way though.

Also, what models do you suggest checking out besides Stromer for 28mph? Someone else was telling me that even though the Easy Motion models that only assist up to 20mph, they were still close to the Stromer because they are direct drive and do not have cogging. I can definitely see what that person is saying now, because as soon as I stand up from the seat and cruise for a moment, the bike IMMEDIATELY loses 5 to 10 mph. This is a big downer because you need to stand up from the seat to get a rest, but every time you try to rest, you lose speed, so it's like you have to exert extra energy after you rest.

Here is one of the threads:

http://electricbikereview.com/community/threads/cal-28-mph-ebike-sailing-along.2119/

It has passed the Assembly and is in the Senate. It has been moving along, but it's not done yet. There is a 28 mph ebike that can't go on bike paths, the separate kind, and everything has to be certified. But it's clearly a 28 mph ebike with no license and registatition.

I think there is a thread that Hurley is quoting, on these bikes. This is a very complicated system, and maybe it is out of whack. Since you have the bike, and there may be a few things to check out, I'd stick with it and try to see if what Anne is saying, light pedaling to 28 mph, is possible. Check the alignment and the firmware.

If they are 'notorious' for mis-alignment, see if you can learn how to fix it, since your dealer is not nearby.