ebike designed for no pedaling

TenBlinkers

Member
If George S and dustman went the same speed, I wager they'd see the same watt hours per mile. Higher speed consumes more watt hours exponentially due to wind resistance.
 

arnold ziffle

New Member
It seems like every ebike out there is designed to be pedaled. Why not just get a pedal bike? I used to ride mountain bikes, then switched to cruisers, and am now physically unable to ride a bike at all, because I can no longer pedal. Even the expensive ebikes have a VERY short range if you don't pedal. Seems like all the ebike ads give some ridiculous range, then put in fine print "with normal pedaling" Somebody please build an ebike with a decent range with NO pedaling.
My real world experience is 30 miles range at a moderate speed w/200lb rider no pedaling, moderate terrain is achieved with a 750w DD hub motor & 48v 12ah battery. Keep the tyres aired up & ride for mileage. Throttle only, the best of all possible options. Some of the companies George mentioned earlier sell them right out of the box. My Florida made step thru is the bomb, great range & power. Throttle allows me to use my power however I like on any path I like. I mount my pink girls bike & scoot safely up hills on the sidewalk without pedaling & I'm coolest kid on the block. It's way better than a moped or pedalec IMHO.
 

Cameron Newland

Well-Known Member
Sorry, I have to call you out for giving completely false figures. Especially since you are giving this advice to someone who has a disability and can't afford to run out of power 10 or 20 miles from home.

500 watt hours will under no circumstance get you 40 miles without pedaling on flat ground or especially under realistic conditions with variation in terrain, wind, and stopping and starting, etc. I have a 1000 watt hub motor with a 48 volt 18 amp hour battery(that is 864 watt hours). My maximum range on relatively flat ground with no pedaling and minimal stopping and starting and with new, fully charged batteries was 18 miles, that's about 50 watt hours per mile. My speed was about 20mph more or less. I weigh only 150 pounds. It is less than that now because batteries lose some of their capacity very quickly after their initial few cycles and continue to slowly lose capacity over time and use.

In my experience a realistic figure is about 50 watt hours per mile with realistic riding conditions keeping it under 20 mph with a healthy battery pack. This may be slightly better or worse depending on the efficiency of your drive system and other factors. You may be able to get down to 40 or less watt hours per mile if you take steps like decreasing your wind resistance by riding slowly or hunkering down, making sure tires are well inflated, accelerating slowly, etc.

Also, you don't have to rely on these insanely priced battery packs. You can build one yourself with a little research or commission a friend with a little electronic skill to build one for you for a fraction of the price. Always make sure to get batteries from a reputable source though, there tons of fakes and even the legit batteries don't quite live up to their specs. You can be pretty confident the AH rating and range claims on most premade packs and ebikes is a load of s*it. Everyone, please do your research so you don't get burned and so you end up getting what you need for a reasonable price. And unless you have money to burn, never buy an ebike that costs thousands when you can pretty easily make your own that outperforms those pieces of crap in every way. In other words, they are ripping you off and lying to you.

Pardon me. Good luck and enjoy!

George has a geared hub motor (which is more efficient than a direct-drive hub motor) and goes 15MPH. He's probably going to draw less watt-hours per mile than a 1000-watt hub motor going 20MPH. Is your hub motor geared or direct drive? If it's direct-drive, that could account for your bike's poor power-efficiency. People on this forum have different bikes that offer different levels of performance and efficiency. I draw 30-40Wh per mile on my 500W direct-drive hub motor and I pedal the whole time and never use the throttle. I'm not going to criticize someone for their performance of their bike if it works just fine for them.

Regarding batteries, most people do not want to build their own. Building your own battery is only for two kinds of people: 1) those who enjoy building their own things, learning about how things work, and have lots of tools, and 2) those who are on a budget and cannot afford a pre-built pack.

Pre-built packs have advantages over DIY packs. They often come with a warranty. They've often been tested for quality before they've been shipped out. You don't have to buy and store all the tools necessary (spot welder, etc). Pre-built packs have been improved over previous iterations of packs by integrating customer feedback into the design and production process. You don't get any of this if you build your own DIY battery. Yes, you can save a few bucks if you build your own, but then you take a lot of big risks, too. Going pre-built or going DIY is a personal choice. Ditto regarding buying a pre-built bike vs. DIY. Each route has its advantages and disadvantages, and it's up to each consumer to decide which they prefer. OEM bikes aren't all rip-offs. Yes, you may be able to build a more powerful DIY frankenbike for less money than a retail bike, but you won't get a warranty, and it'll take hours (if not days) of time to get all the parts together, install them, and troubleshoot any issues. For many of us, all that hassle just isn't worth it.
 

MLB

Well-Known Member
I do ride a scooter. a SYM HD200. But it is actually more like a small motorcycle, with a top speed of over 70 mph. A moped will not work where I live because they are not legal to ride in the bike lanes, and are to slow to ride in a traffic lane. There are those cheap Chinese 2 stroke engine kits, but they are pretty much junk, and while they are legal in the bike lanes, they are not legal on bike paths. They are also noisy. There is one particular bike path near my house that runs along a canal bank, and is over 20 miles long. I used to really enjoy evening rides along that path.

