E-Bike hatred is out there!

JASmith

Member
Region
USA
I have been riding E-bikes for the last six plus years and just had my first experience with a hater. Yesterday i went cycling on the D &L Trail with three friends on regular bikes. We had a shuttle from Jim Thorpe to White Haven reserved and paid for with Pocono Bike Rentals owned by Tom Williams. He pulled up with the van and trailer which already had at least six rental bikes laying all over the trailer in a disarray. Two other girls were also waiting but never made reservations in advance so the driver was already annoyed by the cancelation and the new people that hadn't paid in advance. After getting the trailer in order, he started to load our bikes and when he saw my Turbo Levo went into a rant about those awful e-bikes! First of all he was mad they were not made aware this bike was being shuttled and it was $5 more, not because it was a problem, but because he hates them. He went on and on about how people are running all over the trail out of control going 23 mph crashing into everybody and how the state should not allow them on any trails. I tried to explain to him how it is pedal assist only and it only goes as fast as I pedal. I also made it clear that the majority of people riding electric bikes very well, like myself, are doing so due to medical issues. He said I shouldn't waste my time discussing this with him. He hates them. End of story.
I gave him the extra $5 for his trouble which he took and thanked me. When we got to our destination and were ready to depart, he came to me and returned the money. Sorry, too late.
I am posting this to make other e-bike riders aware of the poor service I received from this business and recommend looking for a different shuttle service if you are interested in doing one of these trips.
Sadly, I let this ruin the rest of the day for me.
Sorry to hear it ruined your day, but don't leave us in suspense, how many people did you crash into at 23mph? /s
 

VoltMan99

Well-Known Member
Region
Asia
City
Tokyo
These days a good way to deal with ripoffs like this rental bike guy is to contact the payment processor and ask for a refund. Him demanding $5 is classic bait and switch. Depending on how you paid for it of course, different cards and different processors have various policies, however all of them have to deal with consumer credit regulations if in the end it was charged to a credit card. At a minimum it will leave a mark on his account with the processor and eventually with enough of these marks (doesn’t take many) they’ll drop him.
 

Mike TowpathTraveler

Well-Known Member
I did that particular run, analog, from Glen Onoko to White Have and back a few years back. Good parking for trail hikers and cyclists at Glen Onoko. Public parking in Jim Thorpe for those inclined to pedal a little longer towards the north. For anyone in the Mid Atlantic, or northeast, the D&L from Bristol, PA to the Gorge is a must-do.

I understand you had 2 analog biker friends with you, but the options are there with the motor and battery to bypass these rental businesses altogether. The motor would have a way of taking out that grade heading towards White Haven; especially as it stiffens outside of Rockport. Beautiful, spectacular scenery but keep an eye for the rattlers.

Can't imagine why anyone would not be gracious and accomodating of any customer. I want to believe with that whacked out governor there shutting everything down, that tourism business in Jim Thorpe, especially his kind of business, was shut down for about a year. Anyone in that region, please correct me if I'm wrong. I know the goofy gov in NJ had our local D&R trail and all state forests shut down. This fella should have been doing cartwheels that anyone was returning to his business.

Try not to take it too personal. But do try to use the local parking if you ever want to ride that area again. That's more effective than any negative online review could ever be....
 

kathik

Active Member
I did that particular run, analog, from Glen Onoko to White Have and back a few years back. Good parking for trail hikers and cyclists at Glen Onoko. Public parking in Jim Thorpe for those inclined to pedal a little longer towards the north. For anyone in the Mid Atlantic, or northeast, the D&L from Bristol, PA to the Gorge is a must-do.

I understand you had 2 analog biker friends with you, but the options are there with the motor and battery to bypass these rental businesses altogether. The motor would have a way of taking out that grade heading towards White Haven; especially as it stiffens outside of Rockport. Beautiful, spectacular scenery but keep an eye for the rattlers.

