Ebikes….Cheating?

GenXrider

Well-Known Member
There are Three Classes of electric bikes. Only the even numbered ones have throttles. The ones that are odd numbered do not have throttles. The ones that are less than three have a maximum speed of 20Mph. The ones that are more than two, but not including two, can go 28Mph. I know it is confusing.
It's pretty straight forward. I can assure that my bike is a class 3, provides assistance to 28 mph, and has a throttle. See below.

This is the info for my bike:

1631056780953.png


Class 3 designation emblem on head tube:

1631057189885.png


Picture of throttle:

1631057342712.png


Enjoy! :D
 

RunForTheHills

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
It's pretty straight forward. I can assure that my bike is a class 3, provides assistance to 28 mph, and has a throttle. See below.

This is the info for my bike:

View attachment 99278

Class 3 designation emblem on head tube:

View attachment 99280

Picture of throttle:

View attachment 99282

Enjoy! :D
There is no doubt that your bike has a throttle, but don't believe the sticker. It isn't compliant with the definition of a class 3 ebike in states that have adopted those classes. You could always remove the throttle though to be compliant.
 

GenXrider

Well-Known Member
There is no doubt that your bike has a throttle, but don't believe the sticker. It isn't compliant with the definition of a class 3 ebike in states that have adopted those classes. You could always remove the throttle though to be compliant.
Some states have relaxed restrictions. It's mentioned on this website:

But, on the owners' FB group, I've never heard of anyone removing the throttle, even the many California riders. No one has ever reported an issue riding the Class 3 bike on any trails or roads, either. Definitely not something I'm concerned about.

One thing interesting is that there's a menu item in the configuration that the throttle speed limit can be set anywhere from 11 mph up to 28 mph. Mine came defaulted to 20. I barely use it, just to get rolling sometimes, so that never concerned me.
 

PedalUma

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
It says "20Mph with throttle," that would be Class 2 but that is on the 750W, 60Nm and not on the one with the badge that says 500W.
1631060275738.png
1631060297664.png
 

Stefan Mikes

Well-Known Member
Region
Europe
City
Brwinów (PL)
It's pretty straight forward. I can assure that my bike is a class 3, provides assistance to 28 mph, and has a throttle. See below.

This is the info for my bike:

View attachment 99278

Class 3 designation emblem on head tube:

View attachment 99280

Picture of throttle:

View attachment 99282

Enjoy! :D
It is illegal. Your sticker will not help it. (Of course, everybody says "it cannot be enforced").
The fact you can change the maximum speed is against the whole Class concept.
 

mjeds

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
I do live here.
Throttles are only allowed here for S-Pedelecs that are treated as mopeds, with all consequences related to a moped. Funny to think about it, I have to find yet an S-Pedelec with EU Certificate of Compliance that would be equipped with a throttle. All other e-bikes limited to 25 km/h and with 250 W (nominal) motor are just bikes in Europe (and must be solely pedalled: the EU law is specific on that).


Agreed. Class 2 is the only one that is allowed a throttle by the Federal and California laws. I wonder what is hard to understand in this picture.

View attachment 99259
Picture courtesy of Juiced Bikes.

to make matters more convoluted.

all my bikes have CLASS-2 stickers on them, they all have PAS and Throttle, and they all Throttle to 28mph, and with PAS I can go as fast as I want, PAS cuts out at 28mph, but I've had my bikes up to 34mph pedaling my ass off on flats (do this every day for 4 miles on L.A. streets with a speed limit of 35-40mph, and 42mph going down a 12% grade for 2.5 miles.

so they should be CLASS-3 as they can do 28mph, but they have a throttle, so WTF?

doesn't matter to me, I have them all registered with the CA DMV as mopeds in accordance with the CA e-bike laws, and they are all insured, and I never go faster than 20mph on bike paths with other cyclists. only on the city streets when keeping pace with traffic.
 

Stefan Mikes

Well-Known Member
Region
Europe
City
Brwinów (PL)
I have them all registered with the CA DMV as mopeds in accordance with the CA e-bike laws, and they are all insured, and I never go faster than 20mph on bike paths with other cyclists. only on the city streets when keeping pace with traffic.
That's OK.
 

GenXrider

Well-Known Member
It says "20Mph with throttle," that would be Class 2 but that is on the 750W, 60Nm and not on the one with the badge that says 500W.
View attachment 99285View attachment 99286
No, it says "28 mph pedal assist with 20 mph throttle". The "28 mph" cannot be ignored. So, 28 mph would not be class 2. It also states on the website product page specifically that it's class 3, and the emblem on the bike shows class 3. And it's the same bike. Again, I have the bike. On the product page, if you scroll down below where it says 750 watts, it says 500 watts nominal. But in actual use, it will peak at ~1000 watts (power meter maxes out at 999 watts). And the throttle speed can be stepped up to 28 mph through the menu, so the throttle is not really limited to 20 mph, it just defaults to that as delivered. And with a 10 second advanced setting change, you can even workaround/remove any class speed restrictions with the side effect of the speedometer and odometer being way off. I haven't made that change as I'm not interested in faster assisted speeds and want my speedometer / odometer to be accurate.
 
