EBike Quick Charge: Ultra-fast charging battery to substitute for Specialized SL Extender battery? Logarithmic Charging Strategy.

FlatSix911

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
Silicon Valley
Anyway how off topic is this thread about quick chargers? I need to recharge the bikes from either a hundred app hour battery in my van or a pair on solar panels on the roof or the occasional laundry or campground with 110 service.
Thinking it would be ok to recharge bikes overnight with an inverter from the 12 volt system, but fast charging is a big issue when shore power is available.

Back on topic... I have a 750W inverter connected to my 12-volt battery that is continuously recharged from my 100KW main traction battery.

Plenty of power to recharge a lot of EBikes... or power my critical loads during a home power outage. :)

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Sierratim

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
Nevada City, CA & Paradise Valley, AZ
Back on topic... I have a 750W inverter connected to my 12-volt battery that is continuously recharged from my 100KW main traction battery.

Plenty of power to recharge a lot of EBikes... or power my critical loads during a home power outage. :)

View attachment 58185 View attachment 58186
Those of us living in the 'sticks' just have 'whole house' generators connected to our 250gal popane tanks for those pesky utility outages, and random tree falls, lightning strikes, snow loads, etc...🤣
 

FlatSix911

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
Silicon Valley
Those of us living in the 'sticks' just have 'whole house' generators connected to our 250gal propane tanks for those pesky utility outages, and random tree falls, lightning strikes, snow loads, etc...🤣

Sounds Perfect for unplanned outages... welcome to Pacific Gas & Electric country! ;)
 
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Art Deco

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
Selinsgrove Pennsylvania
Back on topic... I have a 750W inverter connected to my 12-volt battery that is continuously recharged from my 100KW main traction battery.

Plenty of power to recharge a lot of EBikes... or power my critical loads during a home power outage. :)

View attachment 58185 View attachment 58186
Yeah. It seems like it shouldn't take much to run a pair of chargers, even if I don't have a "main traction" battery, I have deep cycle style house and starter batteries that should be fine for a 2 to 5 amp draw for several hours
 

BikeMike

Active Member
Anyway how off topic is this thread about quick chargers? I need to recharge the bikes from either a hundred app hour battery in my van or a pair on solar panels on the roof or the occasional laundry or campground with 110 service.
Directly on topic. Do you know of a thread function to subordinate discussions? This 3C discussion structure has two joined, subordinate topics, i.e., eBike battery and car electrical system to support eBike charging.

I am designing a 3C system for camper van around an eBike recharging system. Think Ford for 3C vans. Ultra-fast charging (3C) recharging time is essential to both bike and camper. Please note the J1772 connector has 10 hour recharge time at 1C. Both the eBike and camper are part of the same system. I am thinking from Tour Divide perspective in CO, at least. Both the eBike and camper need to be functional at high altitude. I want to ride over 100 miles per day. More maps.

I have been thinking about this for years. Being trapped due to Covid19 has forced a feasibility study. I might desperately need to escape to NM this fall or winter during flu season. March and April were bad enough in Denver.

I reached a conclusion about the Specialized Creo SL Evo Extender lacking 3C batterypack. The saving grace is the bike does not require continuous power. That qualifies the Creo as a true hybrid vehicle.

Bike routes across America that I would like to visit by car. The Tour Divide trail is closest to Denver.

Routes_network-map_updated-2020.jpg


1594203290263-jpeg.58202




Modular electrical system a la Egoe style (https://uncrate.com/nestbox-camper-module/ ). Zip tie plastic milk cartons, stacked upon each other.
  1. Camper designed around electrical system.
    1. MB diesel Sprinter, 4WD (suspect too high for parking entrance)
    2. Toyota Sienna AWD
      1. Appliances and water accessed from rear door that provides shelter
  2. Electrical system dictates camper livability. Minimal requirements:
    1. Subfloor with radiant heater
    2. Outlets to power electric blanket and appliances
    3. Lighting in ceiling or walls
    4. Water heater
    5. Recharge eBike battery
      1. Specialized Creo SL Evo does not require continuous power.
    6. Small electric refrigerator
    7. Clean chain at least once per week with air compressor.
  3. J1772 outlets(two to four) to charge camper battery from EV stations in 30 minutes
    1. 720 aH @ 12v = 60w. 72A ( J1775 80A max), 1C = 10H full charge time. 3C = 2 hours.
    2. Accessible from rear door to avoid EV station conflict
  4. How much sailing hardware is appropriate?
  5. What can I learn from Ford projects?
  • Fast charging battery system:
    • 540W of solar panels (3)
    • 3500W Pure Sin Wave Inverter (2.5 hours of driving to recharge battery)
    • 5kW diesel heater
    • eBike (2' x 6' x 3.5' space)
    • Lighting
    • Small induction stove
    • Small Microwave
    • Refrigerator same dimensions as stove
    • Water heater for shower, food prep, constant covid19 hand washing.
    • Sound system
    • Internet Connection
    • Heating, Cooling and Ventilation
      • Tradeoff between roof exhaust fan and solar panels
      • Carbon monoxide detector
 

