Chainring question

piper109

Active Member
I am looking at possibly using a slightly larger chainring on my Sduro Trekking so I dont use the smallest sprocket (11t) on the rear cluster very much, possibly changing to a double chainring, so as not to lose the granny gears I need to get to my home.
The cranks and chainring are marked FSA which clearly is the manufacturer but so far I have not been able to home in on what I need as it has a 4 bolt pattern and a pitch or bolt circle diameter of about 104mm. I have found rings with a 5 bolt pattern and 110mm bcd. Anyone know where more info can be found? Is this stuff Haibike specific? Thanks
 
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Joe Remi

Active Member
I am looking at possibly using a slightly larger chainring on my Sduro Trekking so I dont use the smallest sprocket (11t) on the rear cluster very much, possibly changing to a double chainring, so as not to lose the granny gears I need to get to my home.
The cranks and chainring are marked FSA which clearly is the manufacturer but so far I have not been able to home in on what I need as it has a 4 bolt pattern and a pitch or bolt circle diameter of about 104mm. I have found rings with a 5 bolt pattern and 110mm bcd. Anyone know where more info can be found? Is this stuff Haibike specific? Thanks

The 104 bcd pattern is common for mtb cranks, but I had a tough time finding one in 40t for use as a single ring without shifting ramps. As you are trying to do, I only wanted a slight increase in top end from my Sduro Trekking's stock 38t. I ended up buying one from e-bikeshop.co.uk, and it was kinda pricey after shipping to USA. You should have more options if you're going to swap to two shiftable rings and a front derailleur..32-42 and 34-44 are common setups in that bcd pattern.

If you want to stay single-ring and go up two teeth like I had planned, gimme a holler in the PMs. For various reasons I decided not to install my new Blackspire ring, so it's for sale at a good bit cheaper than I paid.
 

piper109

Active Member
Hmm I see that you had to use a supplier outside the USA. A good one I'm sure :) UK is still a strong DIY culture thankfully. Not sure where to get Haibike parts in USA and hoping I don't need much and my first step would be to call where I bought my bike and my wife's.
I have noticed that the 2017 model Sduro Trekking 6.0 has 2o gears and a double chainring, 36/48, at least in some markets, not sure if the USA is included. I would imagine it is also FSA. I would like to find out if that set up is available after market as I believe it would work for me as would the 34-44 that you suggest.
 

Joe Remi

Active Member
Calling your LBS is a good idea for converting to two rings. I'm pretty good with bike tools, but I don't see a simple way to add a front derailleur to my bike. The cable would have to thread through the frame, then it meets a mount designed for the chainring guide. Maybe I'm just an old retrogrouch and don't know modern stuff, but I don't think there's a way to fit a derailleur there. I could be wrong!
 

piper109

Active Member
The cable guide for a front derailleur is already in place on my bike (2016 SL) so fitting the same front mechanism used on the 6.0 should be fairly simple I believe though I have not looked at all the details. I think the chainring guide mounting boss would be high enough out of the way and the front derailleur clamps around the seat tube below it. My mounting boss is a good 3 1/2" above the present chain. Running the cable should be fairly simple too as the plastic cable guide blanking plate on the rhs top tube can easily be replaced and the rear derailleur guide on the lower rhs top tube could easily accept a second cable. Fishing a route with a 3ft piece of piano wire should be doable. I think I have done worse in older cars LOL. In all fairness your bike frame might be different from mine however. Getting the requisite parts might be a bit of a challenge too.
 

Joe Remi

Active Member
Ah, I see what you're saying. I have the same bike and was thinking of braze-on derailleurs, but you're right, there's room for a clamp-on mech. You're good to go!
 

piper109

Active Member
In looking further Joe Remi, I looked at the front derailleur ad and I took the chain guide off my bike to look at the mounting boss.

(Link Removed - No Longer Exists)

There are two views of the front changer and clearly the Haibike frame was designed first and foremost for the double chainring and changer. It attaches to the mounting boss with one screw in a slot and an engagement key which enables the changer to be adjusted for different diameters of chainring. This is clearly seen in the Ebay view of the back side.
The frame was designed for the higher number of gears and then the chainguide was substituted for the smaller number of gears and it was designed to fit the same mounting boss. We have the cheapened up version LOL. This encourages me even more to make the "upgrade" :)
 

Joe Remi

Active Member
Yep, I'm definitely a retrogrouch. My nice non-ebike is lugged steel with cantilever brakes, bar-end shifters and a 9-speed cassette. Now I'm learning about hydraulic disks, 10-speed cassettes and something called high-mount front derailleurs!
 

piper109

Active Member
You mentioned Blackspire and as I found out they are Canadian I contacted them. They sent me the following info:

https://www.blackspire.com/product/super-pro-mtb-series-chainrings/

I might order directly from them as I live in the boonies and compatible bike shops are at least 2 hour drive away.

I should be able to get what I want from them. I took off my present 38t chainring. I had a similar problem to you taking it off and I made my own tool to engage in the two rear screw notches. They were held by Loctite or something similar and were a real devil to remove, one in particular. I will remove the Loctite remaining before replacing those screws !!
Before deciding on the double chainring set up, I will calculate my present ratios and figure out if I really need it or not. I need the 38t front, 32t rear to get up our road to our house in "high" but the 11t smallest rear sprocket troubles me a bit and I would like a bigger chainring to avoid using it.
The 2017 Haibike Sduro Trekking bikes, at least the 6.0, has double rings of 36/48t and they may have a good reason for going to that.
The "high-mount front derailleur" I think is called "direct mount" in the Shimano documentation and seems often used by Haibike.
 

