e-not-bikes

Clyde

Active Member
So, yeah... Haven't even finished my first ebike build, and really ought to be concentrating on that, but late nights on the web and YouTube can result in all kinds of madness. So as I'm looking at the 'basketball that transforms into an e-unicycle' and various hideously ugly enclosed-cabin trikes what pops up but a weird-looking megascooter with a 26" front wheel and a 20" rear, and a hub motor up front(?).

'Okay, WTH is that?', I wondered, and dug in for some research.

So it turns out that's a kickbike.

1594753315965.png


Apparently the Amish use(d) them because a drivetrain makes the Babyjesus cry or something. Don't know how they feel about disc brakes. But that got me wondering, 'what's it for'?

I'll tell you what it's for.

Back in the late 1970s my dad came home one day with a German Shorthaired Pointer, who we named Waylon Jennings of Radiant Aroda (he was a purebred dog, but they'd cropped his tail too short so he couldn't show, and was sent to a pet store!). Well once Waylon and I got to know each other a bit, and he grew to his full 70 lbs, he and I used to go out for 'walks'. I'd tie his leash to my handlebar, or hold it while I skated or rode a skateboard, and we'd haul butt down the promenade by the Boating Chanel in SW DC. Turns out we'd invented something called 'Bikejoring' or 'Scooter Mushing'.

1594753692928.png


Given Americans' love for dogs and bikes, I'm amazed that the scene here is so tiny, but over in Yurp you can't enter the supermarket without tripping over a kickbike, it seems. Just go to Amazon.de and search for them. Dozens of models from multiple manufacturers, all looking well-built and up to the task. In Scandinavia it seems they forego the dog and just race them around a track.

1594753761714.png


Apparently they work for Downhill, too.

1594753811424.png


So, okay. A vehicle suited to being externally powered, with nice anchors and a lightweight, minimal frame. Stands to reason someone would electrify one. And they have.

1594753912244.png


But weirdly, IMVHO. Why a front hub motor rather than the rear? And 'ugh' to yet another ugly plastic lozenge battery case.

But it did get me thinking about other things that are dog-powered, like the green 'urban mushing' cart I posted in another thread.

1594754038502.png


Born for a series of hub motors if anything ever was, eh? Shame about the $5k pricetag...

So I started looking around and the two best/only candidates for a build both come from kickbikesus.com, which is the US distributor for Kickbike Worldwide. There's a fat-tire version that screams, 'overpower me!' at about a grand, and two 'cross' models with nice brakes. They've got 26" wheels up front, and 20" at the rear that run just under $600. Not bad!

Got to talking with The Boy, who politely tolerates my endless babbling about batteries and such, and has stated that he has no interest in an e-bike, and the instant he saw the scooter he was all in. Damned Gen Z kids... Practically Amish! He's 12, and just over 5', though, and I think a full-sized model would likely be cumbersome for him, and be tough to store.

So then I came across this: https://8-elephants.com/collections/off-road/products/yedoo-runrun-mezeq-disc

1594754490350.png

Mechanical disc brakes, and a 20" up front with a 16" out back on a 100mm axle: perfect for a little 500w geared hub kit, no? I was thinking I'd forego the PAS (obviously), and even the display if possible, and just run the ebrake cutoffs and a throttle, and let him carry the battery and motor controller in a backpack for stealth and security (all the expensive bits aside from the rear wheel go where he goes, and sit in a locker during school, leaving an apparently nice but acoustic scooter behind).

So any holes in my marvelous plan?

Any other ideas for stuff to electric-motorize? Some of the Fat Tad recumbent trikes look like fun, but not as much fun as a half-suspension Norwegian dog cart. Bring it!
 
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Clyde

Active Member
My grandmother, who was otherwise a lovely woman, bought me a unicycle for my, IIRC, 10th birthday. Took me three years of scraped knees and flinging the thing angrily at walls and stuff before I figured it out. Never learned to rock or ride backwards, but I could climb stairs and jump off of 3' platforms. Virginity assured!
 

