creo with two wheelsets: gravel mode activated!

mschwett

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
my creo was a comp carbon model, to which i recently swapped in a different rear cassette, driver, wheels, and tires to go with a few other upgrades over time. the roval terra clx wheels are great, very light, and with gp5000 tubeless the bike definitely rides faster and smoother... but no way was it going off roading!

so i took the original DT swiss r470 rims, got a matching cassette to the new one (sram xg-1195), matching rotors, the lockring speed sensor, front lockring, and some reneherse 42mm hurricane ridge knobby tires. most would recommend something more like a pathfinder or gravelking for mixed riding, but since i have a "road" wheelset i figured it was better to see the differences at the extremes. had the LBS mount the tires and seal them - the only hitch was that the valve stems and core supplied by specialized with the bike for tubeless conversion wouldn't seal, so they used something else.

the bike is... well... much slower now. 😅 even a relatively amateur rider like myself can feel it, it's a bit like riding through a headwind, and segment i've done 50 times typically around 26-27 minutes was over 30. i wasn't cranking super hard, so i think the difference is more like 10% than 15%. still, skinny low-resistance tires on carbon rims are clearly faster! the RPM based speed readout is also now off by around 1 to 1.5%, which is understandable given the tire difference. i won't bother having it changed.

i also pulled the speedplay pedals and cleats, riding on basic platforms and MTB shoes. this offers waaaaaaaaaay less "grip" between your foot and the pedal, but put me at ease while riding on bouncy unfamiliar terrain where i feared i might have to stop on a dime and NOT fall over. a reasonable tradeoff, but not something i'd choose for a familiar ride on mostly paved surfaces. being clipped in is much, much more secure, direct, and allows a really nice "round" power stroke as the pedal transitions to and from horizontal.

those two fully expected drawbacks aside - it was a lot of fun! did around 30 miles, maybe half on dirt, gravel, and rocks, with over 3,000 feet of climbing. very slow compared to my usual pace and i used a bit more battery (58 wH, 18% of the internal battery, 11.61% average assist) due to pretty steep grades of 10-14% over long stretches. got some really nice rolling on slightly shallower downhill trails, up to 26mph, which felt plenty fast on gravel :eek: the combo of fat knobby tires, low pressure (35psi), a carbon frame, and the future shock made for a pretty comfy ride up front. my technique leaves much to be desired but for a bike which is also extremely capable on road, i was impressed at how well it dealt with being tossed around on rocky, rutted, bumpy surfaces.

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Rincon

Well-Known Member
Congrats on the new wheels, and the new gravel set! Nicely repurposed. How are the Hurricanes working for you? Supple, grippy, and gnar absorbing?
 

mschwett

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
Congrats on the new wheels, and the new gravel set! Nicely repurposed. How are the Hurricanes working for you? Supple, grippy, and gnar absorbing?
definitely grippy and somewhat gnar absorbing! not sure about supple 😅
 

Rincon

Well-Known Member
Did you get the standard, enhanced, or super light? I’m curious about Rene Herse tires. The supple (smooth riding and well cushioning) lightweight version sounds attractive, but if you’re not feeling it…
 

mschwett

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
Did you get the standard, enhanced, or super light? I’m curious about Rene Herse tires. The supple (smooth riding and well cushioning) lightweight version sounds attractive, but if you’re not feeling it…
i got the endurance version so i wouldn't have to worry about beating them up. no doubt the lightweight ones are more supple. honestly i doubt i could really discern the difference since they're SO different than the tires i'm normally accustomed to. not to mention 515g a tire vs 275g lol.
 

Stefan Mikes

Well-Known Member
Region
Europe
City
Brwinów (PL)
@mschwett: First of all, congratulations! Your mod seems to be very impressive!

Some remarks:
If you use traction-pin pedals such as CrankBrothers Stamp (1 or 7) and shoes such as Adidas FreeRider Pro, you'll discover your shoes will be held on pedals as good as with the clipless/cleat system. Trust me. You actually need to raise your feet off such pedals to disengage the shoe soles from the traction pins! I have ridden my Stamp/FreeRider at any conditions, including mud, puddles, rain, snow, on-road and off-road and my shoes have never skidded on the pedals. Actually, my favourite show in the eyes of my riding buddies is to tremendously increase the cadence as follows: I imagine I can only move my feet forward and backwards. As my feet hold to the pedals, the outcome is the cadence approaching 140. As I am in lower gear at the start, my e-bike just shoots forward, leaving my buddies in the dust... :D

You should actually try the pedals and the shoes: I do gravel cycling often nowadays.

Drive-train: Did you know the gravel bike had to be equipped with the Shimano GRX or it was not a gravel bike? :D (a big joke!)

An anecdote:
A friend of mine (who is a road cyclist) was badly missing a second bike for the cold season and riding gravel/off-road. By sheer luck, he could buy his dream gravel bike: Marin Four Corners, green, size M. The Marin has a steel frame, making it 2 kg heavier than a comparable aluminium gravel bike. "So what?" -- he said -- "I'm a strong person. And Steel is Real!" :)

Congratulations again!
 