Both my knee and hip joints are in bad shape, and trying to pedal is extremely painful, in fact my doctor advised me not to do it, because it is likely to cause further damage.

As for the bitterness part, I did not mean for it to come across that way, but when you are 56 years old, and have ridden bikes all your life, and no longer can, it is a bit depressing. An ebike would not be exactly the same, but it would be close enough. It seems that there is simply no battery out there capable of the kind of range I need. This seems odd, as there as there are several electric cars with a several hundred miles. I believe the Tesla has about a 300 mile range, and the Nissan Leaf about half that. I would love to have an ebike with a 30 mile range, with no pedaling, even if I had to ride it at 5-7 mph. In fact, the slower you go, the more time you get to enjoy riding. I had very little trouble transitioning from a mountain bike, which I rode fairly aggressively, to a cruiser, which I rode in a very leisurely manner.

Gerald, there is hope. When the motor is doing most of the work (high range) your legs can go along "for the ride" and actually get some beneficial blood flow going and stretching, etc.
When I strained my left hamsting a couple of years ago I couldn't have ridden normally for several weeks at least. Walking was painful and gimpy.
But the 2nd day I could get on my Ebike and using no muscle on that leg I went a 10 mile ride and when I got back the leg was MUCH looser and less painful than it was before. I kept doing that, with no load on that leg for a few days and I healed unbelievably fast and was back to normal riding in a week. It was amazing and I've seen others mention such benefits. Getting increased blood flow is almost always helpful. Your situation could be different of course if it's the movement of the joint and not muscular movement causing pain.
There are plenty of very large batteries RIGHT NOW that will take you 60-100 miles. I've seen 50 and 60ah batteries for skooters now, claiming 100+ mile range. That's bigger than bikes currently but they are coming. I've seen 20ah coming stock on some Ebike now.
You are actually very lucky to be at the right place and the right time for this technology. ;)
 

MLB

Well-Known Member
I do ride a scooter. a SYM HD200. But it is actually more like a small motorcycle, with a top speed of over 70 mph. A moped will not work where I live because they are not legal to ride in the bike lanes, and are to slow to ride in a traffic lane. There are those cheap Chinese 2 stroke engine kits, but they are pretty much junk, and while they are legal in the bike lanes, they are not legal on bike paths. They are also noisy. There is one particular bike path near my house that runs along a canal bank, and is over 20 miles long. I used to really enjoy evening rides along that path.

Both my knee and hip joints are in bad shape, and trying to pedal is extremely painful, in fact my doctor advised me not to do it, because it is likely to cause further damage.

As for the bitterness part, I did not mean for it to come across that way, but when you are 56 years old, and have ridden bikes all your life, and no longer can, it is a bit depressing. An ebike would not be exactly the same, but it would be close enough. It seems that there is simply no battery out there capable of the kind of range I need. This seems odd, as there as there are several electric cars with a several hundred miles. I believe the Tesla has about a 300 mile range, and the Nissan Leaf about half that. I would love to have an ebike with a 30 mile range, with no pedaling, even if I had to ride it at 5-7 mph. In fact, the slower you go, the more time you get to enjoy riding. I had very little trouble transitioning from a mountain bike, which I rode fairly aggressively, to a cruiser, which I rode in a very leisurely manner.


I dont' think 30miles at 5-7 mph would be a problem for many bikes would it?? That's very slow and very little power being used to maintain it. Unless climbing a lot, I think all 3 of mine would do that, and none are bigger than 14ah/
 

Alex M

Well-Known Member
Gerald, you can't compare 300 miles range of Tesla to 30 miles of e-bike. Tesla battery is 150 times bigger than that of e-bike. If it wasn't for monstrous weight of a car, its range would've been 4,500 miles!

Many e-cars have smaller battery than Tesla and accordingly smaller range, around 100 miles.

Check e-bikes that offer battery upgrade to bigger size, around 15-18 AH. I believe you could squeeze up to 40-50 miles out of this in throttle mode (i.e. no pedaling). Depends on your weight, speed and terrain. Here is one with a big battery, 45 miles in throttle: https://electricbikereview.com/aerobic-cruiser/innovation/ . I understand it has no pedal-assist, you either human-power it or relax and use a throttle. Pretty heavy, I wouldn't want to have to pedal this one :)
 
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Ian

Member
It seems that there is simply no battery out there capable of the kind of range I need. ... I would love to have an ebike with a 30 mile range, with no pedaling, even if I had to ride it at 5-7 mph. In fact, the slower you go, the more time you get to enjoy riding. I had very little trouble transitioning from a mountain bike, which I rode fairly aggressively, to a cruiser, which I rode in a very leisurely manner.

I would recommend a Juiced Bikes ODK U500 with the 32Ah battery. I have it and can do a 44 mile round trip commute on one charge at 17 mph average with lots of stops and end up with battery to spare. I am pedaling most of the time, but I could do the whole thing without pedaling if I wanted to (although I go on shared trails so I always pedal to blend in a bit better). You can go about 18-20 mph without pedaling and range is said to be up to 80 miles of fast riding.