First ride with the Archon X1 upgrade!

TomD

Well-Known Member
Pushkar, I'm a little confused on throttle. Are you saying that it's regulating based on amps? So a 48 volt battery is getting less than a 52 volt? I would think it would regulate based on watts so that it doesn't matter what voltage you are at.
 

Ebiker33

Well-Known Member
Pushkar, I'm a little confused on throttle. Are you saying that it's regulating based on amps? So a 48 volt battery is getting less than a 52 volt? I would think it would regulate based on watts so that it doesn't matter what voltage you are at.
A X V =W is a formula that works, but as you know it's an average voltage that decreases as the battery empties, 52V by there very nature get more, I don't think most Ebike manufactures are reducing their controllers amperage as they transition to the 52V that would be going backwards, but you are only picking up about a 100 watt gain on average anyways with a 25 amp controller in a 48 verses 52 example. But you go down to 15 amp controller and now your power really goes down even with the 52V your average would be 780W verses 1300W.
 

vincent

Well-Known Member
I totally understand about the warranty stuff and do not expect you to warranty something that I pushed past your recommended limits and it broke

would be happy to pay for it to be repaired if I broke it


I would like to have the full 1000W available on my throttle when I need it, hoping it can be set for that
 

TomD

Well-Known Member
A X V =W is a formula that works, but as you know it's an average voltage that decreases as the battery empties, 52V by there very nature get more, I don't think most Ebike manufactures are reducing their controllers amperage as they transition to the 52V that would be going backwards, but you are only picking up about a 100 watt gain on average anyways with a 25 amp controller in a 48 verses 52 example. But you go down to 15 amp controller and now your power really goes down even with the 52V your average would be 780W verses 1300W.
I don't know much about controllers but I would think they monitor voltage and feed the appropriate watts as opposed to assuming some constant voltage. For example the archon controller definitely monitors voltage and starts nannying output as voltage gets low. Of course it needs to make an assumption about minimum voltage but I don't see any reason why the controller can't regulate watts as opposed to amps.
 

reed scott

Well-Known Member
Okay, test ride number three. I'm having a hard time wiping the grin off my one week unshaven face despite getting stung by a bee in the lip and feeling like I just came out of the dentist office.

View attachment 59401

I am halfway through my ride and all I can say is I'm ready to plaster my helmet with a Watt Wagon's logo and MBGA (Making Bafang Great Again) visor. If you are on the fence about this controller just get your wallet out now and order this thing before the word gets out and Pushkar is inundated with business.

The experience is simply amazing. It now feels like the motor is an extension of the bike. The power blends in perfectly and seamlessly. After my brief ride yesterday I commented that I wasn't sure the torque sensing was up to par with euro spec controllers. After today's ride I think it is just as good if not better than anything I've ever ridden. I went up some very tricky switchbacks that were near impossible to ride with the stock controller and with the new controller I came close to making it all the way up. The only thing preventing me was I didn't want to push my riding skills.

Seriously, this controller does make Bafang great again. Bafang could never do their torque sensing motors justice but this controller does just that and puts it at the level of one of the very best motors out there.

As far as efficiency, I'll let my display do the talking. The first screenshot was leaving the house and the second is halfway through one of the longer rides I did with my stock controller. If I'm doing the math right I have used less than 25% battery.

View attachment 59402
View attachment 59404

Edit: made it home with what appears to be more than 50% battery. I'm simply blown away. The only other time I did the same ride I was struggling to get home with the battery dipping below 20%. Granted that was with a new battery that hadn't been cycled but I would venture to guess I'm getting at least 20% efficiency gain.

View attachment 59408

Tom, I gather you simply bought an Archon equipped motor for your CC prior to pulling your existing motor. This is most likely what I will be doing when my AM 1000 rebadged bike gets here. Nothing wrong with having an extra motor around. :) In my looking at Pushkar's site and the options available when purchasing an Archon/Ultra package I am confused about which package to get. Were you able to literally plug in all your CC existing wiring directly to the motor supplied by WattWagon without the need for adaptors or actually rewiring any of your CC components? Thanks in advance for any info you can supply.👍
 

dmark

Member
To save the IGH.
Excuse my interjection. Is it just to save the IGH? Is the Gates Carbon Drive also a factor?

The Optibike R15C has Rohloff IGH plus chain and is described as nominal 1650W and peak 2500W. I don't see anything about a reduction for throttle other than top speed (28 mph, 45 kph) according to the EBR review.

 

scrambler

Active Member
The belt is not the issue, but I think Pushkar is being cautious because of the Rohloff warranty.

There have been other 1500W bikes using a Rohloff without limitation, so it is likely it can take more than the current 750W they are limiting it too.
But without accumulated experience, I can understand he needs to approach it cautiously.

