E-scooter rider BUSTED for operating without licence & insurance

TMH

Well-Known Member
Perhaps you may wish to consider it's not the politicians who created these imperfect laws ? Between lobby groups, voter backlash, and industries blatantly looking for ways to exploit the legal imperfections, perhaps you may want to accept it's time to stop blaming the politicians and start expecting society to take some responsibility?

Do you honestly want young children to be sharing bicycle paths with morons on electric motorbikes that have pedals to exploit a loophole?
It is the job of politicians to creates and implement appropriate laws. If they cannot or will not, why are they remain in office?

I certainly was not present when these laws applying to e-bikes were written, discussed and passed. Were there justifiable and valid reasons why what you have categorized (I believe incorrectly) as 'electric motorbikes' were not banned? I certainly cannot say because I was not there. Were you? Do you have full and complete information on the basis of the law as implemented?

Or is it just something which you don't like, and therefore wish to paint with the politically concocted phrase of 'loophole'?

Something is either legal per an existing law or regulation, or it is not. If the law or regulation is inadequate it should be changed, utilizing the same process by which it was originally written and approved. This allows it to correctly include, or exclude certain behaviors, parameters or definitions which balance the needs of the society. At least this is the way things are supposed to work.
 

PDoz

Well-Known Member
It is the job of politicians to creates and implement appropriate laws. If they cannot or will not, why are they remain in office?

I certainly was not present when these laws applying to e-bikes were written, discussed and passed. Were there justifiable and valid reasons why what you have categorized (I believe incorrectly) as 'electric motorbikes' were not banned? I certainly cannot say because I was not there. Were you? Do you have full and complete information on the basis of the law as implemented?

Or is it just something which you don't like, and therefore wish to paint with the politically concocted phrase of 'loophole'?

Something is either legal per an existing law or regulation, or it is not. If the law or regulation is inadequate it should be changed, utilizing the same process by which it was originally written and approved . This allows it to correctly include, or exclude certain behaviors, parameters or definitions which balance the needs of the society.At least this is the way things are supposed to work.

Firstly, I suspect we live in different countries with different mechanisms for law formation and reform. I don't know why you perceive politicians as the people responsible, but most politicians see their job as getting re elected

In my country, Australia, any electrically powered two wheeled vehicle with over250 w nominal power and assistance beyond 25 kph is classed as an electric motorbike. If it has a throttle, that drops back to 200 w . So those are motorbikes with pedals attached.

Right back at you " . This allows it to correctly include, or exclude certain behaviors, parameters or definitions which balance the needs of the society. " . Yet you advocate manipulating the intent of legislature to allow individuals to behave against the needs of society. So again, would you be comfortable with mr Moron riding these vehicles on shared paths with children?
 

FlatSix911

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
Silicon Valley
It's about time. I hate that these elerctric motorcycles are classified like an E-Bike. Here's a few blurbs from the News Report...

Ali Moussa Ghadban argued in court that his Motorino XMr is a motor-assisted cycle — outfitted with pedals, limited power and a maximum speed of 32 km/h —
and under B.C. law doesn't require a driver's licence or insurance to operate. But a judicial justice disagreed, and a B.C. Supreme Court judge recently upheld that decision.

It does not comply with the intent of the legislation, which was for a [motor-assisted cycle] to supplement or assist the human power required to pedal the vehicle," Jenkins wrote in his decision.
The officer testified that he saw a man riding what he believed to be a "small motorcycle" who hopped onto the plaza at King George SkyTrain Station. The officer then noted the motorcycle had pedals, but Ghadban wasn't using them.

FULL STORY: british-columbia/e-bike-rider-loses-court-case-against-ticket-for-operating-without-licence-insurance

I wonder how a judge would rule on this EBike? For the police... it's often Do as I say, not as I do... ;)


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TMH

Well-Known Member
...but most politicians see their job as getting re elected
Sadly so true, regardless of country.

Yes, it appears that our differences of opinion may be largely based on our home geographies. In the U.S., at least in the state of California with which I am most familiar with the laws, there is a defined category of low power electric scooter. These must have pedals per the law (which are largely cosmetic on all such scooters I have seen, but are present and will at least move the bike on its own for a few feet), they have a twist grip throttle, limit on the power of the electric motor and limit on the top speed (IIRC somewhere between 20-30mph).

These electric scooters are allowed to share the roadway with other vehicles where the posted speed limit is 35mph or less. They are not, therefore, allowed on highways, freeways, expressways, throughways or even some local streets with a higher speed limit.

More importantly they are not allowed in bike lanes, on bike paths or bike trails. So they may be mixing it up with other traffic, but that is vehicular traffic which is much larger and faster than they are. So if owners of these vehicles understand the law, and if adequate enforcement of the law is in place, kids and other folks on bikes/e-bikes on the bike trails won't have to mix it up with these electric scooters.
 

Handlebars

Well-Known Member
Region
Canada
Perhaps you may wish to consider it's not the politicians who created these imperfect laws ? Between lobby groups, voter backlash, and industries blatantly looking for ways to exploit the legal imperfections, perhaps you may want to accept it's time to stop blaming the politicians and start expecting society to take some responsibility?