Dewey

Well-Known Member
I could climb stairs and jump off of 3' platforms.
Unicycle Parkour! Most impressive. I recently fitted a pair of heavy Unicycle steel crank arms to my BBS01 as I got fed up with the aluminum Bafang one's failing (I went through 3 pairs in 4 years, always the left one failed deformed due to soft aluminum on a steel spindle), at 6" they're shorter than I'm used to but working so far.
 

Clyde

Active Member
FML... That Yedoo is a Czech product, and the website I found it on for $455 was Singapore Dollars... They do have one US dealer, out in San Diego, which lists none of their products on their website. Le sigh... Guess I'll be shelling out $600 for the 26"x20" instead of the 20"x16". At least that increases our options for motors...
 

Dewey

Well-Known Member
What about one of these Spanish brand Gravity’s downhill scooters https://www.gravity-scooters.com/ they’re imported by a few US dealers but our nearest is in Connecticut, they do a couple of electric conversions but I don’t know if those are imported here
 
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sed6

Active Member
FML... That Yedoo is a Czech product, and the website I found it on for $455 was Singapore Dollars... They do have one US dealer, out in San Diego, which lists none of their products on their website. Le sigh... Guess I'll be shelling out $600 for the 26"x20" instead of the 20"x16". At least that increases our options for motors...

20x16 is way cooler. Don't give up on the US dealer, call them. Also lectric skate boards have flat batter packs in the decks, one would fit perfectly in the floor of that scooter!
 

Clyde

Active Member
Thanks guys. I did send an email to the US shop, and we'll see what's what. The Gravity M-10 looks awesome, but IIRC their US dealer representation didn't look a lot better than Yedoo's.

The 20x16 is pretty cool, and there's actually a scooter co called Sixteen that's available here, but a 16"wheel limits the hub motor wheel kits available to, I believe, 350w with a meager 33Nm torque. The Bafang 500w hubs start at 20".

The 'frame' actually looks simple enough to weld up; just use a donor front fork for the rear and a donor head tube. The rest is just one bent round tube.

And the skateboard battery idea is epic. Thanks!
 

Clyde

Active Member
The dream is not dead! Kickbike.com will ship me a Fat Max frame with a wider rear dropout! (https://www.kickbikeus.com/product/fat-max/) I think a standard 26" MTB suspension fork and wheel out front, and a 20" fat tire in the back will slap. Or maybe even go down to a front 24" if I can maintain the geometry with a longer fork like a 27.5...
 

J.R.

Well-Known Member
So, yeah... Haven't even finished my first ebike build, and really ought to be concentrating on that, but late nights on the web and YouTube can result in all kinds of madness. So as I'm looking at the 'basketball that transforms into an e-unicycle' and various hideously ugly enclosed-cabin trikes what pops up but a weird-looking megascooter with a 26" front wheel and a 20" rear, and a hub motor up front(?).

'Okay, WTH is that?', I wondered, and dug in for some research.

So it turns out that's a kickbike.

View attachment 58903

Apparently the Amish use(d) them because a drivetrain makes the Babyjesus cry or something. Don't know how they feel about disc brakes. But that got me wondering, 'what's it for'?

I'll tell you what it's for.

Back in the late 1970s my dad came home one day with a German Shorthaired Pointer, who we named Waylon Jennings of Radiant Aroda (he was a purebred dog, but they'd cropped his tail too short so he couldn't show, and was sent to a pet store!). Well once Waylon and I got to know each other a bit, and he grew to his full 70 lbs, he and I used to go out for 'walks'. I'd tie his leash to my handlebar, or hold it while I skated or rode a skateboard, and we'd haul butt down the promenade by the Boating Chanel in SW DC. Turns out we'd invented something called 'Bikejoring' or 'Scooter Mushing'.

