Explain How The Future Traction Control Will Work

Ebiker33

Active Member
So I am watching this video of another very powerful Ebike climbing rocky 36% grade hill, different motor not as powerful as the X1 ultra, but still 120nm(The TQ)
And he wasn't having problems with power climbing the hill, but wheel slippage he had 3" MTB wheels and he was still losing traction because of how steep it was.
So this future option interests me, and if it really works would be a total game changer for steep hill climbing.


Feature Road map
Support for CAN version of Bafang Ultra
Traction Control
Mobile app support
BLE smart health accessory support
 
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pushkar

Well-Known Member
Currently traction control / ABS or any number of bicycle related items fall in the "blockchain / AI" realm of stuff. They are great buzz words but so far have little to no practical use. As an example for ABS here,


You will notice that the ABS enabled bike has a suspension, and "non ABS" has rigid fork !! Magical!


Traction control for bicycles is also a function of weight distribution, and geometry, and tire spec more than the motor trying to do something.

I think today's controllers (including the one we put in our bikes) have reasonable processing ability to support ABS / traction control. However at the moment IMO this is a case of a solution looking for a problem. There are significant other issues everyone needs to solve before ABS becomes a big enough factor for motors.

Here is my wishlist if anyone is wondering

1. Standard communication protocol. The CAN that Bosch works with is not the "CAN" that other vendors and ecosystem people use. Further, Bafang Ultra is UART, batteries are UART / CAN depending on which system you choose.. it is a pain to get basic data being reported. Why is it SOOOO hard to get "analytics from the motor " ? Well.. because the GPS and cadence and torque sensor vendors are using their own home brewed stuff. Even though everyone uses "CAN" , no one actually does.

2. Standard connectors - Bafang light connector is different from Bosch, which is different from Shimano ... just leave those unterminated if you don't know or want quicker adoption.

3. Better IP rating on motors.

4. Easier end user serviceability of motors. Everyone should definitely learn from bafang - they make "robust" (aka heavy, sometimes non -elegant) but definitely easy to service stuff. The most widely reported issue with Bafang is a gear clutch that any reasonable handyman can swap in 45 minutes. Really... it is astonishing how easy it is. I remember IC engines on Vespa scooters from 1990s... you could get to the major parts and service them very quickly. Now everyone is trying become the next apple and provide integrated stuff.

5. Fewer cables - I dont know how we can accomplish this but man...do i wish all bikes looked like they do on renders ! No controller wires.. hidden light cables etc... totally wireless! :) May be a better / thoughtful way to hide these. Even with dedicated downtubes, it becomes hard to doit when you have 8-9 cables being managed through it.

6. Be on forums like EBR and ES and support riders. i just saw that some bosch people just answered one end-user question. Why is that a big deal? It should be SOP! It is 2020 ... soon to be 2021.

7. We need better documentation. We need public information on motor performance. Why is it that there not a single official document on torque curves other than what GRIN has, or what we just published for Archon X1 (which could be better of course, but it is a start)? What is there to hide ? Cameras get reviewed publicly- and manufacturer provides the specs.. why are motor manufacturers different? If you have a good product, flaunt it!

/ rant.

Edit- added more points. Sorry to hijack the discussion. I accidentally shorted a brand new controller last night since I didnt ground myself.. so i am mad. I need a little more coffee to boot up.
 
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pushkar

Well-Known Member
Traction Control
We actually have the 'processor' for auto cutoff. We dont have the sensors :(

In reality - we can say that we have it - but is it truly useful right now ? Probably not.

It is a roadmap item. We will re-calibrate the roadmap by end of the year. If Magura or Hayes dont have any available sensors, I expect this to drop off the list (basically brake manufacturers have to support it).

On a scale of reality <------> can be achieved, this is firmly in the territory of "blockchain/ AI" . 😂 😂
 

Ebiker33

Active Member
We actually have the 'processor' for auto cutoff. We dont have the sensors :(

In reality - we can say that we have it - but is it truly useful right now ? Probably not.

It is a roadmap item. We will re-calibrate the roadmap by end of the year. If Magura or Hayes dont have any available sensors, I expect this to drop off the list (basically brake manufacturers have to support it).

On a scale of reality <------> can be achieved, this is firmly in the territory of "blockchain/ AI" . 😂 😂
Then tell Magura to get on it, tell them they are lagging behind potential tech and to accelerate their R & D;)
 

Bluzrif

New Member
Lots of great companies started out on a cocktail napkin... Your enthusiasm is infectious. Thanks for your part in answering one of mankind's biggest questions...

BBQ grill or Bike ... which one will I have to replace first ?! Proud to be onboard for this "ride"
 

vincent

Well-Known Member
i like your wishlist and hope lots of this stuff is implemented in the next 5-10 years
keeping my fingers crossed :)