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Art Deco

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
Selinsgrove Pennsylvania
Directly on topic. I am designing a 3C system for camper van around an eBike recharging system. Ultra-fast charging (3C) recharging time is essential to both bike and camper. Please note the J1772 connector has 10 hour recharge time at 1C. Both the eBike and camper are part of the same system. I am thinking from Tour Divide perspective in CO, at least. Both the eBike and camper need to be functional at high altitude. I want to ride over 100 miles per day. More maps.

After I think through the combined requirements, I will post the car electrical system part to another post, or start a new one. Right now, I need to keep both together, because I have not thought through the details. I have a general, but unspecified plan. I have been thinking about this for years. Being trapped due to Covid19 has forced a feasibility study. I might desperately need to escape to NM this fall or winter during flu season. March and April were bad enough in Denver.

I reached a conclusion about the Specialized Creo SL Evo Extender lacking 3C batterypack. The saving grace is the bike does require continuous power. That qualifies the Creo as a true hybrid vehicle.

Routes_network-map_updated-2020.jpg


1594203290263-jpeg.58202




Modular electrical system a la Egoe style (https://uncrate.com/nestbox-camper-module/ ).
  1. Camper designed around electrical system.
    1. MB diesel Sprinter, 4WD (suspect too high for parking entrance)
    2. Toyota Sienna AWD
  2. Electrical system dictates camper livability. Minimal requirements:
    1. Subfloor with radiant heater
    2. Outlets to power electric blanket and appliances
    3. Lighting in ceiling or walls
    4. Water heater
    5. Recharge eBike battery
      1. Specialized Creo SL Evo does not require continuous power.
    6. Small electric refrigerator
  3. A J1772 outlet to charge camper battery from EV stations
    1. 720 aH @ 12v = 60w. 72A ( J1775 80A max), 1C = 10H full charge time. 3C = 2 hours.
  4. How much sailing hardware is appropriate?
  • Fast charging battery system:
    • 540W of solar panels (3)
    • 3500W Pure Sin Wave Inverter (2.5 hours of driving to recharge battery)
    • 5kW diesel heater
    • eBike (2' x 6' space)
    • Lighting
    • Small induction stove
    • Small Microwave
    • Refrigerator same dimensions as stove
    • Water heater for shower
    • Sound system
    • Internet Connection
    • Heating, Cooling and Ventilation
      • Tradeoff between roof exhaust fan and solar panels
      • Carbon monoxide detector
Actually the comment about off topic was a joke. Very few threads on EBR stay on topic for more than half a dozen posts. Looking at your plans, I have the high top MB sprinter van converted to a camper by Winnebago before things like inverters and lithium batteries were a thing. Trying to figure out what mods I need to support two ebikes, and charging is an issue.
 

BikeMike

Active Member
Actually the comment about off topic was a joke. Very few threads on EBR stay on topic for more than half a dozen posts. Looking at your plans, I have the high top MB sprinter van converted to a camper by Winnebago before things like inverters and lithium batteries were a thing. Trying to figure out what mods I need to support two ebikes, and charging is an issue.
I think 3C is essential. Taking advantage of EV car stations with J1772 outlet(s) allows scalability. You might consider multiple J1772 outlets.

Personally, i am shooting for a 30 minute recharge delay. The electrical system probably needs to be accessible from rear door. Side door might conflict with cords. Some EV stations assume charging from front end.
 
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Art Deco

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
Selinsgrove Pennsylvania
Back on topic... I have a 750W inverter connected to my 12-volt battery that is continuously recharged from my 100KW main traction battery.

Plenty of power to recharge a lot of EBikes... or power my critical loads during a home power outage. :)

View attachment 58185 View attachment 58186
Do you need a pure sine wave inverter or just any inverter? Probably doesn't matter unless it's a much bigger inverter, where the price jumps quickly for the better inverters.
 

BikeMike

Active Member
Do you need a pure sine wave inverter or just any inverter? Probably doesn't matter unless it's a much bigger inverter, where the price jumps quickly for the better inverters.
I am just leaving notes to myself. I haven't investigated inverters, yet. I would appreciate your recommendations. I know very little about this subject. I am relying on theoretical knowledge. I have no practical experience. I prefer to err on the side of over, rather than, under specifying. I intend to turn the specifications over to someone to build the car electrical system for me.
 
