Fazua in the USA

ghukins

Member
I have a Trek Domane+ which I love but did notice today that my dealer has the new Cube Agree with the Fazua motor on the floor. It's the top of the line model for 10K but looked very nice. I for one typically ride my Domane+ at 30-60% assist (and turned off on the flats) but would not give up the ability to move at 28 mph through city streets on my way home after a long climb up the mountain--it's too much fun!
The 2020 Trek Domane+ bikes will come in two very different flavors. One with a Bosch motor good for 28mph and one with the Fazua motor, good for 20mph. The Fazua model looks a lot more streamlined but has less range and less top end. Things are heating up in the e-bike wars! Mid-drives, Ebikemotion or Fazua???!!!!
 

Deacon Blues

Well-Known Member
I suspect Canadians will be waiting a lot longer than that to get Fazua powered bikes in Canada. Heck, we're still waiting for E-motion powered bikes.
 

MikeDee

Active Member
I just spoke with Glory Cycles in Greenville, SC USA, they indicated that the Gain water bottle external battery is ready to be released at a list price of $1,000 - No thanks to that!
Just ordered one from Mike's Bikes. Cost me $600 and they expect delivery in a couple of weeks.
 

LimboJim

Well-Known Member
Hey folks,

Just got an update directly from Fazua.

Expect to see their drives in bikes hitting the US shores in late autumn 2019.
 

thornton_tarr

New Member
To ghukins & Mike Dee: You both seem to have actual rides/experience with bikes using the EBikeMotion X35 or the Fazua Evation system. All technical comments made in your posts are both wide ranging and seem relevant. However, neither of you discuss the power application protocol used. I think (based on one ride on Wilier Cento1 Hybrid ) that the EBikeMotion system adds a fixed power output at each level to which you add your own power output. The Fazua power protocol is unclear. Do either of you have any comments regarding the power application protocol?

However, a critical issue to estimate is the mechanical/electrical fficiencies of each of these ebike systems. I suspect that given that the EBikeMotion motor is not a direct drive (includes a planetary gear system) it has mechanical losses greater than 10%. However, EBikeMotion's parent company makes very efficient power controllers (exceeding 93% efficiency) for the automobile applications so I suspect that EBikeMotion overall efficiency (mechanical and electrical) is better than Fazua Evation. I base this comment on the mechanical gearing employed by Fazua which is suspect is "lossier" than the EBikeMotion mechanical mechanical gearing.

Regarding range specifications, it is possible to estimate energy (range) required in advance given "your" performance and the details of a specific ride.

Regarding the USA max speed of 28MPH or 45 KPH, I agree that whether for club riding or bike trail/path riding that speed to completely unsafe. On a shared pathway - "the commons" with walkers, horses, children and dog walkers it seems prudent to reconsider that maximum speed.
 

MikeDee

Active Member
To ghukins & Mike Dee: You both seem to have actual rides/experience with bikes using the EBikeMotion X35 or the Fazua Evation system. All technical comments made in your posts are both wide ranging and seem relevant. However, neither of you discuss the power application protocol used. I think (based on one ride on Wilier Cento1 Hybrid ) that the EBikeMotion system adds a fixed power output at each level to which you add your own power output. The Fazua power protocol is unclear. Do either of you have any comments regarding the power application protocol?

However, a critical issue to estimate is the mechanical/electrical fficiencies of each of these ebike systems. I suspect that given that the EBikeMotion motor is not a direct drive (includes a planetary gear system) it has mechanical losses greater than 10%. However, EBikeMotion's parent company makes very efficient power controllers (exceeding 93% efficiency) for the automobile applications so I suspect that EBikeMotion overall efficiency (mechanical and electrical) is better than Fazua Evation. I base this comment on the mechanical gearing employed by Fazua which is suspect is "lossier" than the EBikeMotion mechanical mechanical gearing.

