CrossCurrent motor options - will I see improvement?

Timpo

Well-Known Member
So I have a CrossCurrent Air with CCS controller.
I do not have a budget to spend $ on GMAC + Phaserunner, I'm thinking about simply replacing the motor.
Although it may not happen soon, I just want to start looking around, because when my motor is done, I want to use that excuse to replace the motor.

The stock CrossCurrent motor is Bafang SWX02 motor
It 's rate at 350W, has 45Nm of torque, reduction ratio of 5:1, 180-350rpm.

and I have been wondering simply switching the motor will improve the performance of bike.

Bafang RM G360
It has 12.8:1 reduction ratio.
I had been used on Surface 604 Shred, which is pretty fast bike at 32mph top speed.
However, the Surface 604 has12MOSFET 12A controller, would I see any improvement just by switching the motor?

Bafang RM G04
Sold by Eunorau (and I'm sure it's been sold elsewhere too)
It caught my attention because it has been advertised to 65Nm of torque. Which is a significant improvement.
But Eunorau seems to be a bit inconsistent with the torque rating..
The interesting thing is, the prices seem to differ quite a bit between CSTand BPM. (I'm guessing it means cassette and freewheel?)

Bafang G310
I get the impression that the G310 isn't really a performance oriented motor.
Grin recommends not to use more than 700W max.
I have feeling this is a very entry level motor? Because Grin has GMAC, I don't think they need higher performance Bafang.
 

AHicks

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
Snow Bird - Summer S.E. Michigan, Winter Gulf Coast North Central Fl.
Why not add something like a MAC 12t to your list to research? Check out the torque available there....

Some motivation for going that route might be to update that motor further down the line using GMAC components - when they are able to sell them seperately. My understanding is they are in pretty short supply at the moment.
 

Timpo

Well-Known Member
Why not add something like a MAC 12t to your list to research? Check out the torque available there....

Some motivation for going that route might be to update that motor further down the line using GMAC components - when they are able to sell them seperately. My understanding is they are in pretty short supply at the moment.
As I mentioned GMAC + Phaserunner would go out of my budget. I also do not like the look of Cycle Analyst. There's no way a display needs to be that big.
I'd personally get a 10T though.

But Bafang motor is much more afforable if I can get a little bit of increased performance by simply replacing the motor.
 

AHicks

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
Snow Bird - Summer S.E. Michigan, Winter Gulf Coast North Central Fl.
Didn't say GMAC. I said MAC. Purchase a MAC with the potential you could update it later, to a GMAC. Way more torque on tap with a 12T than the numbers you are showing.

MAC shouldn't be much more to buy or install than some of the Bafang drives you're considering. Or is it?
 

Timpo

Well-Known Member
Didn't say GMAC. I said MAC. Purchase a MAC with the potential you could update it later, to a GMAC. Way more torque on tap with a 12T than the numbers you are showing.

MAC shouldn't be much more to buy or install than some of the Bafang drives you're considering. Or is it?
Right... the MAC motor doesn't seem to cost significantly more than the Bafang.
I also just realized that I don't need a Phaserunner, the Baserunner would more than enough.
If I wait a little more and save money, I could just go for a MAC and Baserunner.

I still don't really like the Cycle Analyst though. 😣 That's quite possibly the worst looking display on ebike market.
Even Andy Kirby (Ebike YouTuber) said that Cycle Analyst is a "goofy looking" thing.

He later got the EggRider, but I'm not sure if he still had his Phaserunner, I can't find his video because there are quite a few.
 

AHicks

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
Snow Bird - Summer S.E. Michigan, Winter Gulf Coast North Central Fl.
I was thinking you wouldn't even have to buy a controller right away - just the motor. Is your bike set up with an external controller, or internal? If external, why not use it over again?

If you were in need of an inexpensive 35a controller, you could do a lot worse than something like a KT with whatever display they offer that might appeal (there are several, though the LCD3 is pretty popular). Check out the pricing, with or without accessories that come match wired to allow plug and play everywhere but the battery (xt-90) and the motor.

