Difference in motors

mrkjd

New Member
Region
United Kingdom
Looking at the new '22 Tero I noticed the 4.0 has a 2.1 motor @ 70Nm and the 5.0 has 2.2 motor @ 90Nm. I thought the Specialized "2.x" motors were all new Brose S line which were all rated to 90Nm but 70Nm seems to refer to the Brose T line which Specialized calls "1.x". I'm confused as to exactly which motors the Vado 5/4 therefore actually have.

I'm a heavy rider (90kg) in a hilly region so am inclined towards the higher output but I wonder what the real world difference would be between the 2 outputs and also whether the difference is just software limited. This is my first bike purchase but I hired a Bosch CX Get 4 for a couple of days and really liked that in comparison to a Shimano E8000 I also tried so that is my benchmark. I would just get the 4 as it comes in an equipped I prefer but I guess I could get the 5 and add racks etc later myself. Do I need the 90Nm?
 

Stefan Mikes

Well-Known Member
Region
Europe
City
Brwinów (PL)
I'm a heavy rider (90kg) in a hilly region so am inclined towards the higher output
Your thinking is correct. I weigh same as you and really needed the 90 Nm torque of the older 1.2s (speed) motor of my Vado 5.0/6.0 to do more serious climbs. Additionally, I swapped the 48T chainring for the 38T one and never regretted that.

I can only guess what the new motors are. I think these are re-designed 1.3 (new 2.2), 1.2 (new 2.0), and 1.2e (new 2.0E). The redesign might improve the form factor of the motors, their weight, and durability (including heat release). It is because the known parameters of these new motors resemble what the old motors had to offer.

Note: the 2.1 is Brose S Mag and it has been used on Levo and Kenevo.
 
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Timpo

Well-Known Member
Looking at the new '22 Tero I noticed the 4.0 has a 2.1 motor @ 70Nm and the 5.0 has 2.2 motor @ 90Nm. I thought the Specialized "2.x" motors were all new Brose S line which were all rated to 90Nm but 70Nm seems to refer to the Brose T line which Specialized calls "1.x". I'm confused as to exactly which motors the Vado 5/4 therefore actually have.

I'm a heavy rider (90kg) in a hilly region so am inclined towards the higher output but I wonder what the real world difference would be between the 2 outputs and also whether the difference is just software limited. This is my first bike purchase but I hired a Bosch CX Get 4 for a couple of days and really liked that in comparison to a Shimano E8000 I also tried so that is my benchmark. I would just get the 4 as it comes in an equipped I prefer but I guess I could get the 5 and add racks etc later myself. Do I need the 90Nm?
E8000 is an older motor, it's been replaced by EP8.
You don't NEED 90Nm, but higher torque is certainly nice thing to have.
 

mrkjd

New Member
Region
United Kingdom
Your thinking is correct. I weigh same as you and really needed the 90 Nm torque of the older 1.2s (speed) motor of my Vado 5.0/6.0 to do more serious climbs. Additionally, I swapped the 48T chainring for the 38T one and never regretted that.

I can only guess what the new motors are. I think these are re-designed 1.3 (new 2.2), 1.2 (new 2.0), and 1.2e (new 2.0E). The redesign might improve the form factor of the motors, their weight, and durability (including heat release). It is because the known parameters of these new motors resemble what the old motors had to offer.

