Creo setting to negate bike weight?

Katecreo13

New Member
Region
United Kingdom
Hi,

I’ve asked this question in a different forum and was told why buy a dog and bark yourself.

Anyway, I’m curious, as the bike is heavier than a road bike I wonder what setting I would make eco to compensate for the bikes weight to essentially create an equivalent riding experience to say an 8kg carbon road bike? I hope that makes sense?

basing any calculations on an 80kg rider covering flat and mild hills? Is that possible to work out? I’m rubbish at understanding watts etc!

thanks in anticipation of responses.
 

Art Deco

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
Selinsgrove
Hi,

I’ve asked this question in a different forum and was told why buy a dog and bark yourself.

Anyway, I’m curious, as the bike is heavier than a road bike I wonder what setting I would make eco to compensate for the bikes weight to essentially create an equivalent riding experience to say an 8kg carbon road bike? I hope that makes sense?

basing any calculations on an 80kg rider covering flat and mild hills? Is that possible to work out? I’m rubbish at understanding watts etc!

thanks in anticipation of responses.
Sounds like an "Endless Sphere" type of answer to a reasonable question. Someone here will probably know.
 

pbd87

New Member
Region
USA
Too complicated to answer simply, there's no 1 answer. Weight matters a lot going up hill, and matters much less when rolling along on flat ground. Standing start is also different. And different hill grades will also change the effect: weight matters more on steeper hills. So no one setting will make it feel the same as a Diverge in all conditions.

To me, on most of my climbs specifically, the default Eco mode is just slightly more than enough to cancel the weight penalty vs eg a Diverge. Once at speed on the flats, turning assist off feels closest to the lighter bike, any assist feels like too much.

You can answer the feel pretty simply though: test ride a diverge, then add weight and see how it feels. But it's not some massive amount of weight, the Creo rides great even with the assist off. But no one setting will make it feel the same as a Diverge in all conditions.
 

Katecreo13

New Member
Region
United Kingdom
Too complicated to answer simply, there's no 1 answer. Weight matters a lot going up hill, and matters much less when rolling along on flat ground. Standing start is also different. And different hill grades will also change the effect: weight matters more on steeper hills. So no one setting will make it feel the same as a Diverge in all conditions.

To me, on most of my climbs specifically, the default Eco mode is just slightly more than enough to cancel the weight penalty vs eg a Diverge. Once at speed on the flats, turning assist off feels closest to the lighter bike, any assist feels like too much.

You can answer the feel pretty simply though: test ride a diverge, then add weight and see how it feels. But it's not some massive amount of weight, the Creo rides great even with the assist off. But no one setting will make it feel the same as a Diverge in all conditions.
Makes sense, thank you.

yes I think on flats it is fine turned off, maybe on with a headwind 😜
 

Stefan Mikes

Well-Known Member
Region
Europe
City
Brwinów (PL)
You can always experiment with motor tuning using Mission Control Kate. That's the great feature of Specialized e-bikes as you can always fine tune the assistance for varying trip conditions.
 

Rincon

Well-Known Member
I wonder what setting I would make eco to compensate for the bikes weight to essentially create an equivalent riding experience to say an 8kg carbon road bike?
None. There is no setting that will make the obese Creo handle or accelerate like a svelte 8 kg road bike. I have an 8 kg carbon fiber road bike. It is an amazing bike. Nothing handles like it. It is a cheetah, a greyhound, a Ferrari on two wheels. It is so much fun. I also have an S-Works Creo. It is also fun. But it is lead footed and clumsy compared to the road bike. There is no amount of power you could give the Creo that would change that. I would never enter a corner on the Creo as fast as I do on my road bike. I love the Creo for what it is, and it is fun. It feels like a road bike yet I can ride up hills at 14 mph (22.5 kph)! It is agile in its own way, lighter than any other bottom bracket motor e-road bike in existence. It just isn’t, and never will be, a thoroughbred of a road bike — which is at the heart of your 8 kg carbon road bike comparison. I know what it’s like to own and rIde both. That’s why I have room in my stable for both.
 
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Katecreo13

New Member
Region
United Kingdom
None. There is no setting that will make the obese Creo handle or accelerate like a svelte 8 kg road bike. I have an 8 kg carbon fiber road bike. It is an amazing bike. Nothing handles like it. it is a cheetah, a greyhound, a Ferrari on two wheels. It is so much fun. I also have an S-Works Creo. It is also fun. But it is lead footed and clumsy compared to the road bike. There is no amount of power you could give the Creo that would change that. I would never enter a corner on the Creo as fast as I do on my road bike. I love the Creo for what it is, and it is fun. It feels like a road bike yet I can ride up hills at 14 mph (22.5 kph)! It is agile in its own way, lighter than any other bottom bracket motor e-road bike in existence. It just isn’t, and never will be, a thoroughbred of a road bike — which is at the heart of your 8 kg carbon road bike comparison. I know what it’s like to own and rIde both. That’s why I have room in my stable for both.
I think, deep down, I know this to be the case and probably should just save up for a decent quality manual road bike for summer riding. Thank you for your response.
 

mschwett

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
Hi,

I’ve asked this question in a different forum and was told why buy a dog and bark yourself.