Deacon Blues

Well-Known Member
I bought a pair of Shimano PD EH500 pedals for my e-gravel bike. They have clips on one side and are flat on the other. On the road I clip in, but anytime I'm in really heavy traffic or on gravel I switch over to the flat side.
I've used these pedals for years and have been very happen with them, and haven't fallen over while clipped in for a long time. 😆

 

mschwett

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
I bought a pair of Shimano PD EH500 pedals for my e-gravel bike. They have clips on one side and are flat on the other. On the road I clip in, but anytime I'm in really heavy traffic or on gravel I switch over to the flat side.
I've used these pedals for years and have been very happen with them, and haven't fallen over while clipped in for a long time. 😆


unfortunately (or fortunately!?) my road pedals are speedplay nano, which are satisfyingly tiny and light (no pedal strikes nor exposed metal cleats for me!) but not compatible with any other kinds of cleats and pedals. i'll see how much trouble it proves to be to change pedals - hopefully they won't get as "stuck" as the first set of speedplays did when i installed them with insufficient assembly grease................... :sheepish:
 

mschwett

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
@mschwett: First of all, congratulations! Your mod seems to be very impressive!

Some remarks:
If you use traction-pin pedals such as CrankBrothers Stamp (1 or 7) and shoes such as Adidas FreeRider Pro, you'll discover your shoes will be held on pedals as good as with the clipless/cleat system. Trust me. You actually need to raise your feet off such pedals to disengage the shoe soles from the traction pins! I have ridden my Stamp/FreeRider at any conditions, including mud, puddles, rain, snow, on-road and off-road and my shoes have never skidded on the pedals. Actually, my favourite show in the eyes of my riding buddies is to tremendously increase the cadence as follows: I imagine I can only move my feet forward and backwards. As my feet hold to the pedals, the outcome is the cadence approaching 140. As I am in lower gear at the start, my e-bike just shoots forward, leaving my buddies in the dust... :D

You should actually try the pedals and the shoes: I do gravel cycling often nowadays.

Drive-train: Did you know the gravel bike had to be equipped with the Shimano GRX or it was not a gravel bike? :D (a big joke!)

An anecdote:
A friend of mine (who is a road cyclist) was badly missing a second bike for the cold season and riding gravel/off-road. By sheer luck, he could buy his dream gravel bike: Marin Four Corners, green, size M. The Marin has a steel frame, making it 2 kg heavier than a comparable aluminium gravel bike. "So what?" -- he said -- "I'm a strong person. And Steel is Real!" :)

Congratulations again!

the shoes look interesting, i will try them! the platforms i have do have deep traction pins, but many of my MTB bros swear by the crankbrothers pedals, and i love the fact that they come in a small and large size, with minimal thickness. road bikes with relatively low BB need relatively small/thin pedals to avoid pedal strikes on pavement! we are obviously talking about a different level of attachment though, there's no comparison between being clipped in (in which you can literally pull UP with a hundred pounds of force) and being laterally stuck to the pedals as produced by traction pins embedded in rubber. i've become surprisingly accustomed to the fixation provided by the cleat, for exact foot placement, rotation, and pulling force. that said, i do really enjoy the flats again, it's nice to be able to just jump on and stand on the pedals at a stop, no worries about alignment!!

i can honestly say i had no idea what the difference between GRX and 105 and Ultegra and Dura Ace was when i bought the bike....... but so far, no chain drops on rough roads :)
 

Stefan Mikes

Well-Known Member
Region
Europe
City
Brwinów (PL)
we are obviously talking about a different level of attachment though, there's no comparison between being clipped in (in which you can literally pull UP with a hundred pounds of force) and being laterally stuck to the pedals as produced by traction pins embedded in rubber.
You actually don't need cleats for gravel cycling (it is more MTB like type of ride) although you are free to ride cleated. For instance, any type of the bike jump (even unintentional) will find you with your feet still "glued" to Stamps. Or, manoeuvring with your body to counter bike skidding is easy with traction pin pedals. Additional benefit with flat pedals is you often can avoid a crash because detaching your feet from platforms is just faster. Having said that: Many gravel cycling friends of mine ride in cleated shoes.

However, consider MTB clipless pedals, cleats such as SH-56, and MTB cleated shoes. You don't want to die in a crash on SPD-SL pedals :)

GRX... Did I say it was a big joke? :) Gravel cyclists think only GRX drivetrain is kosher. They also would be sick if the sidewalls of their tyres were any different than light brown :D (GRX drive-train is MTB as compared to the road types such as 105 or Dura Ace).
 
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Allan47.7339

Well-Known Member
Did you get the standard, enhanced, or super light? I’m curious about Rene Herse tires. The supple (smooth riding and well cushioning) lightweight version sounds attractive, but if you’re not feeling it…
I use the super lights on my road bike due to wanting the black sidewalls. When I ordered new 650B wheels for my Creo I decided to go with Endurance. The shop said Endurance are much easier to set up and keep aired up. I struggled with setting up the super lights and keeping them aired up.
 

mschwett

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
I use the super lights on my road bike due to wanting the black sidewalls. When I ordered new 650B wheels for my Creo I decided to go with Endurance. The shop said Endurance are much easier to set up and keep aired up. I struggled with setting up the super lights and keeping them aired up.
oh - trust me. i REALLY wanted the black sidewalls…. but since my plan for these was primarily off road, i chickened out.

if i decide these are overkill, i’ll try the barlow pass (38mm, no knobs) in extralight.
 

mschwett

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
yesterday i found myself on a rutted, rocky, sandy 20% downhill grade. had to get off and walk! not sure any amount of tire would have made it feasible for me to ride down, given my limited skill. going uphill more than 12% or so out of the saddle also seems to result in total loss of rear wheel traction, have to work on my balance i suppose!
 

kahn

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
northWET washington
yesterday i found myself on a rutted, rocky, sandy 20% downhill grade. had to get off and walk! not sure any amount of tire would have made it feasible for me to ride down, given my limited skill. going uphill more than 12% or so out of the saddle also seems to result in total loss of rear wheel traction, have to work on my balance i suppose!
Yes, you either have to work on your balance or picking BETTER ROUTES! ;)