Do you honestly want young children to be sharing bicycle paths with morons on electric motorbikes that have pedals to exploit a loophole?
Of course it is the politicians who created the laws. To deny that is to deny the simple truth in favour of virtue signalling progressive nonsense where words don't mean what they mean until you want them to mean what they mean again.
 

Handlebars

Well-Known Member
Region
Canada
Do you honestly want young children to be sharing bicycle paths with morons on electric motorbikes that have pedals to exploit a loophole
That virtue-signalling shaming tactic is absurd.
There are possible remedies, such as setting speed limits on such pathways with young children expected on them, at, say, 10 km/hr, pass only on one side, must alert by bell or horn, etc.
A job of politicians is to argue and make good laws and amend them where necessary. Sometimes other authorities such a parks authorities can set rules. It's not that difficult a concept to grasp.
 

PDoz

Well-Known Member
That virtue-signalling shaming tactic is absurd.
There are possible remedies, such as setting speed limits on such pathways with young children expected on them, at, say, 10 km/hr, pass only on one side, must alert by bell or horn, etc.
A job of politicians is to argue and make good laws and amend them where necessary. Sometimes other authorities such a parks authorities can set rules. It's not that difficult a concept to grasp.

Don't even think about accusing me of virtue signalling until you recognise this is s global forum and your perspective is narrow.

Now go do some research on common law before stubbornly coming back and arguing your fixed belief.

And perhaps try to recognise this incident occurred under Canadian law.
 
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bob armani

Well-Known Member
I wonder how a judge would rule on this EBike? For the police... it's often Do as I say, not as I do... ;)


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On many occasions, you see cops making rules that only apply to themselves, but not for everyone else. Whatever is convenient for them at the time IMO.
 

Handlebars

Well-Known Member
Region
Canada
Don't even think about accusing me of virtue signalling until you recognise this is s global forum and your perspective is narrow.

Now go do some research on common law before stubbornly coming back and arguing your fixed belief.

And perhaps try to recognise this incident occurred under Canadian law.
Oh. You tacked on a little something.
I'm Canadian. Maybe you'll tell me next that I'm to not dare think I'm Canadian?
 

Alex M

Well-Known Member
In the U.S., at least in the state of California with which I am most familiar with the laws, there is a defined category of low power electric scooter. These must have pedals per the law (which are largely cosmetic on all such scooters I have seen, but are present ......

These electric scooters are allowed to share the roadway with other vehicles where the posted speed limit is 35mph or less......

More importantly they are not allowed in bike lanes, on bike paths or bike trails.
This makes more sense than respective Canadian regulations. You're either an bicycle or not. Less room for bending the rules.
 

BTfl

Active Member
Because he can't use pedals. It is not made for pedaling, single gear and the geometry is wrong. These pedals are getting in the way, making ride uncomfortable and dangerous. Some just remove the pedals or put a bungee cord on it. It is a low-speed scooter pretending to be an ebike, to avoid licensing and insurance.

They can get stoned on weed or drunk and still can't be stopped from sharing the road. Some are not low-speed even. Bikes are enjoying same privileges but a partially assisted or non-powered bike requires a fair amount of pedaling, they are less likely to do this "under the influence".
Where I live I have seen People on bicycles, get DUIs. They definitely stop people here if they are impaired no matter what they’re driving
 

Dallant

Well-Known Member
Where I live I have seen People on bicycles, get DUIs. They definitely stop people here if they are impaired no matter what they’re driving
I was stopped for this in the 80s. Fortunately no ticket!
If you can get stopped for public intoxication while walking down a street, you surely can for riding a bike that way.
 

bob armani

Well-Known Member
Where I live I have seen People on bicycles, get DUIs. They definitely stop people here if they are impaired no matter what they’re driving
This is kinda funny. Where I live LE could care less while riding a bicycle.
Personally, I never thought about getting in/on any vehicle with or without a motor while intoxicated. Just a recipe for disaster. The first thing I recall during driver's training was drive defensively and always watch out for the other guy while operating a motorized vehicle. So true! ;)
 
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FlatSix911

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
Silicon Valley
This is kinda funny. Where I live LE could care less while riding a bicycle.
Personally, I never thought about getting in/on any vehicle with or without a motor while intoxicated. Just a recipe for disaster.

The first thing I recall during driver's training was drive defensively and always watch out for the other guy while operating a motorized vehicle. So true! ;)

The environment is even worse today... too many people texting and driving while distracted.

More dangerous and widespread than DUI according to law enforcement! :eek:
 

Timpo

Well-Known Member
The environment is even worse today... too many people texting and driving while distracted.

More dangerous and widespread than DUI according to law enforcement! :eek:
Not just according to law enforcement. This topic has been beaten to death by so many different organizations and research institutions.
The results are quite clear.

Is it far more dangerous to text and drive than DUI.
 

FlatSix911

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
Silicon Valley
The new Segway moped... a scooter with pedals. ;)


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