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GenXrider

Well-Known Member
It is illegal. Your sticker will not help it. (Of course, everybody says "it cannot be enforced").
The fact you can change the maximum speed is against the whole Class concept.
LOL Some states have relaxed restrictions, but I haven't seen anyone from any state, including CA, who is concerned about it. They could always remove the throttle easily enough if they were worried about it, and they would still get pedal assist to 28 mph (or faster using advanced menu change workaround). For that matter, I haven't even heard anyone in the group state they were kicked off any trails or otherwise forbidden to ride on them with these class 3 throttle-equipped e-bikes.
 

GenXrider

Well-Known Member
doesn't matter to me, I have them all registered with the CA DMV as mopeds in accordance with the CA e-bike laws, and they are all insured, and I never go faster than 20mph on bike paths with other cyclists. only on the city streets when keeping pace with traffic.
I've never heard of anyone registering an e-bike with the DMV in CA. I don't register or insure mine. I don't live in CA, but there are a number of CA residents with class 3 throttle-equipped bikes like mine in the FB group. I have had it up to over 36 mph using muscular pedal power after the PAS cut out at 28 mph.
 

RunForTheHills

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
Well, a bike with motor assist to 28mph and a throttle is neither a class 2 or class 3 ebike. How does the lack of enforcement make it a class 3 ebike? I don't understand that argument. Yes, you can easily make it compliant if it ever is enforced, but you can't really state that it is a class 3 ebike as it is currently configured.
 

GenXrider

Well-Known Member
This is your problem, not mine.
Just don't say you can have a Class 3 on one day, and Class 2 on another.
I'm not from CA or Europe, so it's not a problem for me. lol It's literally zero concern to me.

You should re-read my posts. I never stated mine was class 2. I have stated it was class 3 and provided references to that in my previous posts.
 

GenXrider

Well-Known Member
Well, a bike with motor assist to 28mph and a throttle is neither a class 2 or class 3 ebike. How does the lack of enforcement make it a class 3 ebike? I don't understand that argument. Yes, you can easily make it compliant if it ever is enforced, but you can't really state that it is a class 3 ebike as it is currently configured.
It's not necessarily a matter of "enforcement" but can be a difference in the laws in states / municipalities. For example:

"New York will define Class 3 bikes as those with a throttle-activated motor (and allowed only in New York City) with a maximum speed of 25 mph before turning off." Reference:

 

RunForTheHills

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
It's not necessarily a matter of "enforcement" but can be a difference in the laws in states / municipalities. For example:

"New York will define Class 3 bikes as those with a throttle-activated motor (and allowed only in New York City) with a maximum speed of 25 mph before turning off." Reference:

Fascinating. However, even in NYC, your 28mph ebike wouldn't be a class 3 as it is currently configured.
 

Drbike

Member
Sometimes you might get surprised from whom you can hear the "cheater!" insult. On my vacations in 2020, I was riding an e-MTB over (how I name it) West Pomeranian "wilderness" in Poland. At some point, I could see a group of kayakers standing at a riverbank. Upon seeing me riding, one of them shouted "cheater!" at me. Cheater in what sense? Did I have an electric motor kayak with me?!
If the kayaker was going down river that would be cheating vs. going up river!
 

6zfshdb

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
Northeast Pennsylvania
I had a funny encounter with a very fit 30 something young woman on the GAP trail yesterday. I was behind but slowly overtaking her as we rode up a long fairly steep section. When I got abreast of the winded young woman, she did a double take at this old duffer on a heavily laden bike that was actually passing on an uphill grade! "That better be an e-bike or I'm hanging it up!" She said. "Relax." I replied with a laugh. "Yes, it's an e-bike and before you say it, yes, I guess that makes me a cheater." I could see her smiling in my mirror as I pulled away up the grade.

Thinking back, I actually called myself a cheater! :)
 

Stefan Mikes

Well-Known Member
Region
Europe
City
Brwinów (PL)
I had a funny encounter with a very fit 30 something young woman on the GAP trail yesterday. I was behind but slowly overtaking her as we rode up a long fairly steep section. When I got abreast of the winded young woman, she did a double take at this old duffer on a heavily laden bike that was actually passing on an uphill grade! "That better be an e-bike or I'm hanging it up!" She said. "Relax." I replied with a laugh. "Yes, it's an e-bike and before you say it, yes, I guess that makes me a cheater." I could see her smiling in my mirror as I pulled away up the grade.

Thinking back, I actually called myself a cheater! :)
Of three roadies I overtook yesterday, the first expressed an awe related to my e-bike, the other was nothing to mention but I wanted that easy with the third one. So I merrily shouted "let's race!" to the man, and he joyfully accepted the challenge :) I was faster up an overpass but let him take the lead downhill :) On the other hand, I would stand no chance with a competing roadie!
 

BioWheel

Active Member
Region
USA
I had a funny encounter with a very fit 30 something young woman on the GAP trail yesterday. I was behind but slowly overtaking her as we rode up a long fairly steep section. When I got abreast of the winded young woman, she did a double take at this old duffer on a heavily laden bike that was actually passing on an uphill grade! "That better be an e-bike or I'm hanging it up!" She said. "Relax." I replied with a laugh. "Yes, it's an e-bike and before you say it, yes, I guess that makes me a cheater." I could see her smiling in my mirror as I pulled away up the grade.

Thinking back, I actually called myself a cheater! :)
So you cheated on the trail with a fit women? Abreast, you say? Good for you. 😝😆