Disabling PAS on turns

RJB58

New Member
Region
USA
Just got my XP 2.0 this week. Still getting acclimated to it. It is, in my opinion, more complicated to ride than either a bicycle or a throttle controlled motor scooter, due to the need to manage both the shifter and the PAS control. I know some people keep the shifter in a single gear and use the PAS to control pedal effort, and that makes sense. However, whether you do that or not you have to be mindful to stop peddling going into turns or risk going into a turn much faster than you had planned. My only fall on a motor scooter was just that scenario and I can tell you that if I wasn’t wearing an armored jacket and a helmet with face shield I would have been in a world of hurt.

A poster on another fb site recalled a recent incident where an elderly gentleman had this problem and crashed into a ditch (with potentially catastrophic results). Even my 28 year old son who rode it last evening noted that you have to be careful going into turns when in PAS. Where am I going with this? If Lectric is monitoring fb posts, I think it would be great if they could look into modifying their operating system to add a setting that would sense front wheel turn and adjust PAS downward. It sounds like it would be hard to do but programmers and engineers deal with bigger challenges all the time. It would make these little scooters much safer.
 

Gordon71

Well-Known Member
I'm 73 and the one thing I know about making turns is that I can see them coming and slow down before I make them. The sharper the turn the more I slow down prior to making it. Brakes come in handy for that as they cut the power to the motor.
 

AHicks

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
Snow Bird - Summer S.E. Michigan, Winter Gulf Coast North Central Fl.
Just got my XP 2.0 this week. Still getting acclimated to it. It is, in my opinion, more complicated to ride than either a bicycle or a throttle controlled motor scooter, due to the need to manage both the shifter and the PAS control. I know some people keep the shifter in a single gear and use the PAS to control pedal effort, and that makes sense. However, whether you do that or not you have to be mindful to stop peddling going into turns or risk going into a turn much faster than you had planned. My only fall on a motor scooter was just that scenario and I can tell you that if I wasn’t wearing an armored jacket and a helmet with face shield I would have been in a world of hurt.

A poster on another fb site recalled a recent incident where an elderly gentleman had this problem and crashed into a ditch (with potentially catastrophic results). Even my 28 year old son who rode it last evening noted that you have to be careful going into turns when in PAS. Where am I going with this? If Lectric is monitoring fb posts, I think it would be great if they could look into modifying their operating system to add a setting that would sense front wheel turn and adjust PAS downward. It sounds like it would be hard to do but programmers and engineers deal with bigger challenges all the time. It would make these little scooters much safer.
I've said this a hundred times. There's a LOT more to this than first meets the eye. It's not something you're going to get a handle on your first time out. Or after the 10th time out. This takes experience that's going to take some time. At 75 miles things start coming into focus. At 200 miles, now you're getting the hang of things, and your efficiency, miles you get on a charge, will probably become noticeably better...

Bottom line, I think we all pretty much sucked when we first started.....

Thinking eventually, you'll find shutting the PAS down in corners unnecessary.
 

Roamers

Active Member
Region
USA
I know some people keep the shifter in a single gear and use the PAS to control pedal effort, and that makes sense. However, whether you do that or not you have to be mindful to stop peddling going into turns or risk going into a turn much faster than you had planned.
It's easy for me to get confused by some of these concerns since my Gazelle acts just like my analog bike. If I pedal with lower effort, assist reduces and I slow down. Same as analog bike.

Are you saying if you pedal with lower effort, your bike doesn't slow down?
 

AHicks

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
Snow Bird - Summer S.E. Michigan, Winter Gulf Coast North Central Fl.
It's easy for me to get confused by some of these concerns since my Gazelle acts just like my analog bike. If I pedal with lower effort, assist reduces and I slow down. Same as analog bike.

Are you saying if you pedal with lower effort, your bike doesn't slow down?
With just a few exceptions, that would be pretty typical for most hub driven bikes. Their speed is controlled by the level of PAS they are in. Optionally, they can start and stop pedaling to control their speed....
 