Regarding range specifications, it is possible to estimate energy (range) required in advance given "your" performance and the details of a specific ride.

Regarding the USA max speed of 28MPH or 45 KPH, I agree that whether for club riding or bike trail/path riding that speed to completely unsafe. On a shared pathway - "the commons" with walkers, horses, children and dog walkers it seems prudent to reconsider that maximum speed.
I could be wrong, but I think the ebikemotion system power profile varies dependent upon speed (I.e., there is a power curve built-in to the controller).

I read a review comparing the two bikes and the reviewer preferred the ebikemotion equipped bike. It said the ebikemotion bike had more power and climbed better. Unfortunately, that review is no longer available online. Maybe there was something wrong with the Fazua bike. I've never ridden a Fazua equipped bike nor a bottom bracket driven bike. I like that it leverages the bicycles gearing and the power curve can be matched to a cyclist's cadence so that peak output power can be applied over a wider speed range than a hub motor can.

In CA, where I live, Class 3 bikes aren't allowed on bike trails. However, unless there's enforcement, it's rather meaningless. I have seen zero enforcement where I live, but haven't seen a problem with speeding ebikes either. In fact, ebikes aren't supposed to be allowed on the major local bike trails where I live.

Edit: I think this was the article where the Ebikemotion bike performed better than the Fazua one: http://news.pulseroll.com/e-road-bike-motors-which-is-the-best-system-for-you/
 
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Jaxx

Well-Known Member
I could be wrong, but I think the ebikemotion system power profile varies dependent upon speed (I.e., there is a power curve built-in to the controller).

I read a review comparing the two bikes and the reviewer preferred the ebikemotion equipped bike. It said the ebikemotion bike had more power and climbed better. Unfortunately, that review is no longer available online. Maybe there was something wrong with the Fazua bike. I've never ridden a Fazua equipped bike nor a bottom bracket driven bike. I like that it leverages the bicycles gearing and the power curve can be matched to a cyclist's cadence so that peak output power can be applied over a wider speed range than a hub motor can.

In CA, where I live, Class 3 bikes aren't allowed on bike trails. However, unless there's enforcement, it's rather meaningless. I have seen zero enforcement where I live, but haven't seen a problem with speeding ebikes either. In fact, ebikes aren't supposed to be allowed on the major local bike trails where I live.
No ebikes on trails on Call Mike? Surly from what I read here in the UK Cal is one of the greenest and most concientious states? Somehow seems counter productive.
 

MikeDee

Active Member
The East Bay Regional Park District owns the major bike trails in the area. They've currently allowed Class 1 and 2 ebikes only on a limited portion of the trail system and banned them from the dirt trails in the regional parks. That doesn't keep people from riding ebikes on the trails though, as I've seldom seen a ranger on the trails.
 

thornton_tarr

New Member
I could be wrong, but I think the ebikemotion system power profile varies dependent upon speed (I.e., there is a power curve built-in to the controller).

I read a review comparing the two bikes and the reviewer preferred the ebikemotion equipped bike. It said the ebikemotion bike had more power and climbed better. Unfortunately, that review is no longer available online. Maybe there was something wrong with the Fazua bike. I've never ridden a Fazua equipped bike nor a bottom bracket driven bike. I like that it leverages the bicycles gearing and the power curve can be matched to a cyclist's cadence so that peak output power can be applied over a wider speed range than a hub motor can.

Mike: On the ride I took on the Wilier and EBikeMotion, I used the EBikeMotion and it showed a constant power application at each level. Maybe that was the display property and not a varied power. Actually, I would love to have the display identify what I provide AND what the motor system is applying. It didn't display what I was producing - sadly.

I understand from your reply that you don't know the power profiling of the Fazua Evation system.

AND - as I live in Canada where the URL identification is "CA", I though you were, too. However, reading your replies, I think you are from CAlifornia. Curious how you 'mericans have a limited sense of who reads this blog. ALL GOOD HERE.