Crowd Funding Concept...?

EasyRiderDude

New Member
I'm familiar with GoFundme & that sort of thing, But I don't understand how it applies to online ebike purchasing & how it relates to purchasing from an online store/retailer. Can someone explain Crowd Funding and how it relates to online bike purchasing and how it has any direct relationship (If there is any? lol) to buying from an online retailer?
Thanks,
ERD
 

GypsyTreker

Well-Known Member
I'm familiar with GoFundme & that sort of thing, But I don't understand how it applies to online ebike purchasing & how it relates to purchasing from an online store/retailer. Can someone explain Crowd Funding and how it relates to online bike purchasing and how it has any direct relationship (If there is any? lol) to buying from an online retailer?
Thanks,
ERD

Here's my take. Essentially you put $ up front to "fund" someones idea of what might be sellable or more importantly be deliverable at a reduced price at a time they say they can deliver. It is a totally consumer funded/ risk based business model. There are threads on here that you can explore and check on outcomes. Or you can go through Rad, Sondors, Watt, Bolton and simply order an eBike. Of course with the delay in shipments there is some risk involved even with very established marketing outfits. I will say that Watt Wagon has a form of crowd funding that I would be ok with, but that me.
 

EasyRiderDude

New Member
Here's my take. Essentially you put $ up front to "fund" someones idea of what might be sellable or more importantly be deliverable at a reduced price at a time they say they can deliver. It is a totally consumer funded/ risk based business model. There are threads on here that you can explore and check on outcomes. Or you can go through Rad, Sondors, Watt, Bolton and simply order an eBike. Of course with the delay in shipments there is some risk involved even with very established marketing outfits. I will say that Watt Wagon has a form of crowd funding that I would be ok with, but that me.
Thanks for your perspective Gypsy! Very helpful. SO.... the RadRunner Plus being offered as a preorder by Rad (And they term it a "Limited Release") wouldn't be considered a Crowd funded project?
ERD
 

GypsyTreker

Well-Known Member
Thanks for your perspective Gypsy! Very helpful. SO.... the RadRunner Plus being offered as a preorder by Rad (And they term it a "Limited Release") wouldn't be considered a Crowd funded project?
ERD

Not by my definition. Its a pre-order. The product release, based on my understanding only, is not dependant on the amount of preorders. Rad is simply offering a product and giving folks the opportunity to be first in line. My experience with a crowed funded project was a very nebulous finished product. When the call came for me to complete my purchase a simple question on my end as to what exactly were the final specs got me an instant refund of my initial deposit. As it turns out, none of the bikes offered shipped as stated, not by a long shot, ending any interest in the savings offered on crowd funded business models. Grant you I'm a senior and not current with many new business models and marketing concepts but one thing still seems prudent in my book, if its a great idea with a solid business plan, let the principles and their banks provide the risk capital, I will vote on the validity of their idea via purchase of a shippable product.
 

EasyRiderDude

New Member
Not by my definition. Its a pre-order. The product release, based on my understanding only, is not dependant on the amount of preorders. Rad is simply offering a product and giving folks the opportunity to be first in line. My experience with a crowed funded project was a very nebulous finished product. When the call came for me to complete my purchase a simple question on my end as to what exactly were the final specs got me an instant refund of my initial deposit. As it turns out, none of the bikes offered shipped as stated, not by a long shot, ending any interest in the savings offered on crowd funded business models. Grant you I'm a senior and not current with many new business models and marketing concepts but one thing still seems prudent in my book, if its a great idea with a solid business plan, let the principles and their banks provide the risk capital, I will vote on the validity of their idea via purchase of a shippable product.
I see .. well i'm a senior also, which accounts for my unfamiliarity with much of these newer concepts in marketing, funding etc. Plus business & marketing are not exactly my areas of expertise. Thanks for aiding my senior moments with you ideas & experiences! 👍

Ride On...
ERD
 

christob

Well-Known Member
@EasyRiderDude It sounds like perhaps you were mixing "crowdfunding" with the concept of going in on a group-purchase...? Like, if you got 3 friends together to all agree to buy the same bike model, your little group might get a better price than if you bought just 1 bike. But crowdfunding isn't that.