View attachment 58904

Given Americans' love for dogs and bikes, I'm amazed that the scene here is so tiny, but over in Yurp you can't enter the supermarket without tripping over a kickbike, it seems. Just go to Amazon.de and search for them. Dozens of models from multiple manufacturers, all looking well-built and up to the task. In Scandinavia it seems they forego the dog and just race them around a track.

View attachment 58905

Apparently they work for Downhill, too.

View attachment 58906

So, okay. A vehicle suited to being externally powered, with nice anchors and a lightweight, minimal frame. Stands to reason someone would electrify one. And they have.

View attachment 58907

But weirdly, IMVHO. Why a front hub motor rather than the rear? And 'ugh' to yet another ugly plastic lozenge battery case.

But it did get me thinking about other things that are dog-powered, like the green 'urban mushing' cart I posted in another thread.

View attachment 58908

Born for a series of hub motors if anything ever was, eh? Shame about the $5k pricetag...

So I started looking around and the two best/only candidates for a build both come from kickbikesus.com, which is the US distributor for Kickbike Worldwide. There's a fat-tire version that screams, 'overpower me!' at about a grand, and two 'cross' models with nice brakes. They've got 26" wheels up front, and 20" at the rear that run just under $600. Not bad!

Got to talking with The Boy, who politely tolerates my endless babbling about batteries and such, and has stated that he has no interest in an e-bike, and the instant he saw the scooter he was all in. Damned Gen Z kids... Practically Amish! He's 12, and just over 5', though, and I think a full-sized model would likely be cumbersome for him, and be tough to store.

So then I came across this: https://8-elephants.com/collections/off-road/products/yedoo-runrun-mezeq-disc

View attachment 58913
Mechanical disc brakes, and a 20" up front with a 16" out back on a 100mm axle: perfect for a little 500w geared hub kit, no? I was thinking I'd forego the PAS (obviously), and even the display if possible, and just run the ebrake cutoffs and a throttle, and let him carry the battery and motor controller in a backpack for stealth and security (all the expensive bits aside from the rear wheel go where he goes, and sit in a locker during school, leaving an apparently nice but acoustic scooter behind).

So any holes in my marvelous plan?

Any other ideas for stuff to electric-motorize? Some of the Fat Tad recumbent trikes look like fun, but not as much fun as a half-suspension Norwegian dog cart. Bring it!
I see young Amish men on those kick bikes every day. They can put a lot of real bikers to shame on the big hills around here. Kick bikes are one of the few bicycles that are still made in the USA. Not all obviously and small numbers I would think. The ones I've been able to see up close are very well made.
 
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Clyde

Active Member
I wish someone in the USA made one with disc brakes. As far as I can tell all of the performance models are made in a couple of factories in Zhejiang .

Life would be a whole lot easier if I just threw a hub motor into the front wheel of their Max 20+, but something in me recoils at the idea. Loss of the ability to do donuts aside, why are front hub motors bad and wrong (or am I)?
 

FlatSix911

Well-Known Member
So, yeah... Haven't even finished my first ebike build, and really ought to be concentrating on that, but late nights on the web and YouTube can result in all kinds of madness.
So as I'm looking at the 'basketball that transforms into an e-unicycle' and various hideously ugly enclosed-cabin trikes what pops up but a weird-looking megascooter with a 26" front wheel and a 20" rear, and a hub motor up front(?).

'Okay, WTH is that?', I wondered, and dug in for some research. So it turns out that's a kickbike.

View attachment 58903

Apparently the Amish use(d) them because a drivetrain makes the Babyjesus cry or something. Don't know how they feel about disc brakes. But that got me wondering, 'what's it for'?

I'll tell you what it's for.

Back in the late 1970s my dad came home one day with a German Shorthaired Pointer, who we named Waylon Jennings of Radiant Aroda (he was a purebred dog, but they'd cropped his tail too short so he couldn't show, and was sent to a pet store!). Well once Waylon and I got to know each other a bit, and he grew to his full 70 lbs, he and I used to go out for 'walks'. I'd tie his leash to my handlebar, or hold it while I skated or rode a skateboard, and we'd haul butt down the promenade by the Boating Chanel in SW DC. Turns out we'd invented something called 'Bikejoring' or 'Scooter Mushing'.

