E-bikes under fire as fatalities climb in NYC

J.R.

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
Public transportation
Let them eat cake.

Public transportation doesn't solve everything for everyone. I have friends in NYC and I hear first hand how commuters are abused on subways. People shoved onto tracks at stations. Men urinating inside the cars. Homeless sleeping in stations and stairwells and cars. Many women these days won't chance taking the subway. There are fewer cops policing the subways than ever before. Easy enough to find the stories.
 

J.R.

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
That said, NYC city government is notoriously inept and wasteful. The richest city in the world and it still looks like a shithole (scaffolding, garbage, subway stations...)
Lets not give them more money to waste and hurt the ones that can least afford it. We need some new and better alternatives. Or scrap the whole thing and start over. The latter seems to be happening via escape from New York. They lost enough population in 2 years to lose a seat in Congress.
 

VoltMan99

Well-Known Member
Region
Asia
City
Tokyo
I have friends in NYC and I hear first hand how commuters are abused on subways. People shoved onto tracks at stations. Men urinating inside the cars. Homeless sleeping in stations and stairwells and cars. Many women these days won't chance taking the subway. There are fewer cops policing the subways than ever before. Easy enough to find the stories.
Sounds like the product of reiterative progressive policies.
 

J.R.

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
Sounds like the product of reiterative progressive policies.
In my opinion it's the product of entrenched politicians and beurocrats that are doing the things that make them feel good and virtuous, things they think should work if we give it more time and money. When it fails, they feel we just need to give it more time and money. I've worked in big cities, I lived in a big city for 9 years. Not my natural habitat. Crime and politics drove me out. If the politics worked, the crime wouldn't have been a problem and if the politics had worked people wouldn't be driven out. There are a lot of great people in these cities that are stuck. Not enough money to live well like the politicians do and not enough money to go anywhere else. It's kind of like the great country estates of the Edwardian era. Not enough to keep them going and no will to end it quick and start over until it's too late and all is lost. I don't think charging the tenant farmers more to drive their tractors on the land is going to save the Edwardians.
 

Asher

Well-Known Member
Let them eat cake.

Public transportation doesn't solve everything for everyone. I have friends in NYC and I hear first hand how commuters are abused on subways. People shoved onto tracks at stations. Men urinating inside the cars. Homeless sleeping in stations and stairwells and cars. Many women these days won't chance taking the subway. There are fewer cops policing the subways than ever before. Easy enough to find the stories.
There are bikes, ebikes, and mopeds too.
 

Asher

Well-Known Member
In my opinion it's the product of entrenched politicians and beurocrats that are doing the things that make them feel good and virtuous, things they think should work if we give it more time and money. When it fails, they feel we just need to give it more time and money. I've worked in big cities, I lived in a big city for 9 years. Not my natural habitat. Crime and politics drove me out. If the politics worked, the crime wouldn't have been a problem and if the politics had worked people wouldn't be driven out. There are a lot of great people in these cities that are stuck. Not enough money to live well like the politicians do and not enough money to go anywhere else. It's kind of like the great country estates of the Edwardian era. Not enough to keep them going and no will to end it quick and start over until it's too late and all is lost. I don't think charging the tenant farmers more to drive their tractors on the land is going to save the Edwardians.
NYC is safer than the US as a whole, because the crash death rate is so much lower (1.6/100k per year) than nationally (11), that it makes up for the higher homicide rate (11 vs 5). People's perspectives are addled by ignoring car crashes.

And I can't imagine any regular NYC subway user caring that homeless people are sleeping on the subway, lol.
 

J.R.

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
And I can't imagine any regular NYC subway user caring that homeless people are sleeping on the subway, lol
Maybe not a 35 year old male. Ask a 50 year old nurse trying to get to her shift at the hospital, especially during the pandemic. They will not step foot in the subway - I hear that firsthand.
 

MartsEbike

Well-Known Member
Region
Other
Surprised anyone takes these newspapers seriously... long gone are the days of honest journalism.

The 11 (and increasing) pages of this thread that followed show how easy it is to get people arguing.....