Can't imagine why anyone would not be gracious and accomodating of any customer. I want to believe with that whacked out governor there shutting everything down, that tourism business in Jim Thorpe, especially his kind of business, was shut down for about a year. Anyone in that region, please correct me if I'm wrong. I know the goofy gov in NJ had our local D&R trail and all state forests shut down. This fella should have been doing cartwheels that anyone was returning to his business.

Try not to take it too personal. But do try to use the local parking if you ever want to ride that area again. That's more effective than any negative online review could ever be....
If I would have been going alone I would have never used the shuttle service. The trail and scenery were really nice for the first 15 miles. I usually park at Slatedale and ride to Jim Thorpe and back which is about 36 miles r/t. This was my first ride north of Jim Thorpe.
 

J.R.

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
I did that particular run, analog, from Glen Onoko to White Have and back a few years back. Good parking for trail hikers and cyclists at Glen Onoko. Public parking in Jim Thorpe for those inclined to pedal a little longer towards the north. For anyone in the Mid Atlantic, or northeast, the D&L from Bristol, PA to the Gorge is a must-do.

I understand you had 2 analog biker friends with you, but the options are there with the motor and battery to bypass these rental businesses altogether. The motor would have a way of taking out that grade heading towards White Haven; especially as it stiffens outside of Rockport. Beautiful, spectacular scenery but keep an eye for the rattlers.

Can't imagine why anyone would not be gracious and accomodating of any customer. I want to believe with that whacked out governor there shutting everything down, that tourism business in Jim Thorpe, especially his kind of business, was shut down for about a year. Anyone in that region, please correct me if I'm wrong. I know the goofy gov in NJ had our local D&R trail and all state forests shut down. This fella should have been doing cartwheels that anyone was returning to his business.

Try not to take it too personal. But do try to use the local parking if you ever want to ride that area again. That's more effective than any negative online review could ever be....
State parks, forests and trails were only closed for a short time in spring '20. County parks and trails were only closed for a couple weeks, if at all, at the beginning of the pandemic.
 

kathik

Active Member
These days a good way to deal with ripoffs like this rental bike guy is to contact the payment processor and ask for a refund. Him demanding $5 is classic bait and switch. Depending on how you paid for it of course, different cards and different processors have various policies, however all of them have to deal with consumer credit regulations if in the end it was charged to a credit card. At a minimum it will leave a mark on his account with the processor and eventually with enough of these marks (doesn’t take many) they’ll drop him.
The shuttle was only $20. I was looking at the reviews of this business on Trip Advisor last night and actually got laughing.
There are 50 negative reviews specifically directed at the owner. Many commenting on how rude and obnoxious he is.
I have decided to not even bother reviewing them. If he keeps treating people like this he will bury himself. He doesn't need my help.
 

6zfshdb

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
Northeast Pennsylvania
I have been riding E-bikes for the last six plus years and just had my first experience with a hater. Yesterday i went cycling on the D &L Trail with three friends on regular bikes. We had a shuttle from Jim Thorpe to White Haven reserved and paid for with Pocono Bike Rentals owned by Tom Williams. He pulled up with the van and trailer which already had at least six rental bikes laying all over the trailer in a disarray. Two other girls were also waiting but never made reservations in advance so the driver was already annoyed by the cancelation and the new people that hadn't paid in advance. After getting the trailer in order, he started to load our bikes and when he saw my Turbo Levo went into a rant about those awful e-bikes! First of all he was mad they were not made aware this bike was being shuttled and it was $5 more, not because it was a problem, but because he hates them. He went on and on about how people are running all over the trail out of control going 23 mph crashing into everybody and how the state should not allow them on any trails. I tried to explain to him how it is pedal assist only and it only goes as fast as I pedal. I also made it clear that the majority of people riding electric bikes very well, like myself, are doing so due to medical issues. He said I shouldn't waste my time discussing this with him. He hates them. End of story.
I gave him the extra $5 for his trouble which he took and thanked me. When we got to our destination and were ready to depart, he came to me and returned the money. Sorry, too late.
I am posting this to make other e-bike riders aware of the poor service I received from this business and recommend looking for a different shuttle service if you are interested in doing one of these trips.
Sadly, I let this ruin the rest of the day for me.
My brother and I have been riding that section of the D&L (also known as the Lehigh Gorge Trail) for almost 20 years. We stopped doing business with Pocono Bike Rentals after our first negative experience when using our conventional bikes. I won't go into detail but it involved bike damage from (IMO) intentional mishandling. Basically, he was angry because we had our own bikes and didn't rent from him. After that incident, we started taking two cars. We would leave one in Jim Thorpe, and transport the bikes ourselves.

