E-scooter rider BUSTED for operating without licence & insurance

Captain Slow

Well-Known Member
I'm glad to see the judges ruling. I have seen way too many of these scooters in the bike lanes where the person on them isn't even attempting to use the pedals. They just sit there and cruise along. Hopefully this starts a reduction of these vehicles.
 

Alex M

Well-Known Member
I have seen way too many of these scooters in the bike lanes where the person on them isn't even attempting to use the pedals.
Because he can't use pedals. It is not made for pedaling, single gear and the geometry is wrong. These pedals are getting in the way, making ride uncomfortable and dangerous. Some just remove the pedals or put a bungee cord on it. It is a low-speed scooter pretending to be an ebike, to avoid licensing and insurance.

They can get stoned on weed or drunk and still can't be stopped from sharing the road. Some are not low-speed even. Bikes are enjoying same privileges but a partially assisted or non-powered bike requires a fair amount of pedaling, they are less likely to do this "under the influence".
 

FlatSix911

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
Silicon Valley
It's about time. I hate that these elerctric motorcycles are classified like an E-Bike.

Here's a few blurbs from the News Report...

Ali Moussa Ghadban argued in court that his Motorino XMr is a motor-assisted cycle — outfitted with pedals, limited power and a maximum speed of 32 km/h — and under B.C. law doesn't require a driver's licence or insurance to operate. But a judicial justice disagreed, and a B.C. Supreme Court judge recently upheld that decision.

It does not comply with the intent of the legislation, which was for a [motor-assisted cycle] to supplement or assist the human power required to pedal the vehicle," Jenkins wrote in his decision.

The officer testified that he saw a man riding what he believed to be a "small motorcycle" who hopped onto the plaza at King George SkyTrain Station. The officer then noted the motorcycle had pedals, but Ghadban wasn't using them.

FULL STORY: british-columbia/e-bike-rider-loses-court-case-against-ticket-for-operating-without-licence-insurance

electric-scooters.jpg

Busted... fake news with the wrong photos. ;)
 
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Handlebars

Well-Known Member
Region
Canada
They can get stoned on weed or drunk and still can't be stopped from sharing the road.
I think you're confusing bicycle with ebike, Alex, they are not the same under law. Intoxicated ebike riders can be imprisoned.

"If you're on an e-bike, we could charge you with impaired driving under the Criminal Code of Canada," says Toronto Police Traffic Services Const. ... Under the criminal code, it's an offence to operate a motor vehicle, including an e-bike, while impaired by alcohol or drugs, even if your blood alcohol level is below . 08.Aug 5, 2014"

"
Q7: What are the penalties for riding an e-bike while drunk?


Drinking and driving a motor vehicle is a Criminal Code offence and charges are laid under the Criminal Code of Canada. Under the Criminal Code, the definition of a "motor vehicle" includes an e-bike, and anyone operating an e-bike intoxicated could be charged for impaired driving. If convicted, the offender would be subject to the Criminal Code penalties, including a fine or jail time, and a driving prohibition"


It's also illegal to ride an ebike when your driver's licence is suspended for intoxicated driving.
 
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Martinet

Member
Discussion reminds me of assault rifle ban debate. Pro regulatory side seems to want to call it an assault rifle if it looks like a military weapon, whether or not it has the features of the military weapon, AR-15 vs. M16. They would also ban something that didn't so resemble, if it had say a 10 shot magazine. They have come up with such specious arguments as who needs to hunt with a semi auto with 10 bullets. The truth is, the U.S. constitution doesn't protect hunting, but the right to keep the bear arms (second Amendment). "Bear arms" has a martial/ self defense historical context. I can think of situations where such a weapon would be appropriate for self defense.

I can also think of certain contexts (such as tax law) where either the meaning of the statue or the letter of the law is selected and upheld so as to uphold the government's position.


I am glad the in the U.S we are basically protected from warrant-less searches by the 4th Amendment, unlike Canada. Oops, except for game wardens and bounty hunters of course.
 

dmark

Active Member
Some of these bikes have been advertised on Kijiji as not needing license or insurance.

I knew someone was going to get busted for riding something that looked too much like a motorcycle.

That said, I won't narc on you, and I hope you won't narc on me.
 

legsofbeer

Active Member
I've seen those motorcycle looking "ebikes" in person several times.