Anyways, the real news here is that there isn't any news here.
 

aml

New Member
Region
USA
This has been an issue in Nyc forever. They banned them for a while then when CITIbike made the rental ebikes possible they change the law just for them and legalized ebikes
Chris Nolte at Propel had a video about being fined $25,000 for selling ebikes when he first opened up his shop.
From his vantagepoint, the law "a 2 or 3 wheeled vehicle that can be operated without human assistance will be considered a scooter, and if it can't be registered, it can't be operated on public streets" didn't cover pedal assist bicycles. He brought that to court and won (and created precedent) slightly before the citibike lobbying for new laws.
 
Last edited:

aml

New Member
Region
USA
This is how the ugly art of sausage making (laws and regulations) is done. These days it's even uglier, with media taking sides. Oh, that's nothing new, there's just more of it and more outlets are willing to bend the truth to obtain the outcome they prefer.

Sometimes related. The media needs access to members of the government to effectively report on issues. Government needs support to pass their agenda (or block someone else's agenda) Seeing media spin is often a sort of canary-in-a-coal-mine of what can appear legislatively down the road
 

jabberwocky

Well-Known Member
The latter seems to be happening via escape from New York. They lost enough population in 2 years to lose a seat in Congress.

Not strictly true. They failed to gain population at the rate of other states over 10 years and lost a seat, but NYC and New York State are still (slowly) gaining population (well, NYC had a tiny decrease in 2019/2020, but every other year since 1980, including 2021, has been a positive change). NYS added almost a million people between 2010 and 2020.

That said, NYC city government is notoriously inept and wasteful. The richest city in the world and it still looks like a shithole (scaffolding, garbage, subway stations...)

This is true, unfortunately. NYC has certainly made strides in the cycling infrastructure department in recent years, but its still a surprisingly car-centric place for the densest city in the US.
 

kmccune

Active Member
Maybe not a 35 year old male. Ask a 50 year old nurse trying to get to her shift at the hospital, especially during the pandemic. They will not step foot in the subway - I hear that firsthand.
Maybe the Hospitals need Dorms, that in itself would encourage more OT and perhaps a perk like this would help alleviate the paucity of Healthcare workers( with secure storage for the commuter bike used to get home on.)
 

Asher

Well-Known Member
This is true, unfortunately. NYC has certainly made strides in the cycling infrastructure department in recent years, but its still a surprisingly car-centric place for the densest city in the US.
Yeah I had that exact reaction on my last visit. All I could think was, people say LA is very car centric and it is, but at least it's because people are commuting 10 miles a day to work by car. In NYC, it's a few rich or otherwise parking privileged people driving, and you don't have the dense network of calm residential streets like LA to get away from the cars, on foot or bike. Insanity... But far easier to fix if NYC ever finds a will to.
 

Art Deco

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
Selinsgrove Pennsylvania
Yeah I had that exact reaction on my last visit. All I could think was, people say LA is very car centric and it is, but at least it's because people are commuting 10 miles a day to work by car. In NYC, it's a few rich or otherwise parking privileged people driving, and you don't have the dense network of calm residential streets like LA to get away from the cars, on foot or bike. Insanity... But far easier to fix if NYC ever finds a will to.
Correct. Policy changes fast. Distance is forever.
 

J.R.

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
It's going to be difficult getting a fair hearing, given how the media reports incidents with so called "ebikes".

Screenshot_20210803-132443_Chrome.jpg



Not what most of us call an ebike.
 

J.R.

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
The people framing the argument, or the crime, don't really care about the facts it seems. It's a means to an end to call anything electric with two wheels an ebike.


"I was sitting on a bench at the Urby waterfront prk in Stapleton a few weeks ago, trying to get a look at one of those Strawberry Moons.

I stood up to go to the railing by the water and nearly got run over by an e-bike going at a pretty good clip. I had no idea it was even coming. That’s how quiet it was."


As if this wouldn't happen with an unassisted bicycle.
 

Stefan Mikes

Well-Known Member
Region
Europe
City
Brwinów (PL)
I need to explain I'm not "angry" at J.R. but at the media view on so-called "e-bikes".