Considering a replacement of 2011 ebike - opinions desired

FlatSix911

Well-Known Member
You mentioned an accident that injured your legs. I would think going for higher motor torque would be a good strategy. The Vado 3 develops 75Nm where the Vado 5 is at 90Nm. I ride a Vado 5. It climbs any of our steep local hills. I think tou'll notice the difference.

I test rode a Giant with the Yamaha drive. It felt weaker than the Vado 5 to me though it had a double chain ring which helped. It had an 80nm torque rating. I haven't ridden bikes with the Shimano or Bosch drives but their torque specs are lower as well; https://shopsandiegoflyrides.com/bl...log/84011011-bosch-vs-yamaha-part-1-the-motor and https://electricbikereview.com/forums/threads/shimano-steps-e8000-torque-power-values.29368/

Good hunting!

Good summary of the difference in ride feel between Bosch and Yamaha... thanks for posting the link.

Very similar specifications between both manufacturers. Although the Yamaha system does have a little more torque, in fact we list a continuous torque figure but it will actually peak at a whopping 80Nm! The Yamaha system offers slightly more assistance too and the power comes in a little earlier than the Bosch motor. Although the power curve is smoother on the Bosch system. Yamaha call this instant power ‘0 cadence’, it is there right from the off. Other differences: The Xduro line is also considered a little bit of a step above in terms of builds. So you'll generally find similar models to be equipped/specked out a little better in terms of overall components used.

Our overall feedback: We find that customers coming from a more traditional cyclist background tend to gravitate to the Xduro/bosch system as the system feels smoother and more like what they're used to on a traditional pedal bike. That said, if you're doing some steep climbing or a touch on the heavier side, then you'll find the Yamaha system will not disappoint. For where our shop is located, this system tackles the steep grades around here better than just about any other bike on our floor.
 
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Stefan Mikes

Well-Known Member
A Vado 5.0 is now $6400 (Canadian) and that's just too much. If I have to compromise, then I am going to look at other products. One that's caught my eye is the Giant Explore E+ 2 STA, which is priced locally at $3499. $2900 buys a lot of IPA...and there are some very satisfied Giant riders on these forums.
It is my feeling Randall that Specialized e-bikes are just too expensive. A natural shopping direction with limited budget is moving towards Giant, e-bikes of which offer high quality but far more reasonable price. Take my own experience: I wanted a Specialized e-MTB; those turned out both unavailable and very expensive. I chose an e-MTB from Giant and am more than happy!
 
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RandallS

Well-Known Member
Very little (or no) stock locally of the Explore+2. No stock at the Giant warehouse either (of any size frame).

One LBS has a couple of +4 in medium (in boxes still) and although it's very similar, but I really did want the bigger battery, fenders and lights. Not sure if I really care about the upgraded controller display as a smartphone will likely be in play anyways.

Their "test ride" policy is a bit difficult right now as they remain closed to the public, with only curbside pickup and delivery at present. If I want to test ride the +4, it will be at least 10 days before they can have a bike ready to try.

I really did want to get as close as possible to a stock bike, from a local shop, but that's looking more and more difficult.

Heavy sigh...
 

Stefan Mikes

Well-Known Member
Not sure if I really care about the upgraded controller display as a smartphone will likely be in play anyways.
You do. The RideControl app is very poor, works badly (at least for me), and it certainly doesn't replace the real display. However, with the situation you are describing, don't buy the E+ 4. It is very poorly specified...
 

RandallS

Well-Known Member
Update.
I ordered a Vado 5 two weeks ago, and it was to arrive today. Got a call from the owner of the LBS and he was very apologetic, but Specialized stiffed him (and me) on the order. Likely a poorly maintained stock database at the warehouse.

Anyway, he offered to try to source one for me but I've decided to spend around 50% less and go with Giant, at least for now.

The Vado 5 was $5999 and the Giant E +4 is $2799 (Canadian before taxes).

They've set aside an Explore for me. It's a stepthrough E+4, and although I really wanted the +2, I may accept the compromise of that model. Browneye and others seem to really like theirs and the value proposition is quite good IMHO. Additionally, I think I may be doing more trails and I think the Giant may be be more suitable. With Canadian laws, the value of a speed pedelec like the Vadoo is different from the US.

I suspect I'll be able to negotiate a few extras as compensation, as I could have gotten an E +2 up to a few days ago from another shop 300 kms north of here. Thie local shop I am dealing with is quite well respected and seem to be suitably motivated for the business. I like that it was the owner who reached out and not one of his staff.

Test drive is tomorrow...on a medium. As I'm 5'7", I hope it fits as they have no smalls!
 

Stefan Mikes

Well-Known Member
There seems to be a lot of models named Marathon is there a specific one (and size) you're referring to?

TIA
Marathon E-Plus.

According to the Giant Canada website, they are: Giant Crosscut Gravel 2, 700x45c (622x45), Tubeless Ready W/O Reflex. I'll try to confirm tomorrow.
That's a bit funny because a friend of mine who bought E+ 0 Pro had the same tyres as yours listed but indeed she's got 2" ones! That was a pleasant surprise, hence my question.
 

pmcdonald

Well-Known Member
Congrats on the purchase! Another very contented Explore owner here. I've just passed 1200 trouble free kilometres.

Spend a few hundred getting it to your liking (don't want to chew into too much of your IPA money) and you'll have a very capable and willing bike. The Marathons (or similar), Tannus Armours, fenders, rack, and a new saddle would be on my list, but see how you like it stock.

Enjoy!
 

RandallS

Well-Known Member
According to the Giant Canada website, they are: Giant Crosscut Gravel 2, 700x45c (622x45), Tubeless Ready W/O Reflex. I'll try to confirm tomorrow.
The demo Explore E+4 had the tires as described. More on the test ride later. I'm still processing the experience.