That said if one would be willing to forgo the Rohloff warranty, may be one could be allowed to program more power from the throttle.
 

greeno

Active Member
Region
USA
City
San Diego
I struggled a bit also fitting the ultra into its frame mount ( 3 bolts ) on my ( Travelanche frame and Ultra motor ) after connecting all the wiring until I figured that I could just connect up the (3) Anderson connections and lay them flat, connect the speed sensor up and feed ALL the other wires and connectors over to the side that has the plastic cover and make my connections there and then fit them in on the side after installing the (3) mounting bolts. When I connecting up the Anderson connectors I secured the connections together with some small tie-wraps to keep them from coming apart. I think they even make a plastic retaining clip for these which I would of used if I had them. Not a big fan of Anderson. Trying to fit everything under didn't want to go very well because of the rear brake line and dropper seatpost cable also taking up space. I didn't need the wires for the lights, brake cutoff or shift sensor cut-off so I safed them off with some heat shrink. I then mounted the shift sensor cut-off on the right side of my head tube just in front of where the internally routed wires in the downtube exit and then plugged the sensor plug into one of the plugs that was for one of the brake cut-offs up by the handlebars.
 
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tedacura1

Member
I struggled a bit also fitting the ultra into its frame mount ( 3 bolts ) on my ( Travelanche frame and Ultra motor ) after connecting all the wiring until I figured that I could just connect up the (3) Anderson connections and lay them flat, connect the speed sensor up and feed ALL the other wires and connectors over to the side that has the plastic cover and make my connections there and then fit them in on the side after installing the (3) mounting bolts. When I connecting up the Anderson connectors I secured the connections together with some small tie-wraps to keep them from coming apart. I think they even make a plastic retaining clip for these which I would of used if I had them. Not a big fan of Anderson. Trying to fit everything under didn't want to go very well because of the rear brake line and dropper seatpost cable also taking up space. I didn't need the wires for the lights, brake cutoff or shift sensor cut-off so I safed them off with some heat shrink. I then mounted the shift sensor cut-off on the right side of my head tube just in front of where the internally routed wires in the downtube exit and then plugged the sensor plug into one of the plugs that was for one of the brake cut-offs up by the handlebars.
Thanks so much by moving the connectors over to the side that has the plastic cover and laying the wires flat I was able to mount the motor... what a nightmare... thanks again for the advice it was much appreciated will see tomorrow how this controller perform
 

reed scott

Well-Known Member
Good to know. I also tightened the safety ring before I put the cranks on. I was so tired I wasn't thinking clearly and resorted to another (dumb) screwdriver method to keep the cranks from spinning. I am a glutton for punishment when it comes to bike maintenance and repair. 😅
How's this for resurrecting an ancient thread? Probably in here somewhere but does anybody know the torque setting for the safety ring and the crank arms?
 

reed scott

Well-Known Member
Pushkar, Since you are here ... I had a question above I would like answered that I had asked TomD:


Tom, I gather you simply bought an Archon equipped motor for your CC prior to pulling your existing motor. This is most likely what I will be doing when my AM 1000 rebadged bike gets here. Nothing wrong with having an extra motor around. :) In my looking at Pushkar's site and the options available when purchasing an Archon/Ultra package I am confused about which package to get. Were you able to literally plug in all your CC existing wiring directly to the motor supplied by WattWagon without the need for adaptors or actually rewiring any of your CC components? Thanks in advance for any info you can supply.👍

I would add now: If the answer to above is yes ... Then I would not need to order a motor WITH wiring harness? Thank you in advance. :)
 

reed scott

Well-Known Member
I struggled a bit also fitting the ultra into its frame mount ( 3 bolts ) on my ( Travelanche frame and Ultra motor ) after connecting all the wiring until I figured that I could just connect up the (3) Anderson connections and lay them flat, connect the speed sensor up and feed ALL the other wires and connectors over to the side that has the plastic cover and make my connections there and then fit them in on the side after installing the (3) mounting bolts. When I connecting up the Anderson connectors I secured the connections together with some small tie-wraps to keep them from coming apart. I think they even make a plastic retaining clip for these which I would of used if I had them. Not a big fan of Anderson. Trying to fit everything under didn't want to go very well because of the rear brake line and dropper seatpost cable also taking up space. I didn't need the wires for the lights, brake cutoff or shift sensor cut-off so I safed them off with some heat shrink. I then mounted the shift sensor cut-off on the right side of my head tube just in front of where the internally routed wires in the downtube exit and then plugged the sensor plug into one of the plugs that was for one of the brake cut-offs up by the handlebars.
You should get a medal for this instructive post. 👍 👍 👍
 

pushkar

Well-Known Member
Pushkar, Since you are here ... I had a question above I would like answered that I had asked TomD:


Tom, I gather you simply bought an Archon equipped motor for your CC prior to pulling your existing motor. This is most likely what I will be doing when my AM 1000 rebadged bike gets here. Nothing wrong with having an extra motor around. :) In my looking at Pushkar's site and the options available when purchasing an Archon/Ultra package I am confused about which package to get. Were you able to literally plug in all your CC existing wiring directly to the motor supplied by WattWagon without the need for adaptors or actually rewiring any of your CC components? Thanks in advance for any info you can supply.👍

I would add now: If the answer to above is yes ... Then I would not need to order a motor WITH wiring harness? Thank you in advance. :)

There is no difference in the motor connectors and we are not changeing the connectors- it is a straight swap.

I cant comment on the re-wiring of the CC - TomD can answer that. You don't need to order the motor with the wiring harness.