They usually look like Kawasaki Ninja or Honda Grom knock offs.

Yes, they do come with pedals.

They are advertised as 500W, 32km/h, and yes, apparently they are "electric bicycles" :rolleyes:
To me, they look like motorcycles with pedals. But I don't know how the law works, so maybe by definition, these things are ebikes???

Motorino Electric (@e_motorino) | Twitter

Motorino Electric XMr Outside Victoria, Victoria - MOBILE

img_8796.jpg

img_7079.jpg

rebel-poster.jpg
I don't see cranking type bicycle pedals in any of your four pictures.
 

Stefan Mikes

Well-Known Member
Region
Europe
City
Brwinów (PL)
The guy was riding a scooter. He lied it was an e-bike. Canada has specific e-bike laws. The guy was tried and found guilty. Why to discuss that at all?

1588835107957.png

Motorino XMr description.
 

Timpo

Well-Known Member
Motorino bikes come with pedals, and I don't see insurance plate.
Yes, they're technically bicycles :rolleyes: so I guess you can use it on bike lane.

Daymak EM2
No license, no insurance.
 
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opimax

Well-Known Member
I asked earlier , weren’t the the pedals used to start the original mopeds. I asked because if they were they are functional pedals ...for starting a moped but not functional to ride more than a few feet due to the gearing be so high
 

jaizon

Active Member
Motorino bikes come with pedals, and I don't see insurance plate.
Yes, they're technically bicycles :rolleyes: so I guess you can use it on bike lane.

Daymak EM2
No license, no insurance.

Wow! that last one is positively embarrassing. 😆 😆 😆
 

Timpo

Well-Known Member
The guy was riding a scooter. He lied it was an e-bike. Canada has specific e-bike laws. The guy was tried and found guilty. Why to discuss that at all?

View attachment 51715
Motorino XMr description.
Yea, but I don't know if this guy was lying though.

The sellers that sell these kinds of "ebikes" openly advertise it as an electric bicycle, no license and insurance needed.

I'm not sure if the buyer should be fully responsible even if product was falsely presented. 🙄 Also, maybe the seller did check the law prior to selling those bikes. In that case, it is going to be difficult to determine who is responsible.
 
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Alex M

Well-Known Member
I think they put pedals just so that they can meet the legal definition of ebikes, not for practical reasons.
True. They are exploiting the loophole in regulations and will keep doing it until the loophole exists.
Precedent decisions could eventually change this. Or provincial lawmakers will change the regulations and make pay everybody on anything that meets legal definition of ebikes if you want to use it on the road.
 

TMH

Well-Known Member
True. They are exploiting the loophole in regulations and will keep doing it until the loophole exists.
Precedent decisions could eventually change this. Or provincial lawmakers will change the regulations and make pay everybody on anything that meets legal definition of ebikes if you want to use it on the road.
What exactly is a 'loophole'?

Laws and regulations don't cover everything, and may well have been written and approved intentionally the way they are.

Then some politicians see something in a law which they want covered because they perceive that it imparts some benefit to their counterparts in a different party. All of a sudden it is a 'loophole'.

Why don't they just call it a poorly written law? Probably because that won't connote that their enemies are 'getting away with something' like they want the public to believe. And/or one of their own colleagues may have written the particular law, and they may have even voted themselves to pass it.

There is no such thing as a 'loophole'. A law or regulation either covers something or it does not. And it may have been very intentional that it did not. If it is a bad law or regulation because it doesn't cover something important in a proper manner, create new legislation. Or just continue to play the political game and call it a loophole so that a gullible public believes that your political enemies are doing something bad/improper.

I'm all for anybody and everybody to utilize 'loopholes.' It means that they are complying with the law as written and approved.
 

PDoz

Well-Known Member
I'm all for anybody and everybody to utilize 'loopholes.' It means that they are complying with the law as written and approved.

Perhaps you may wish to consider it's not the politicians who created these imperfect laws ? Between lobby groups, voter backlash, and industries blatantly looking for ways to exploit the legal imperfections, perhaps you may want to accept it's time to stop blaming the politicians and start expecting society to take some responsibility?

Do you honestly want young children to be sharing bicycle paths with morons on electric motorbikes that have pedals to exploit a loophole?