20200703_115340.jpg
 

RandallS

Well-Known Member
Rode a Giant Explore E+4 M as well as a Fastroad E+ EX Pro small today. I liked them both but although I loved the pro motor on the Fastroad, the geometry doesn't work for me at all. Too forward a position - I'd be in agony in no time. Tech said that he didn't think there was going to be a way to make that bike work for the body position I want to get.

The Explore probably still has all the torque that I need as there's a hill right by the bike shop that can be quite taxing to climb. Absolutely no problem - I did it mainly in level three and was flying up that hill! Overall, looks like super value for the money. But, now I fully understand people's attitude towards the fork. I am fairly broad shouldered as I wear a 48 jacket, and as I am currently around 210 lbs (hopefully heading for 195 this summer) , that fork is way too mushy. There's no way I'm getting down to 160, which is where I think that fork would probably work reasonably.

As I was pressed for time, and wanted to ride both, I didn't get the tech to lock out the fork (as I presume it's possible). I'll go back Monday and try it again as I still think I can make that one work. It looks like a superb all-rounder and with a few mods (including a taller stem and different tires), should suit my current requirements. It's still got my name on it at the shop.

However, does anyone know when Giant announces their 2021 lineup? If they are going to bring an Explore to Canada with the Pro motor, I may just wait for it and keep riding my current rig, range anxiety and all. It still puts a smile on my face and is comfortable.

Thanks to everyone who's commented with their thoughts and experiences. This is a great online community!

Randall
 

byunbee

Well-Known Member
Rode a Giant Explore E+4 M as well as a Fastroad E+ EX Pro small today. I liked them both but although I loved the pro motor on the Fastroad, the geometry doesn't work for me at all. Too forward a position - I'd be in agony in no time. Tech said that he didn't think there was going to be a way to make that bike work for the body position I want to get.

The Explore probably still has all the torque that I need as there's a hill right by the bike shop that can be quite taxing to climb. Absolutely no problem - I did it mainly in level three and was flying up that hill! Overall, looks like super value for the money. But, now I fully understand people's attitude towards the fork. I am fairly broad shouldered as I wear a 48 jacket, and as I am currently around 210 lbs (hopefully heading for 195 this summer) , that fork is way too mushy. There's no way I'm getting down to 160, which is where I think that fork would probably work reasonably.

As I was pressed for time, and wanted to ride both, I didn't get the tech to lock out the fork (as I presume it's possible). I'll go back Monday and try it again as I still think I can make that one work. It looks like a superb all-rounder and with a few mods (including a taller stem and different tires), should suit my current requirements. It's still got my name on it at the shop.

However, does anyone know when Giant announces their 2021 lineup? If they are going to bring an Explore to Canada with the Pro motor, I may just wait for it and keep riding my current rig, range anxiety and all. It still puts a smile on my face and is comfortable.

Thanks to everyone who's commented with their thoughts and experiences. This is a great online community!

Randall
In addition to a stem riser, you can get something like the Jones loops bar or Surly Moloko that should make your riding position much more upright and comfortable.
 

pmcdonald

Well-Known Member
2021 range should be announced around your Fall I think. I got in on the mid year sales around March.

My Explore shocks were set up super mushy by the shop (if they looked at them at all). I eventually bought a shock pump and found they were around 50 psi. They're now around 105 and ride much nicer. Well worth testing at the correct pressure to see if it's the shocks or the setup.

My observation/opinion is the Explores don't get the buzz around here because they lack the sex appeal of the Vados and Allants, but out of the big three they're great value, use decent componentry and hold their own in the reliability stakes. It's early days yet but I find mine a very sure-footed and capable commuter.

Ownership-wise the worst you're likely to content with is a crappy app (hopefully soon to be addressed) and reports of water ingress issues with the cockpit electronics, which Giant seem decent at honouring and replacing.

There seems to be very few users reporting motor issues, which is reassuring given I'm aiming for a committed long term relationship with mine.
 
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RandallS

Well-Known Member
I've declined the purchase of the E +4. It's just spec'ed too low in too many regards for me, especially battery and fork. From what I am hearing about the 2021 Giant Explore models I think I'll wait until fall and start looking again.

If what I hear about a the MY21 Explore E +1 is true, (600+ battery and Pro motor) I will spend the extra money.

Thanks again for all of your comments and insights, but my Bionx powered Townie will have to keep me going a while longer. Time to get off the internet and back on the bike!

Stay safe everyone 😷🚲😁
 

pmcdonald

Well-Known Member
I've declined the purchase of the E +4. It's just spec'ed too low in too many regards for me, especially battery and fork. From what I am hearing about the 2021 Giant Explore models I think I'll wait until fall and start looking again.

If what I hear about a the MY21 Explore E +1 is true, (600+ battery and Pro motor) I will spend the extra money.

Thanks again for all of your comments and insights, but my Bionx powered Townie will have to keep me going a while longer. Time to get off the internet and back on the bike!

Stay safe everyone 😷🚲😁
Good on you @RandallS! The impulse to buy immediately is powerful so it takes good judgement and patience to defer a purchase if you're not 100% sold on the options. The 2021 rumours sound good and would make for an ideal ride for years to come.
 

RandallS

Well-Known Member
Ended up changing lanes significantly. Now the proud owner of a Giant E+1 Pro hard tail MTB size = small.

Really had a tough time deciding on small or medium, but with the medium, I would probably have had no room to add a suspension seat post.

I guess that should bring this thread to a close but ideas and questions will continue in the eMTB and Giant sub-forums.

Ride safe everyone!