As Gypsy pointed out, it usually is a way for the public to invest in an idea for something a maker/designer is trying to produce or bring to market--a maker who perhaps can't fund the development and rollout by themselves. The "backers" who go in on it, typically very early on in the process, usually get a reward of some kind once (that is, if) the product is ready for release. This could be a locked-in lower price than the item will sell for on the retail market, or a special limited edition version, or perhaps special options to add on which may not be available later... etc. (That is, *if* the product ever reaches conclusion in the end -- Crowdfunding can fall through; there's a risk to the investors as you put your money in only to find out later the product development fails, or it cannot be marketed, or it runs into far bigger unexpected obstacles, etc., and you may simply lose the value of your contribution without any recourse.)
I've joined in some Kickstarter/crowd-funded campaigns in the past (mostly around camera gear/camera bags, by designers with some good experience) that all worked out wonderfully well -- I love the products I got out of that, and typically got those products at a reduced cost by "getting on board early". But I do remember one project I joined (thankfully, only for $25 contributed) that simply evaporated after about a year of diminishing updates and increasing manufacturing problems!
 

Nova Haibike

Well-Known Member
Not all crowdfunding campaigns are for products that are untested or from start-up companies. Some use the platform as their main way of introducing a new model. That is the case with FLX, an established company, which has the Babymaker on Indiegogo.
 

rich c

Well-Known Member
It's standard operating procedure for many on line sellers. And why not after it worked early on. They start with an offering and when they get enough pre orders they place a hard order with the Chinese factory for a container of eBikes. Sondors doesn't present a prototype. They have a strong enough following now, they just present a computer rendering with few details and they sell out on a preorder. It's a swell deal for those little companies, they don't have to finance an order. The public is the bank. They also get the volume needed for cheap shipping and best price on the eBike before they place the factory order. But when it's not done well with a beginner company, your credit card is the only recourse when they don't ship.
 

harryS

Well-Known Member
I avoid any crowd funded stuff. I'm a senior too, and waiting six months is not in the cards, especially when it's 50/50 that a new crowd funded might be a year. You also have to read the fine print. Some of them must return your money if they don't get their nut together. Others allow them to keep it,



.
 

Thomas Jaszewski

Well-Known Member
All direct to consumer eBike sales companies make YOU the warranty repair service. When it good it's good, but problems can sideline a bike for weeks. Do you have the tools and abilities?
 

GypsyTreker

Well-Known Member
All direct to consumer eBike sales companies make YOU the warranty repair service. When it good it's good, but problems can sideline a bike for weeks. Do you have the tools and abilities?

I agree with on-line sales of e-bikes. You are the service dept. I was excited when harrys posted that parts list that works with my wifes Ecotric 20" folder. Im even considering just ordering to have it on hand. It would work on my 26" too, although Im seriously considering going to a 48v 750-1000w. If your ok tinkering, hub motor bikes have their advantages.
 

Thomas Jaszewski

Well-Known Member
I agree with on-line sales of e-bikes. You are the service dept. I was excited when harrys posted that parts list that works with my wifes Ecotric 20" folder. Im even considering just ordering to have it on hand. It would work on my 26" too, although Im seriously considering going to a 48v 750-1000w. If your ok tinkering, hub motor bikes have their advantages.
I have no reason to keep my mid drives from 2014, BUT, they are perfect for busy walking/running/bike paths. However, the latest and most used bikes theses days are a 1000W DD, 25MPH, and a tame MAC 10T 36V 18MPH. Small city. 6miles end to end, 2 miles side to side. Contrary to internet eBike gossip, my front direct drive is a grocery hauler extraordinaire. Pulls a trailer at 25MPH
 

EasyRiderDude

New Member
Thanks for all your feedback on this topic. By the sounds of it the RadRunner Plus doesn't fall into the Crowd Funded category. I believe they are just taking the fairly well proven RadRunner 1, & complementing it with some nice added options and selling it as a pkg deal. A special limited release that adds pretty good value to an already well received product that has very good independent reviews & positive customer testimonials. I think I'll order one!