There is a 600 foot drop in elevation between White Haven and Jim Thorpe. Everyone riding a conventional bike wants to ride one way down hill. This is what keeps Pocono Bike Rental in business. This elevation change isn't noticed on an e-bike. I think Mr. Williams is afraid e-bikes will cut into his revenue.

@kathik, I ride there several times a season. I start at White haven, ride down to Jim Thorpe and back. It's 48 miles total and can be done on a single battery charge. If that's too far, start at Rockport, 9 miles south of White Haven. With your e-bike, you no longer need Pocono Bike Rental.

I realize this is a problem if you are riding with others on conventional bikes however. All the more reason to get your friends on e-bikes!
 

tomjasz

Well-Known Member
Yes, I was talking to you.
Please don't feed the troll.
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ElevenAD

Well-Known Member
from the stuff i see on Youtube these days i would not be surprised if this guys trail is really being ruined by speeding idiots, i just dont think those speedsters are riding around on Levos. Maybe the hater needs to educate himself when it comes to different types of E-Bikes then he would be able to better direct his hate!
 

6zfshdb

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
Northeast Pennsylvania
from the stuff i see on Youtube these days i would not be surprised if this guys trail is really being ruined by speeding idiots, i just dont think those speedsters are riding around on Levos. Maybe the hater needs to educate himself when it comes to different types of E-Bikes then he would be able to better direct his hate!
I don't deny that trail surfaces are being wrecked by e-bikers who ride like idiots. In this case however, Mr Williams at Pocono Bike does not own this particular trail. The D&L is a state park and it is maintained by the PA DCNR. As I mentioned earlier, I've been riding here for over 20 years and the advent of e-biking has had no impact on the trail surface whatsoever. The DCNR actually encourages the use of class 1 e-bikes on many of it's trails including the D&L.

Mr. Williams has built his business around renting & transporting bikes that use this trail. He pays nothing to the DCNR for it's upkeep. If anything, he is responsible for surface damage due to the thousands of bikes he sends down the trail each year.

While Mr. Williams could certainly use some guidance on what e-bikes can and can't do, what he really needs is a good old fashioned "attitude adjustment". ;)
 

ElevenAD

Well-Known Member
I don't deny that trail surfaces are being wrecked by e-bikers who ride like idiots. In this case however, Mr Williams at Pocono Bike does not own this particular trail. The D&L is a state park and it is maintained by the PA DCNR. As I mentioned earlier, I've been riding here for over 20 years and the advent of e-biking has had no impact on the trail surface whatsoever. The DCNR actually encourages the use of class 1 e-bikes on many of it's trails including the D&L.

Mr. Williams has built his business around renting & transporting bikes that use this trail. He pays nothing to the DCNR for it's upkeep. If anything, he is responsible for surface damage due to the thousands of bikes he sends down the trail each year.

While Mr. Williams could certainly use some guidance on what e-bikes can and can't do, what he really needs is a good old fashioned "attitude adjustment". ;)
no argument here!
 

soyabean

Active Member
Region
Canada
Yes he was being a dick, but he did apologize at the end.

It's not like he screwed you over on price gouging for an air conditioner repair in the 5-figures, he delivered his service as advertised and promised.

You have the choice not to use him again. I agree to bad reviews when I get screwed or experienced downright fraud, but there is nothing to gain by bad mouthing some poor sod just trying to make a living, I'm happy he's not taking handouts from the system which you would be paying for.