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Art Deco

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
Selinsgrove Pennsylvania
Directly on topic. Do you know of a thread function to subordinate discussions? This 3C discussion structure has two joined, subordinate topics, i.e., eBike battery and car electrical system to support eBike charging.

I am designing a 3C system for camper van around an eBike recharging system. Think Ford for 3C vans. Ultra-fast charging (3C) recharging time is essential to both bike and camper. Please note the J1772 connector has 10 hour recharge time at 1C. Both the eBike and camper are part of the same system. I am thinking from Tour Divide perspective in CO, at least. Both the eBike and camper need to be functional at high altitude. I want to ride over 100 miles per day. More maps.

I have been thinking about this for years. Being trapped due to Covid19 has forced a feasibility study. I might desperately need to escape to NM this fall or winter during flu season. March and April were bad enough in Denver.

I reached a conclusion about the Specialized Creo SL Evo Extender lacking 3C batterypack. The saving grace is the bike does not require continuous power. That qualifies the Creo as a true hybrid vehicle.

Routes_network-map_updated-2020.jpg


1594203290263-jpeg.58202




Modular electrical system a la Egoe style (https://uncrate.com/nestbox-camper-module/ ). Zip tie plastic milk cartons, stacked upon each other.
  1. Camper designed around electrical system.
    1. MB diesel Sprinter, 4WD (suspect too high for parking entrance)
    2. Toyota Sienna AWD
      1. Appliances and water accessed from rear door that provides shelter
  2. Electrical system dictates camper livability. Minimal requirements:
    1. Subfloor with radiant heater
    2. Outlets to power electric blanket and appliances
    3. Lighting in ceiling or walls
    4. Water heater
    5. Recharge eBike battery
      1. Specialized Creo SL Evo does not require continuous power.
    6. Small electric refrigerator
  3. J1772 outlets(two to four) to charge camper battery from EV stations in 30 minutes
    1. 720 aH @ 12v = 60w. 72A ( J1775 80A max), 1C = 10H full charge time. 3C = 2 hours.
    2. Accessible from rear door to avoid EV station conflict
  4. How much sailing hardware is appropriate?
  5. What can I learn from Ford projects?
  • Fast charging battery system:
    • 540W of solar panels (3)
    • 3500W Pure Sin Wave Inverter (2.5 hours of driving to recharge battery)
    • 5kW diesel heater
    • eBike (2' x 6' x 3.5' space)
    • Lighting
    • Small induction stove
    • Small Microwave
    • Refrigerator same dimensions as stove
    • Water heater for shower, food prep, constant covid19 hand washing.
    • Sound system
    • Internet Connection
    • Heating, Cooling and Ventilation
      • Tradeoff between roof exhaust fan and solar panels
      • Carbon monoxide detector
There are some small problems with solar panels both roof mounted (if parked in shade to avoid heat) or suitcase style folders that can be set out in the sun (theft).
 

Art Deco

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
Selinsgrove Pennsylvania
Any I am just leaving notes to myself. I haven't investigated inverters, yet. I would appreciate your recommendations. I know very little about this subject. I am relying on theoretical knowledge. I have no practical experience.
I have little practical experience, but I have a couple dozen panels on my roof and two huge inverters in my garage. But they don't have to move, nor are they subject to theft. I am investigating inverters now, was originally going to use a marine dc to dc charger, but that won't work with the Specialized proprietary battery and charger.
 

BikeMike

Active Member
I have little practical experience, but I have a couple dozen panels on my roof and two huge inverters in my garage. But they don't have to move, nor are they subject to theft. I am investigating inverters now, was originally going to use a marine dc to dc charger, but that won't work with the Specialized proprietary battery and charger.
I am assuming marine products are appropriate, but don't really know. The assumption is based on similar size constraints between boat and car. I have spent too much money at West Marine, though.
 

BikeMike

Active Member
I have little practical experience, but I have a couple dozen panels on my roof and two huge inverters in my garage. But they don't have to move, nor are they subject to theft. I am investigating inverters now, was originally going to use a marine dc to dc charger, but that won't work with the Specialized proprietary battery and charger.
My philosophy is modular. I would like to put components in plastic milk cartons and zip tie together. I haven't done something like this before. I expect to make mistakes.

For example, i will simply use my camping air matress for a bed. I will not build a bed frame. I do need a frame or some structure for radient heaters.
 