Ride On...
ERD
 

GypsyTreker

Well-Known Member
Thanks for all your feedback on this topic. By the sounds of it the RadRunner Plus doesn't fall into the Crowd Funded category. I believe they are just taking the fairly well proven RadRunner 1, & complementing it with some nice added options and selling it as a pkg deal. A special limited release that adds pretty good value to an already well received product that has very good independent reviews & positive customer testimonials. I think I'll order one!

Ride On...
ERD

Can't see you being dissapointed. Rad has been in the game a long time and even though you might hear some stuff that's less than complimentary it would be mostly be due to numbers sold. They have a good rep with an overwhelming amount of end users. Congrats on the decision to move forward.
 

john peck

Well-Known Member
Can't see you being dissapointed. Rad has been in the game a long time and even though you might hear some stuff that's less than complimentary it would be mostly be due to numbers sold. They have a good rep with an overwhelming amount of end users. Congrats on the decision to move forward.
I think the rad runner is a good entry level choice for those who don´t have or want to spend a great deal, I came within an inch of buying
one, but what I really wanted was a bicycle...with benefits. I may yet buy one as I grow more feeble at pedaling. No question, the optional
accessories make it a practical choice for urban riding.
 

GypsyTreker

Well-Known Member
I think the rad runner is a good entry level choice for those who don´t have or want to spend a great deal, I came within an inch of buying
one, but what I really wanted was a bicycle...with benefits. I may yet buy one as I grow more feeble at pedaling. No question, the optional
accessories make it a practical choice for urban riding.

The best thing a person can do, besides the research, is to be honest with themselves about how they really intend to use whatever they buy. Out of boredom I have begun to chart out all the connections and "portages" on the Great American Rail Trail. Doing so made me realise I would have to have a much better eBike. If I never get around to doing the trail, I'm fine with what I have.
 

EasyRiderDude

New Member
The best thing a person can do, besides the research, is to be honest with themselves about how they really intend to use whatever they buy. Out of boredom I have begun to chart out all the connections and "portages" on the Great American Rail Trail. Doing so made me realise I would have to have a much better eBike. If I never get around to doing the trail, I'm fine with what I have.
What are you riding now?
ERD
 

john peck

Well-Known Member
The best thing a person can do, besides the research, is to be honest with themselves about how they really intend to use whatever they buy. Out of boredom I have begun to chart out all the connections and "portages" on the Great American Rail Trail. Doing so made me realise I would have to have a much better eBike. If I never get around to doing the trail, I'm fine with what I have.
With batteries from my previous bike & this which are interchangeable, I have 55Ah partly carried in a small single wheel trailer.
That gives me a a range easily of 150 mi, which is much further than I´d care to ride in a day anyway. I modified my rack into
a dbl-decker allowing me to carry 2 batteries on the bike for approx 75 mi. Think I´ll check out the ´Great American Rail Trail´.
 

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GypsyTreker

Well-Known Member
With batteries from my previous bike & this which are interchangeable, I have 55Ah partly carried in a small single wheel trailer.
That gives me a a range easily of 150 mi, which is much further than I´d care to ride in a day anyway. I modified my rack into
a dbl-decker allowing me to carry 2 batteries on the bike for approx 75 mi. Think I´ll check out the ´Great American Rail Trail´.

I have completed my first pass edit of the trails, gaps and "portages" ( where no RTC trail or other exists. It's just a day dreamer project currently. Be happy to share it with you
 

john peck

Well-Known Member
I have completed my first pass edit of the trails, gaps and "portages" ( where no RTC trail or other exists. It's just a day dreamer project currently. Be happy to share it with you
That´s ok, I´ve no shortage of trails I haven´t ridden yet. the Iron Horse & John Wayne trails might yet become part of an RTC
on the west end. They run east from Seattle to Montana with a few breaks. The Historic Columbia River trail was pretty nice before some
punk with fireworks torched a big section. Haven´t bin on it since the fire, but I think most of it is now complete.