JayVee

Well-Known Member
Can you guys really notice a difference between Standard and High on the 250 Watt drive? I'm unable to see even the slightest difference between these 2 modes of assistance on the PW-45. There's also a huge 'gap' between ECO and Standard on the 500 Watt iteration. I think the distribution of assistance levels is much better implemented on the lower wattage drive. If the PW-45 had a 'Tour' mode (between ECO and Standard), it would be absolutely perfect.

But back to chainrings, the 48T on my Sduro Trekking 6.0 is extremely useful for cruising around at 38km/h on more or less flat terrain in the country side. I have a pretty slow pedal cadence (80 RPMs) and a 48T chainring allows me to pedal slower but with more force (which is what I prefer). I've found that I can get a lot out of the battery in this configuration. The 'highest gear' (48-11) is good for a slight downhill when you need to keep pace with the traffic.
 

piper109

Active Member
I have used "standard" and "high" on my bike and I have not yet used "Eco". I tend to use standard on flat roads.
It seems natural to me to select standard at this point, even going downhill. Perhaps I think that going downhill it does not use any power anyway and "standard" means "regular" anyway :). Where I live the hills need both brakes dragging downhill anyway so I should turn the assist off !
As I get more used to riding it I should try the other settings and become more familiar with them. My motor is Yamaha PW-System, 36V, 500 Watt. I do not know if or how a 250 Watt setting can be selected.
I think your 6.0 has a bigger battery than the 2016 "SL" and the US version may have other differences too. I know that UK versions are limited to 15 mph assisted whereas US versions are limited to 20 mph assisted. I know some folks use "dongles" to get higher assisted speeds.
I can say that on one occasion I forgot to select "high" going up a hill (still in standard and one of the middle gears) and it was harder work than I expected so I selected "high" straight after as a result. This was at the bottom of a mile and a half long "moderate" hill and I would have found it tough going without "high" I think although choosing a lower gear would have worked too probably. Going up the short road to my house, anything other than high and very close to lowest possible gear would be out of the question!! The mailboxes are at the bottom of the hill and the house is at the top and although I usually pick up the mail on my way out somewhere I otherwise take the car as do the neighbours. Now that the weather is warming up, I should use the bike to get the mail :)
I am interested to hear you use the 48T in the highest gear going downhills. You must be getting close to 50kph or 30 mph !! Even 38 kph on the flat is pretty darned good :)
 

JayVee

Well-Known Member
I'd say that you can pedal to about 49-50 km/h going downhill with 48-11. It's useful when you're traveling single file and have to keep up with cars, for instance when there's construction work and there's no shoulder. My Trekking Sduro 6.0 came with a 500Wh battery.

I hadn't realized that in the US, the Sduro Trekking 5.0 comes with a 500 Watt drive, whereas in the EU the 25km/h version comes with a 250 Watt drive.

EU:
https://www.haibike.com

US:
https://www.haibike.com

Well, all I can say is good for you guys. :)
 

piper109

Active Member
Interesting to see the differences. My bike is an Sduro Trekking SL from 2016 and although the motor is 500 Watt drive like the 2017 US models, the battery is only 400Wh.
I understand the 500Wh battery will fit but its not a cheap upgrade !!
Your 6.0 I believe is rated at 45 kph whereas the US versions are rated at 20 mph which is about 32 kph. We have the motor for 27-28 mph so it must be limited electronically to meet the 20 mph regulations. I'm guessing the 250 Watt drive for 25 kph could not make it to 20 mph.
If I understand correctly the electric motor assistance speed is governed electronically by rear wheel rpm. Hence I have read about some creative souls moving the rear wheel rpm sensor to sense the crank arm rpm instead and thus fudge the electronics LOL Cheaper than buying a dongle.
I think I will be happy with 20 mph for some time to come though I would like the bigger chainring.
Interesting to see the EU 25 kph bikes, even the 5.0, get the 36/48 chainrings as do the 2017 US versions.

Do you have a chainguard over the 48T chainwheel ? I have been looking at parts I would need to double up my chainring and I have found a German company that will supply the larger ring and it would fit in place of the chainguard for the 38T I presently have. Its not a biggie as I have never had a bike with a chainguard before.
 

JayVee

Well-Known Member
I haven't put on a chain guard. I thought it might take the 'coolth' away from the bike. So I bought some clips for my pants instead. I look like a dork with them, but then again I don't look much better without them. So who cares? :D

My employer has a rather 'liberal' dress code. Most of us wear jeans, except the execs and the salespeople. So I guess I won't be needing the chainguard, but I'm going to have to clean the bike more often than I would have liked to. :)
 

piper109

Active Member
I too have used trouser clips all my life though sometimes I just fold my pant legs and poke them into my socks :)
Thats good info and it means I can turn my single chainring into a double one using the same "Yamaha spider". Thanks.
 

Joe Remi

Active Member
I too have used trouser clips all my life though sometimes I just fold my pant legs and poke them into my socks :)
Thats good info and it means I can turn my single chainring into a double one using the same "Yamaha spider". Thanks.
The chainguard is actually there mostly to prevent the chain from dropping off to the outside while shifting to harder gears in back (the plastic chainkeeper aids in this, too). Adding the second ring and front derailleur accomplishes the same thing, so you're good to go.
 

piper109

Active Member
I did not think of that. I have not had a bike with such a spread of rear ratios before. I was thinking that the chainkeeper came about from rough riding with mountain bikes making the chain flop around but what you say makes good sense :)