Art Deco

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
Selinsgrove Pennsylvania
I am assuming marine products are appropriate, but don't really know. The assumption is based on similar size constraints between boat and car. I have spent too much money at West Marine, though.
Marine products are fine (but spendy), the issue is with the specialized battery that won't charge from a 3rd party charger, hence the need to convert to 110 ac to run a charger that converts the electric back to 42 volts dc.
 

BikeMike

Active Member
Marine products are fine (but spendy), the issue is with the specialized battery that won't charge from a 3rd party charger, hence the need to convert to 110 ac to run a charger that converts the electric back to 42 volts dc.
I am generally skeptical about any vendor tie-ins, especially electronics. I love my Specialized Diverge. The Creo is derived from Diverge geometry.

I guess i need one or more milk crate(s) to function as a giant junction box. Solar controller, inverter, conventional 110V outlets, etc....

I plan to build the electrical system before buying the car. After i know how many milk cartons, i will have a better idea for space requirements.
 
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Art Deco

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
Selinsgrove Pennsylvania
I am generally skeptical about any vendor tie-ins. I love my Specialized Diverge. The Creo is derived from Diverge. Electronics are an entirely different matter.

I guess i need to one milk crate to function as a giant junction box. Solar controller, inverter, conventional 110V outlets, etc....
If you get tired of milk crates there are inverter/charger/power centers that are designed for camper conversions and mount to an inside wall or in a cabinet with proper cooling fans for air flow. And they are rugged enough to stand up to vibrations from highway speeds.
 

BikeMike

Active Member
If you get tired of milk crates there are inverter/charger/power centers that are designed for camper conversions and mount to an inside wall or in a cabinet with proper cooling fans for air flow. And they are rugged enough to stand up to vibrations from highway speeds.
Thanks. I prefer to start with special purpose items, because I don't know what i am doing.

Where is the best position for the cabinet? I assume the cabinet might need to be located near the rear door?

Access to quick release water couplings is important. Switch between water spout, hose and shower. I clean and lube my chain at least once per week, usually every day or two, with a 2A air compressor. I plan to use my bike work stand to hold the shower head.

The water heater and tank will need to be located close to a door. Something like this:

Szybkozlacza-do-wody-mosiadz.jpg


I like the Egoe concept of drawers pulling out from the back of the car for cooking. The raised rear door provides shelter.

I don't need to be inside the car all the time. An external, foldable table is one example. I don't require an internal table, for example. Trial and error will determine the final outcome.
 
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BikeMike

Active Member
I like this LG Unu scooter 1.7kW battery form factor to power my car electric system.


IMG_0921.JPG


I like German technolog, but i cannot find charger details. Looks like a XLR plug. Literature says can charge at EV station. I suppose EV stations accept XLR plugs?

Doesn't seem very impressive? XLR is good for balanced stereo.


Rechargeable devices exist that use three-pin XLR connectors. These can be found on electric powered mobility wheelchairs and scooters. The connectors carry from 2 to 10 amps at 24 volts.



I like the concept of modular kWh batteries. These must be 3C, or they will take too long to charge. Nope.

about 7 hours

Due to a collaboration with LG the unu has access to the latest battery technologies so that the quality of the batteries can be guaranteed. The accu can be charged at any regular power outlet with a supplied charger. The charge time is about 5 hours when the battery is completely empty.

Two 1.7 kWh batteries increase the scooter's range to 100 kilometres and the mounting of the hub motor in the rear single-sided swingarm frees up space for a larger storage compartment under the seat.

The Unu scooter will begin to ship in spring 2020. It will join other electric scooters already on the market, including an electric version of the iconic Vespa, and a Taiwanese "Smartscooter"featuring power cells that can be swapped out at battery vending machines.


Thanks to a sophisticated Bosch engine, battery pack, and regenerative braking technology, the Unu Electric Scooter is one of the cleanest ways to move around your city. The first scooter to deliver top speed — in this case, about 28 mph — regardless of charge level, it can be driven using a regular driver's license, and has a range of over 30 miles. The battery is easily removable, so you can take it out and charge it at a regular outlet, there's a slot for a second battery if you'd like to double your range, and a choice of three engines is available, depending on how fast you want to accelerate. In keeping with its no-maintenance philosophy, it comes in a box that's shipped right to your doorstep, so all you need to do is attach a license plate and get moving.
 
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FlatSix911

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
Silicon Valley
Do you need a pure sine wave inverter or just any inverter?

Probably doesn't matter unless it's a much bigger inverter, where the price jumps quickly for the better inverters.

A pure sine wave inverter is better, but not required for EBike charging.;)