View attachment 58904

Given Americans' love for dogs and bikes, I'm amazed that the scene here is so tiny, but over in Yurp you can't enter the supermarket without tripping over a kickbike, it seems. Just go to Amazon.de and search for them. Dozens of models from multiple manufacturers, all looking well-built and up to the task. In Scandinavia it seems they forego the dog and just race them around a track.

View attachment 58905

Apparently they work for Downhill, too.

View attachment 58906

So, okay. A vehicle suited to being externally powered, with nice anchors and a lightweight, minimal frame. Stands to reason someone would electrify one. And they have.

View attachment 58907

But weirdly, IMVHO. Why a front hub motor rather than the rear? And 'ugh' to yet another ugly plastic lozenge battery case.

But it did get me thinking about other things that are dog-powered, like the green 'urban mushing' cart I posted in another thread.

View attachment 58908

Born for a series of hub motors if anything ever was, eh? Shame about the $5k pricetag...

So I started looking around and the two best/only candidates for a build both come from kickbikesus.com, which is the US distributor for Kickbike Worldwide. There's a fat-tire version that screams, 'overpower me!' at about a grand, and two 'cross' models with nice brakes. They've got 26" wheels up front, and 20" at the rear that run just under $600. Not bad!

Got to talking with The Boy, who politely tolerates my endless babbling about batteries and such, and has stated that he has no interest in an e-bike, and the instant he saw the scooter he was all in. Damned Gen Z kids... Practically Amish! He's 12, and just over 5', though, and I think a full-sized model would likely be cumbersome for him, and be tough to store.

So then I came across this: https://8-elephants.com/collections/off-road/products/yedoo-runrun-mezeq-disc

View attachment 58913
Mechanical disc brakes, and a 20" up front with a 16" out back on a 100mm axle: perfect for a little 500w geared hub kit, no? I was thinking I'd forego the PAS (obviously), and even the display if possible, and just run the ebrake cutoffs and a throttle, and let him carry the battery and motor controller in a backpack for stealth and security (all the expensive bits aside from the rear wheel go where he goes, and sit in a locker during school, leaving an apparently nice but acoustic scooter behind).

So any holes in my marvelous plan?

Any other ideas for stuff to electric-motorize? Some of the Fat Tad recumbent trikes look like fun, but not as much fun as a half-suspension Norwegian dog cart. Bring it!

I have no words. Long may you ride... ;)

1594874030084.png
;)
 
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Dewey

Well-Known Member
Kick bikes are one of the few bicycles that are still made in the USA.
Yes, driving through Lancaster County, I could see how useful they are for people riding them on the horse drawn buggy lanes adjacent to the highways, some younger people getting up to real speed on the downhills. Here's a good article with photos of Groffdale Machine Company in Lancaster County https://letskickscoot.com/scooter_manufacturers/ I like they use Wald baskets, and include trailer hitches, Amish scooters and red wagons are great because they're not toys but are designed to be used.
 

Clyde

Active Member
Learned last night that Gravity Kickbikes will ship frames internationally, and OP Scooters does, too! The Gravity M10 is a beast, and sports a 100mm rear dropout spacing. And so does the Pixie 20"x16". Victory is mine!

And I'd like to see a foot bike with a basket do this:
 
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Clyde

Active Member
So it looks like I can get my paws on four different donors for this kickbike build, each with its own challenges. All have disc brakes and 100mm or better spacing at the rear dropouts.

My favorite is the Gravity M10, which looks obscenely overbuilt and very cool. I could order a frame shipped direct from Spain for ~ $500 and build it out from there. Means buying a front fork and wheel, stem and bars, and brakes. The most expensive and time-consuming option, but the result will be a bike he can ride until he's old and gray like his Dad.