Gordon71

Well-Known Member
One thing this thread brings up is that in my opinion EBikes have too much PAS. I think this is mainly true in the USA. I believe Lectric bikes have PAS that does not cut out the motor until the bike reaches 28mph while others cut out at 20mph. My opinion is they should all cut out at 15mph. There are two reasons to even have an Ebike in the first place. The main reason is hills and to a much lessor extent wind. Without those two things there wouldn't be any reason to even have EBikes. If every place I rode was perfectly flat then I would never have bought one as I would have no reason to.
 

AHicks

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
Snow Bird - Summer S.E. Michigan, Winter Gulf Coast North Central Fl.
One thing this thread brings up is that in my opinion EBikes have too much PAS. I think this is mainly true in the USA. I believe Lectric bikes have PAS that does not cut out the motor until the bike reaches 28mph while others cut out at 20mph. My opinion is they should all cut out at 15mph. There are two reasons to even have an Ebike in the first place. The main reason is hills and to a much lessor extent wind. Without those two things there wouldn't be any reason to even have EBikes. If every place I rode was perfectly flat then I would never have bought one as I would have no reason to.
See how the 15mph plan flies when talking to somebody who purchased the e-bike for transportation/commuting.

If it were not for them, I'd agree with you. My bikes, even though some are very highly powered, are rarely under power at speeds over 15mph. -Al
 

Gordon71

Well-Known Member
See how the 15mph plan flies when talking to somebody who purchased the e-bike for transportation/commuting.

If it were not for them, I'd agree with you. My bikes, even though some are very highly powered, are rarely under power at speeds over 15mph. -Al
Maybe, but the commuters have always had motorcycles and motor scooters and both of those are available with electric motors. Even a motor cutout at 28mph won't keep up with cars. Besides that the solution for the commuter who wants to ride a bike is simply to leave for work/school earlier.
 

JES2020

Well-Known Member
Region
Other
It's easy for me to get confused by some of these concerns since my Gazelle acts just like my analog bike. If I pedal with lower effort, assist reduces and I slow down. Same as analog bike.

Are you saying if you pedal with lower effort, your bike doesn't slow down?
The XP 2.0 is a cadence PAS. I believe his issue is with too high power in the lowest PAS setting , not how much effort he pedals with, effort has no effect for cadence PAS.
 

JES2020

Well-Known Member
Region
Other
Just got my XP 2.0 this week. Still getting acclimated to it. It is, in my opinion, more complicated to ride than either a bicycle or a throttle controlled motor scooter, due to the need to manage both the shifter and the PAS control. I know some people keep the shifter in a single gear and use the PAS to control pedal effort, and that makes sense. However, whether you do that or not you have to be mindful to stop peddling going into turns or risk going into a turn much faster than you had planned. My only fall on a motor scooter was just that scenario and I can tell you that if I wasn’t wearing an armored jacket and a helmet with face shield I would have been in a world of hurt.

A poster on another fb site recalled a recent incident where an elderly gentleman had this problem and crashed into a ditch (with potentially catastrophic results). Even my 28 year old son who rode it last evening noted that you have to be careful going into turns when in PAS. Where am I going with this? If Lectric is monitoring fb posts, I think it would be great if they could look into modifying their operating system to add a setting that would sense front wheel turn and adjust PAS downward. It sounds like it would be hard to do but programmers and engineers deal with bigger challenges all the time. It would make these little scooters much safer.
I'm not sure if you have a KT controller, if so you can program it to deliver lower power to the PAS. That is, if the lowest setting PAS on your XP doesn't resolve this cornering issue.
IE does setting the PAS to a level lower help in the cornering?
 

Tom@WashDC

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
Loudoun County, VA.
Does your Lectric have integrated brakes that cut the motor power upon braking?
My DIY build and my Aventons shut the power to the motor at the slightest touch of the lever, even before the brakes begin to squeeze the rotor. This makes it easy going into turns under PAS assist. I can touch the brake levers, and still pedal through a turn whiteout the PAS engaging. Took a few rides to get used to but now I don't notice.
 

harryS

Well-Known Member
Come on, if this were a regular bike, would you go into a turn too fast and fall over? If it were a car would you hit a curve and drift off? You slow down with the brakes. You take your foot off the pedal in a car. You stop pedaling with a bike.

