E-scooter rider BUSTED for operating without licence & insurance

Dave Rocks

Member
It's about time. I hate that these elerctric motorcycles are classified like an E-Bike.

Here's a few blurbs from the News Report...

Ali Moussa Ghadban argued in court that his Motorino XMr is a motor-assisted cycle — outfitted with pedals, limited power and a maximum speed of 32 km/h — and under B.C. law doesn't require a driver's licence or insurance to operate. But a judicial justice disagreed, and a B.C. Supreme Court judge recently upheld that decision.

It does not comply with the intent of the legislation, which was for a [motor-assisted cycle] to supplement or assist the human power required to pedal the vehicle," Jenkins wrote in his decision.

The officer testified that he saw a man riding what he believed to be a "small motorcycle" who hopped onto the plaza at King George SkyTrain Station. The officer then noted the motorcycle had pedals, but Ghadban wasn't using them.

FULL STORY: british-columbia/e-bike-rider-loses-court-case-against-ticket-for-operating-without-licence-insurance

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Nova Haibike

Well-Known Member
The story is not very accurate. First of all, the photo is not of a Motorino XMr. I am not even sure it is electric, but if it is, it is an electric motorcycle, not an e-bike. Also, when I googled the XMr, the company sells it as an electric scooter, not an e-bike. Heck, the XMr does not even have pedals. Did the own somehow install pedals on it, or is the story citing the wrong model of -e-bike? All the e-bikes on Motorino's site look like normal e-bikes to me.
 

Timpo

Well-Known Member
The story is not very accurate. First of all, the photo is not of a Motorino XMr. I am not even sure it is electric, but if it is, it is an electric motorcycle, not an e-bike. Also, when I googled the XMr, the company sells it as an electric scooter, not an e-bike. Heck, the XMr does not even have pedals. Did the own somehow install pedals on it, or is the story citing the wrong model of -e-bike? All the e-bikes on Motorino's site look like normal e-bikes to me.
I've seen those motorcycle looking "ebikes" in person several times.

They usually look like Kawasaki Ninja or Honda Grom knock offs.

Yes, they do come with pedals.

They are advertised as 500W, 32km/h, and yes, apparently they are "electric bicycles" :rolleyes:
To me, they look like motorcycles with pedals. But I don't know how the law works, so maybe by definition, these things are ebikes???

Motorino Electric (@e_motorino) | Twitter

Motorino Electric XMr Outside Victoria, Victoria - MOBILE

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Camac

Active Member
If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck it's a....................................................
 

nathaniel6QZ

New Member
e-scooter :eek:

Yeah, why not? :) If the specifications tell us it's a well-built e-scooter, hah? And talking about insurance policies and regulations, I've been looking and searching for the best insurance for my case, and the only company I could find which was helpful is this one ( website: https://www.americaninsurance.com/auto-insurance-veterans ), cause it can take into account some discounts if you're a veteran. Cool service, for sure.
 
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Alex M

Well-Known Member
Technically it's an ebike. It can be propelled by either motor or pedals or both at the same time.
In reality, everybody uses it as an e-scooter, nobody pedals it - wrong geometry and too heavy.
Despite the technicalities, the judge nailed it - this goes against the intent of motor-assisted pedaling. Good riddance.
 

E-Wheels

Well-Known Member
Technically it's an ebike. It can be propelled by either motor or pedals or both at the same time.
In reality, everybody uses it as an e-scooter, nobody pedals it - wrong geometry and too heavy.
Despite the technicalities, the judge nailed it - this goes against the intent of motor-assisted pedaling. Good riddance.
Is it a then a moped?
 

Timpo

Well-Known Member
Whatever it is, if it weighs 300 lbs it is not an ebike.
What if it was 227 lbs?

RadBurro weighs 227 lbs

I think the biggest thing is, those things look like motorcycle with pedals, rather than bicycle with a motor.
 

Timpo

Well-Known Member
Is it a then a moped?

Moped, scooter, whatever they call is usually something with 50cc engine with a top speed of 35 mph or so.
They're not necessarily electric powered, and they do not come with pedals (so they're not bicycles), so more like a motorcycle.
However, if I'm not wrong, many states do not require motorcycle license, you can ride it with a normal driver's license.

2013 Honda Metropolitan 50 | Review


I don't know if it's just me, but I had an impression that moped was an acronym for "motor + pedal" bikes.
Like Tomos mopeds.
2005 Tomos ST (A35) specifications and pictures

1989 Tomos Bullet - YouTube
 
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steve mercier

Well-Known Member
It's listed on the website as a scooter...not an e-bike. Busted and dusted. Next.
Yup I had one of those blow by me in the dedicated bike lane on the Burrard bridge. I was going about 30km and he passed closely by me at maybe 60 km. I never saw him in my mirror and it scared the Jeebus out of me.
 

Handlebars

Well-Known Member
Region
Canada
It's not what the law explicitly states, it's what the judge states they really mean. Don't note any laxity in the law, just pencil it in against an individual.
 

Ken M

Well-Known Member
Technically it's an ebike. It can be propelled by either motor or pedals or both at the same time.
In reality, everybody uses it as an e-scooter, nobody pedals it - wrong geometry and too heavy.
Despite the technicalities, the judge nailed it - this goes against the intent of motor-assisted pedaling. Good riddance.

I have always thought that "intent" of the law was far more important than letter of the law because it would allow for much simpler laws. But that is not the way the US or Cananda legal systems have been going because lawyers love to find the tiniest of loopholes such that letter has taken over. I have seen things in low level county courts that were nothing but lawyers and judges using the system to keep money flowing thru the system and this case sounds a whole lot like that.

If the ebike complied with the letter of the ebike regulations it makes no sense for the judge to subjectively say that it was not compliant with the intent because in their very next case they would like just revert to letter of the law if it benefited them.
 

jaizon

Active Member
This, (IMHO) is not an e-bike and I don't want it lumped in with my e-bike, or my e-bike lumped in with it. I understand the rugged individualist point of view expressed in this thread, but sometimes common sense and logic has to take precedence over personal feelings. I also understand not liking te courts' ruling, but a Formula 1 car should never be street legal, unless you alter it to fill all the requirements of a street legal car (of course, then it wouldn't be an F1 car). Don't like the laws? get them changedd. Don't like the system? That's a whole other story.
 

Ken M

Well-Known Member
Judges pencil in their own law. It's Canada.

Judges do conveniently go back and forth between letter of the law and intent of the law ruling to ensure their is cash flowing into the legal system. I once had a judge tell me why lawyers and judges behave the way they do in many cases....he literally said how do you expect them to make a living. He was literally justifying them breaking their own rules which I said was no different than anyone taking the law into their own hands. I was suggesting that I would do that but he understood my point as to why they can't use their power that way.