Note: the 2.1 is Brose S Mag and it has been used on Levo and Kenevo.
Thanks for the reply. I could actually give up some off-road chops of a Tero and go for a Varo 5 which would also get me the rack/guards etc I need for errands / car journey replacement etc. Recreationally we do forest fire roads and ghillie (deer stalking) tracks in Scotland which occasionally wash out in to short sections of single track so think a Varo would manage 90% of those times. We never hurl downhill or jump etc. When the going gets a bit tough the fenders on a Tero Eq would be a hindrance anyway. The Tero 4 equipped looks great but it seems a bit of Chelsea Tractor which is maybe why Specialized don't offer it on a 5. How do you find the Varo off road

On the motors, your guess seems to make sense. My suspicion was that they have downgraded the torque from 90 to 70 on the "older* Brose S as I read somewhere it has quietly been beefed up by Brose due to some reliability weaknesses and the new Brose version (with improved bearings and belt) is now the 2.2 90Nm version. If true this may be another reason to go for a 5 due to my weight though I suspect a fit 75Kg pushes out a lot more wattage than me as a barely average fitness, overweight, middle-aged beer drinker!
 

theemartymac

Well-Known Member
"but it seems a bit of Chelsea Tractor..."
Had to Google that term, but glad I did. lol

IMG_2882.jpg.4cecea5e3e99afa94ed5383d4d888b5a.jpg
 

Stefan Mikes

Well-Known Member
Region
Europe
City
Brwinów (PL)
Thanks for the reply. I could actually give up some off-road chops of a Tero and go for a Varo 5 which would also get me the rack/guards etc I need for errands / car journey replacement etc. Recreationally we do forest fire roads and ghillie (deer stalking) tracks in Scotland which occasionally wash out in to short sections of single track so think a Varo would manage 90% of those times. We never hurl downhill or jump etc. When the going gets a bit tough the fenders on a Tero Eq would be a hindrance anyway. The Tero 4 equipped looks great but it seems a bit of Chelsea Tractor which is maybe why Specialized don't offer it on a 5. How do you find the Varo off road

On the motors, your guess seems to make sense. My suspicion was that they have downgraded the torque from 90 to 70 on the "older* Brose S as I read somewhere it has quietly been beefed up by Brose due to some reliability weaknesses and the new Brose version (with improved bearings and belt) is now the 2.2 90Nm version. If true this may be another reason to go for a 5 due to my weight though I suspect a fit 75Kg pushes out a lot more wattage than me as a barely average fitness, overweight, middle-aged beer drinker!
I think the new Vado 5.0 would do for recreational rides in mild off-road. Bear in mind, the only suspension I have in my Vado are suspension handlebars and Kinekt 2.1 suspension seat-post, yet I rode that e-bike in several off-road scenarios. The new Vado has great 80-mm suspension fork and suspension seatpost. Additionally, the new Vado comes with 27.5" wheels and wide tyres. You could replace the stock tyres with sensational all-rounders: Schwalbe Johnny Watts or almost as good Smart Sam. (Both tyre models are silent on road and quite aggressive off-road).

As I say, the new Vado 5.0 should be a pretty universal e-bike. The only reason I'm thinking of Tero is I'd like to ride an XC e-bike sometimes (but I miss the storage space and cannot afford maintaining more than 2 e-bikes I already own.
 

retiredNH

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
I have a Bosch equipped Trek, not Brose/Specialized, but I do live in a very hilly area, and am a senior with health conditions that limit my power output. Still, I haven't used the highest assist level in two months on any of my rides. I rarely even go into the lowest gear unless I'm climbing a hill without power assist.

These hub motors, coupled to proper gearing like Specialized does, put out a lot of hill climbing power. Unless your goal is to pass others going up hills, I doubt you'd notice the difference between 70 and 90 much. Maybe one step on your rear cluster.
 

retiredNH

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
Most of my rides include 1600 feet or so of elevation over about 16 miles. No 20% slopes, but plenty of 15%.
 

Stefan Mikes

Well-Known Member
Region
Europe
City
Brwinów (PL)
Grade would typically have sections of 20% and a few hairpins over a couple of km but with total climb along the stretch of, say, 300m over 7/8km.
1632549239070.png

I love that picture ;)

mrkjd: Tero 5.0. 36-42T granny gear (0.85 gear ratio) and 90 Nm motor. (Been there, done that. My Vado has a 90 Nm motor and the current granny gear is 38-46T - that's 0.83 gear ratio).