For a start, all new riders should just push the buttons to get back into PAS 0 for low speed maneuvers. That includes coming to a stop at an intersection. You should also click down to 1st or 2nd gear as you do, amd be ready to pedal off. That's the zen of riding a bike to me, hearing the shifters snick into place, and the click of the derailleur when coasting. But none of this is really needed.

Just use the brakes, And when you do, it shuts off the power. Learn to squeeze them lightly enough to activate the brake switch, but not hard enough to stop.
 

Tom@WashDC

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
Loudoun County, VA.
Come on, if this were a regular bike, would you go into a turn too fast and fall over? If it were a car would you hit a curve and drift off? You slow down with the brakes. You take your foot off the pedal in a car. You stop pedaling with a bike.

For a start, all new riders should just push the buttons to get back into PAS 0 for low speed maneuvers. That includes coming to a stop at an intersection. You should also click down to 1st or 2nd gear as you do, amd be ready to pedal off. That's the zen of riding a bike to me, hearing the shifters snick into place, and the click of the derailleur when coasting. But none of this is really needed.

Just use the brakes, And when you do, it shuts off the power. Learn to squeeze them lightly enough to activate the brake switch, but not hard enough to stop.
True DAT!
 

arcom

Active Member
Just use the brakes, And when you do, it shuts off the power. Learn to squeeze them lightly enough to activate the brake switch, but not hard enough to stop.
+1 for the previous True Dat! It should be part of any basic "how to ride your ebike" instruction.
 

AHicks

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
Snow Bird - Summer S.E. Michigan, Winter Gulf Coast North Central Fl.
I'm not sure if you have a KT controller, if so you can program it to deliver lower power to the PAS. That is, if the lowest setting PAS on your XP doesn't resolve this cornering issue.
IE does setting the PAS to a level lower help in the cornering?
Not KT from the factory, but a few have gone to them....
 

DaveMatthews

Well-Known Member
I've never pedaled around tight corners, ebike or regular. Depending on the terrain and how far you lean you're asking for a surprise pedal strike.
 

AHicks

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
Snow Bird - Summer S.E. Michigan, Winter Gulf Coast North Central Fl.
I've never pedaled around tight corners, ebike or regular. Depending on the terrain and how far you lean you're asking for a surprise pedal strike.
Not to mention risking a surprise meeting with a loose surface (sand, gravel, wet leaves, etc.)
 

RJB58

New Member
Region
USA
I'm not sure if you have a KT controller, if so you can program it to deliver lower power to the PAS. That is, if the lowest setting PAS on your XP doesn't resolve this cornering issue.
IE does setting the PAS to a level lower help in the cornering?
It can, along with hitting the brakes and not pedaling. However, at least at this point in my ebike tenure it’s a lot to think about, especially when turning right after climbing a hill using PAS. I’ll figure it out, I’m sure, just like I got used to riding a high powered motor scooter for 15 years. I’m more concerned with others for whom this is a totally new experience, especially as ebikes are heavily marketed to seniors.
 

AHicks

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
Snow Bird - Summer S.E. Michigan, Winter Gulf Coast North Central Fl.
It can, along with hitting the brakes and not pedaling. However, at least at this point in my ebike tenure it’s a lot to think about, especially when turning right after climbing a hill using PAS. I’ll figure it out, I’m sure, just like I got used to riding a high powered motor scooter for 15 years. I’m more concerned with others for whom this is a totally new experience, especially as ebikes are heavily marketed to seniors.
A fair point for sure....
 

JES2020

Well-Known Member
Region
Other
It can, along with hitting the brakes and not pedaling. However, at least at this point in my ebike tenure it’s a lot to think about, especially when turning right after climbing a hill using PAS. I’ll figure it out, I’m sure, just like I got used to riding a high powered motor scooter for 15 years. I’m more concerned with others for whom this is a totally new experience, especially as ebikes are heavily marketed to seniors.
To speed up the comfort level, I would suggest setting the PAS to it's lowest and leave it there,... until you come apon a hill or a need for speed.
Once you get use to the lower assist you can gradually bump it up AND leave it in the highest PAS instead at which point you will have a feel for the different power levels how the tires act or traction tries to brakes free. You will also get a feel for a blended throttle/pedal use to get a smooth power curve.