1594931699364.png


I also got a kind offer from Kickbike to ship me a Fat Max frame. A more expensive option even than the Gravity, and the largest frame of the bunch, but I could run a 20" fat tire at the back, a 29er fork, and a 24"x2.3" up front for that Mad Max / Daryl Dixon vibe. And the Bafang fat rear hub kit goes 750w rather than the 500 of the standard front and rear hubs (although with the right controller they're capable of much more than 500w).

1594931982750.png


The next contender, and the one I wouldn't have to look abroad for (as someone's imported it for me, already), is the Cruissis Cross. Very similar to a Kickbikes Max 20+, but has the wide rear dropout spacing. ~$700 shipped from Cali., and probably the quickest and easiest to put together.

1594932115876.png


And, finally, the Yedoo RunRun Mezeq, which is the smallest and least expensive of the bunch. The downsides are that the 16" rear wheel isn't available as a 500w kit from Bafang, and I have to wonder if I'd be able to find short enough spokes to lace one up if 250w wasn't enough. I've set my son the task of deciding how and where he's most likely to be riding, and if he decides he's going to be strictly paths, sidewalks, and maybe a little gravel this could still be an option. He could always get a taller headset if he ends up tall. Still, seems like a toy compared to the other bikes. Maybe I could grind it down just a little, put a 20" wheel out back, and fit a 24" up front...

1594932390827.png


Any thoughts? I think that the feel of rear wheel drive is worth shooting for. Don't want to instill any bad habits like front wheel drive in the boy while he's young and impressionable.
 

FlatSix911

Well-Known Member
So it looks like I can get my paws on four different donors for this kickbike build, each with its own challenges. All have disc brakes and 100mm or better spacing at the rear dropouts.

My favorite is the Gravity M10, which looks obscenely overbuilt and very cool. I could order a frame shipped direct from Spain for ~ $500 and build it out from there. Means buying a front fork and wheel, stem and bars, and brakes. The most expensive and time-consuming option, but the result will be a bike he can ride until he's old and gray like his Dad.

View attachment 59107

I also got a kind offer from Kickbike to ship me a Fat Max frame. A more expensive option even than the Gravity, and the largest frame of the bunch, but I could run a 20" fat tire at the back, a 29er fork, and a 24"x2.3" up front for that Mad Max / Daryl Dixon vibe. And the Bafang fat rear hub kit goes 750w rather than the 500 of the standard front and rear hubs (although with the right controller they're capable of much more than 500w).

View attachment 59109

The next contender, and the one I wouldn't have to look abroad for (as someone's imported it for me, already), is the Cruissis Cross. Very similar to a Kickbikes Max 20+, but has the wide rear dropout spacing. ~$700 shipped from Cali., and probably the quickest and easiest to put together.

View attachment 59110

And, finally, the Yedoo RunRun Mezeq, which is the smallest and least expensive of the bunch. The downsides are that the 16" rear wheel isn't available as a 500w kit from Bafang, and I have to wonder if I'd be able to find short enough spokes to lace one up if 250w wasn't enough. I've set my son the task of deciding how and where he's most likely to be riding, and if he decides he's going to be strictly paths, sidewalks, and maybe a little gravel this could still be an option. He could always get a taller headset if he ends up tall. Still, seems like a toy compared to the other bikes. Maybe I could grind it down just a little, put a 20" wheel out back, and fit a 24" up front...

View attachment 59111

Any thoughts? I think that the feel of rear-wheel drive is worth shooting for. Don't want to instill any bad habits like front-wheel drive in the boy while he's young and impressionable.

Very interesting options... my vote is for the Fat Max! ;)
 

Clyde

Active Member
IKR? But he'll be riding it, not me, and he's not impressed at all by fat little wheels. Where did I go wrong...?
 

Dewey

Well-Known Member
I found domestic shipping and customer service helpful when I needed to return ebike parts so I'd vote for the Crussis Cross