Don't be a Karen and leave him alone.
 

Elkman

Active Member
I have been riding E-bikes for the last six plus years and just had my first experience with a hater. Yesterday i went cycling on the D &L Trail with three friends on regular bikes. We had a shuttle from Jim Thorpe to White Haven reserved and paid for with Pocono Bike Rentals owned by Tom Williams. He pulled up with the van and trailer which already had at least six rental bikes laying all over the trailer in a disarray. Two other girls were also waiting but never made reservations in advance so the driver was already annoyed by the cancelation and the new people that hadn't paid in advance. After getting the trailer in order, he started to load our bikes and when he saw my Turbo Levo went into a rant about those awful e-bikes! First of all he was mad they were not made aware this bike was being shuttled and it was $5 more, not because it was a problem, but because he hates them. He went on and on about how people are running all over the trail out of control going 23 mph crashing into everybody and how the state should not allow them on any trails. I tried to explain to him how it is pedal assist only and it only goes as fast as I pedal. I also made it clear that the majority of people riding electric bikes very well, like myself, are doing so due to medical issues. He said I shouldn't waste my time discussing this with him. He hates them. End of story.
I gave him the extra $5 for his trouble which he took and thanked me. When we got to our destination and were ready to depart, he came to me and returned the money. Sorry, too late.
I am posting this to make other e-bike riders aware of the poor service I received from this business and recommend looking for a different shuttle service if you are interested in doing one of these trips.
Sadly, I let this ruin the rest of the day for me.

I have been riding E-bikes for the last six plus years and just had my first experience with a hater. Yesterday i went cycling on the D &L Trail with three friends on regular bikes. We had a shuttle from Jim Thorpe to White Haven reserved and paid for with Pocono Bike Rentals owned by Tom Williams. He pulled up with the van and trailer which already had at least six rental bikes laying all over the trailer in a disarray. Two other girls were also waiting but never made reservations in advance so the driver was already annoyed by the cancelation and the new people that hadn't paid in advance. After getting the trailer in order, he started to load our bikes and when he saw my Turbo Levo went into a rant about those awful e-bikes! First of all he was mad they were not made aware this bike was being shuttled and it was $5 more, not because it was a problem, but because he hates them. He went on and on about how people are running all over the trail out of control going 23 mph crashing into everybody and how the state should not allow them on any trails. I tried to explain to him how it is pedal assist only and it only goes as fast as I pedal. I also made it clear that the majority of people riding electric bikes very well, like myself, are doing so due to medical issues. He said I shouldn't waste my time discussing this with him. He hates them. End of story.
I gave him the extra $5 for his trouble which he took and thanked me. When we got to our destination and were ready to depart, he came to me and returned the money. Sorry, too late.
I am posting this to make other e-bike riders aware of the poor service I received from this business and recommend looking for a different shuttle service if you are interested in doing one of these trips.
Sadly, I let this ruin the rest of the day for me.
We live in a country of haters that are not happy, and with stagnant incomes and $2.13 minimum wage for food workers and no universal health care and having to go into serious debt to get a degree and a good job, it is easy to understand why this is the case. I have watched this country and its leaders get meaner and more miserly year after year to where it is an embarrassment to be a U.S. citizen.
 

6zfshdb

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
Northeast Pennsylvania
We live in a country of haters that are not happy, and with stagnant incomes and $2.13 minimum wage for food workers and no universal health care and having to go into serious debt to get a degree and a good job, it is easy to understand why this is the case. I have watched this country and its leaders get meaner and more miserly year after year to where it is an embarrassment to be a U.S. citizen.
While I don't deny this may be true to a certain extent, it does not give an individual the right to take this hate out on innocent bystanders.
 

ChezCheese:)

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
Kitsap Co, WA
Actually, that $2.13 minimum wage is only in backward states like Texas, and I believe only for tipped service jobs. (I could be wrong.) Not that I'm saying the minimum wage situation in this country doesn't need improvement, just wanting to get the facts right.
 