Anyway, I’m curious, as the bike is heavier than a road bike I wonder what setting I would make eco to compensate for the bikes weight to essentially create an equivalent riding experience to say an 8kg carbon road bike? I hope that makes sense?

basing any calculations on an 80kg rider covering flat and mild hills? Is that possible to work out? I’m rubbish at understanding watts etc!

thanks in anticipation of responses.
hi Kate. Good question! as @Rincon notes there’s no making the extra mass go away - those extra 4kg will definitely make it feel different in handling and quick changes of speed, direction, etc, regardless of what the motor is doing.

however, once a bike is moving, let’s say in a straight line on level ground, mass has really very little impact. my creo and I together weigh 102kg, and at a steady speed of say 30kph on level ground, wind resistance is an order of magnitude more impactful to energy required than the difference between 98kg and 102kg. on flat ground, I actually never use the motor, and I doubt those few KG are slowing me down at all.

for climbing, the weight does matter, and you can easily calculate the energy required to lift just that 4kg of mass. let’s say you’re climbing 100m in 400 seconds. it takes 10 joules to lift 1kg 1m, so 4kg 100m is 4,000 joules. a watt is one joule per second. 4,000 divided by 400 seconds, and our energy required to lift 4kg is 10 watts for 400 seconds. if you’re an average amateur rider you’re probably inputting 100w-150w yourself on a hill, so the assist setting would be something like 6-10 percent. the bike might measure power before various energy losses, so call it 8-12 percent. the bike is capable of 300w, or 30x the amount required to neutralize it’s own weight in the example above. The example also disregards the energy required to go forward, but assuming a relatively steady speed, mass just doesn’t matter much.

apologies to any physicists in the room for any unit errors or gross oversimplification in the above.
 
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mschwett

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
I think, deep down, I know this to be the case and probably should just save up for a decent quality manual road bike for summer riding. Thank you for your response.
I’ve actually never ridden a really light 2x road bike, so my frame of reference was hybrid bikes, city bikes, mountain bikes, etc. To me the creo feels super smooth and nimble, so much so that I asked the shop to put bigger heavier tires on it to give me that familiar feeling of stable inertia.

Of course now I’m really used to it, and have embarked on lightening it up a bit 😂
 

Katecreo13

New Member
Region
United Kingdom
hi Kate. Good question! as @Rincon notes there’s no making the extra mass go away - those extra 4kg will definitely make it feel different in handling and quick changes of speed, direction, etc, regardless of what the motor is doing.

however, once a bike is moving, let’s say in a straight line on level ground, mass has really very little impact. my creo and I together weigh 102kg, and at a steady speed of say 30kph on level ground, wind resistance is an order of magnitude more impactful to energy required than the difference between 98kg and 102kg. on flat ground, I actually never use the motor, and I doubt those few KG are slowing me down at all.

for climbing, the weight does matter, and you can easily calculate the energy required to lift just that 4kg of mass. let’s say you’re climbing 100m in 400 seconds. it takes 10 joules to lift 1kg 1m, so 4kg 100m is 4,000 joules. a watt is one joule per second. 4,000 divided by 400 seconds, and our energy required to lift 4kg is 10 watts for 400 seconds. if you’re an average amateur rider you’re probably inputting 100w-150w yourself on a hill, so the assist setting would be something like 6-10 percent. the bike might measure power before various energy losses, so call it 8-12 percent. the bike is capable of 300w, or 30x the amount required to neutralize it’s own weight in the example above.

apologies to any physicists in the room for any unit errors or gross oversimplification in the above.
I’d be better off losing 4kg and building leg muscle 🤣 thank you.
 

Rincon

Well-Known Member
I’ve asked this question in a different forum and was told why buy a dog and bark yourself.
That‘s one of the funniest things I’ve heard.

I’m also an 80 kg rider. But I live on a mountain at 1,400‘ above the local beaches. Anywhere I go, even down to the ocean, I have to ride some uphill to get there. Riding back home… I don’t even want to talk about it. Lol. I’m also 64. The Creo makes a lot of sense for me. If I have the opportunity to ride flats and rolling hills, then I’m on the road bike. I know that as time passes, I’ll be riding the Creo more and more.

I think you’ll be happy with either bike, but if you’re looking for the incredible handling and agility of a fine road bike, then there’s only one answer. I went for a ride on the Creo yesterday. To get to it, I had to pick up and move the road bike. It was so light! Like a feather. It made me smile just to lift it into the air.
 

Deacon Blues

Well-Known Member
When I test rode a couple of Creos before the pandemic hit (one aluminum and one carbon) I thought both bikes handled similarly to my Specialized Diverge, but not as agile as my 19 pound Giant Defy Advanced Pro 0 road bike.
 

Rincon

Well-Known Member
I thought both bikes handled similarly to my Specialized Diverge
I remember reading a review that called the Creo an e-Diverge. Then someone mistook my Creo for a Diverge. They look identical, but I haven’t looked at the geometry specs.
 
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jodi2

Active Member
The handling will be always different, but comparing average speed on a tour I tried some online calculators for bicycle how many watts you need for what speed/weight/gradient. I would say as a rule of thumb about 5% (10-12watts) should usually equal the Creos weight or higher wind resistance at higher speeds. If it's flat and you ride slowly surely less than 5%.