 

Timpo

Well-Known Member
I was thinking you wouldn't even have to buy a controller right away - just the motor. Is your bike set up with an external controller, or internal? If external, why not use it over again?

If you were in need of an inexpensive 35a controller, you could do a lot worse than something like a KT with whatever display they offer that might appeal (there are several, though the LCD3 is pretty popular). Check out the pricing, with or without accessories that come match wired to allow plug and play everywhere but the battery (xt-90) and the motor.

I have an internal controller. I wouldn't want to get an external controller because I want to keep it clean as possible.

My bike is CrossCurrent Air, it came with a 7A continuous 15A max controller.
So I upgraded to the CCS controller, which is 11A continuous and 20A max.

I was not sure if current controller is good enough for MAC, because from my RC car experience, weak controller + strong motor combo is usually not good because it will be slower (than weak controller + weak motor combo) because electricity is not high enough to move the stator (like motor magnet, coil and stuff) in the strong motor.
 

AHicks

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
Snow Bird - Summer S.E. Michigan, Winter Gulf Coast North Central Fl.
With bikes, a little overhead/extra capacity controller won't hurt a thing. It just means tougher to burn out because of more rugged components and better heat dissipation. And speaking of heat dissipation, that's going to be better when it's got good airflow moving over it.

I have a 20 amp max set in my controller parameters, so though it's rated for up to 35, it'll never see that kind of demand. The issue I have is the battery wiring, and likely the BMS, is too small to pass more than 20a safely. It might for a few minutes, but it's going to heat up quickly. It's no issue really, because I rarely need that kind of power


When you say "internal", is the controller built into the motor, or hidden out of normal line of sight?
 

Timpo

Well-Known Member
With bikes, a little overhead/extra capacity controller won't hurt a thing. It just means tougher to burn out because of more rugged components and better heat dissipation. And speaking of heat dissipation, that's going to be better when it's got good airflow moving over it.

I have a 20 amp max set in my controller parameters, so though it's rated for up to 35, it'll never see that kind of demand. The issue I have is the battery wiring, and likely the BMS, is too small to pass more than 20a safely. It might for a few minutes, but it's going to heat up quickly. It's no issue really, because I rarely need that kind of power


When you say "internal", is the controller built into the motor, or hidden out of normal line of sight?
Oh what I meant by "internal" was that the controller is hidden inside the frame.
Like you know how Rad Power tends to put a controller usually around the seat tube area?
I like the Juiced's hidden controller (I know it's not good for ventilation but looks cleaner)

And I was not concerned about extra capacity controller, what I meant was complete opposite.
I was not sure if current controller is strong enough to move MAC motor because I know MAC is made for much higher wattage.
If I were to give you an exaggerated example, a motor in the Tesla probably won't even move with my little Juiced bike's controller.
When the motor is strong, they tend to have more heavy duty structure like stronger magnet, rotor, coil, etc.. which usually requires more electricity just to get the motor moving.

I'm not sure if it's relevant, but Juiced HyperFat (one with MAC) has 35A controller.

My battery is from AliExpress (bought from Eunorau), 48V and powered by Samsung 35E cells.
I don't know the exact spec of BMS, but they said the battery pack is capable of 20A continuous, 35A for 10 min discharge and max 45A for 5 sec.
Although I don't think it's good idea to push the battery too hard, I'd like it be on safe side.
 

AHicks

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
Snow Bird - Summer S.E. Michigan, Winter Gulf Coast North Central Fl.
20a x 50v=1000w

That's plenty for most occasions, but there's plenty of reserve available when/if necessary.
Because the MAC can handle it, does not mean you have to run it there. Mine doesn't see more that 2-300w most times I'm out. A big hill or a short burst of wide open throttle to get across a busy intersection would be 2 examples of when it's nice to have the extra power on tap.....