JASmith

Member
Region
USA
Actually, that $2.13 minimum wage is only in backward states like Texas, and I believe only for tipped service jobs. (I could be wrong.) Not that I'm saying the minimum wage situation in this country doesn't need improvement, just wanting to get the facts right.
Mmhmm, backwards states where half of California refugees are fleeing to, lol! :D You're right, its for tipped jobs only. Average tip is 15%, so for a couple ordering $20 of food is about $3 a table, about 8 tables an hour, which comes out to $25 an hour or $50K a year in a half decent restaurant. Texas has a much lower cost of living and no state income tax, so that would afford you a 3 bedroom 2 bath house on that income since housing costs are 40% the average in California, like for like. They say that in California you need to earn about 35% higher income to be equal to lifestyle in Texas after factoring in double electricity rates more expensive gasoline prices etc, so that would be a $67K income in California.
 

Cramer Long

Active Member
Region
USA
We live in a country of haters that are not happy, and with stagnant incomes and $2.13 minimum wage for food workers and no universal health care and having to go into serious debt to get a degree and a good job, it is easy to understand why this is the case. I have watched this country and its leaders get meaner and more miserly year after year to where it is an embarrassment to be a U.S. citizen.
Maybe you should move to N. Korea or Iran or Lebanon or China or Russia or Mexico or Canada or Cuba or Venezuela or any where else besides America . People are miserable because they have it to good Go live somewhere else for a few years . Nobody is making $2.13 cents an hour . Universal Health Care ??? Again move to a nation where such a thing exists . Then get sick and see how it goes for you .
America is still the greatest place in the World to live . The only place even close is Israel.
If there's a problem with American's happiness it's all due to laziness . People in their later years have what they have because they worked for it . It wasn't handed to anyone . WORK - There's always been Low wage Tip based jobs . Always . And nobody sick is ever refused health care when sick .
What's happened to America is the last 2 generations think they are entitled to have what someone who worked for it has. Anyone born in America can become wealthy , famous , or whatever they put their mind to .
As for serious debt to get a degree (they never use) Whose fault would that be ? Not everyone needs to go to college .In fact the majority don't need college . Plus we should limit law degrees . We have a nation of sue happy lawyers running our country . Leaders aren't mean they are corrupt . The one leader we've had in the last 30 years that wasn't corrupt. The corrupt leaders did whatever they could to get him out of leadership . Because what he did benefited American's to much. So they corruptly cheated and went so far as to kill million to get home out of office and further make your life miserable . h You want to be happy ? Learn what the truth it . Not your truth . THE TRUTH .
Pay attention to what just happened at the latest UN Summit . These Leaders want a Bias Universal Income . You'll own nothing and be happy . Wake up
 
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ChezCheese:)

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
Kitsap Co, WA
Minimum wage in Washington State was $2.00/hr back when I was selling movie tickets in 1974. Tipped wages were about $1.85. That's why I call it backward. Half a century.

Naturally, for Californians, it's like moving to a third world country, in terms of how far their money goes. With all those Californians moving in with their silicon wages, your housing market will become more and more difficult for local earners, too, and you will enjoy the benefits of yet more economic inequalities.
 

JASmith

Member
Region
USA
Naturally, for Californians, it's like moving to a third world country, in terms of how far their money goes. With all those Californians moving in with their silicon wages, your housing market will become more and more difficult for local earners, too, and you will enjoy the benefits of yet more economic inequalities.
I'd argue that the attraction is that they feel like they are going from a third world country in California where they have open defecation in some areas to cleaner Texan suburbs where for the price of a run down dilapidated trailer mobile home in California they can get a larger property and house of higher build quality and amenities. One of the differences too in Texas is that as the population increases they have this revolutionary means of adapting by, get this, building more housing. In California they create artificial housing bubble prices by making it so difficult to build more homes and apartments, abusing "green" regulations.