First ride with the Archon X1 upgrade!

pushkar

Well-Known Member
It's going to be hard for me to gauge as I have only ridden monitoring battery indicator (too lazy to do the voltage math). Due to glitch I was sent controller calibrated for 52V battery so my battery indicator is wonky and I will need to switch mentality to monitoring voltage. I have a monster hill on my way home and over time have leared to ensure my display never dropped much below 50% (not sure what voltage that was) as the last hill would literally sap that 50% down to 20% by the time I got home. Any idea what voltage corresponds to 50% battery on the stock controller / display?
Can you please switch to displaying voltage on the display ? This is a chart to track SOC https://electricbikereview.com/foru...balance-new-ebike-batteries.32912/post-262353
 

TomD

Well-Known Member
That's what I'm planning to do, but I just wasn't sure if the stock controller used the same chart to display battery percent remaining. If it did then great I have a frame of reference to compare against. Otherwise it may be apples to oranges.
 

pushkar

Well-Known Member
That's what I'm planning to do, but I just wasn't sure if the stock controller used the same chart to display battery percent remaining. If it did then great I have a frame of reference to compare against. Otherwise it may be apples to oranges.
Yup. Same. 👍
 

TomW

Active Member
@tomdav, @Ayl, @BillyDeeFour and @TomW are early “influencers”.

I was holding my breath for this. Phew. 😅. I can somewhat safely push out more marketing stuff now 😂


Please continue to provide feedback. We will continue to improve the controller with more refinements.

I’d be curious to see what type of efficiencies you all are getting.
@Ayl and @tomdav yoguys are right- the PAS1 is plenty for most regular riding scenarios.

Edit:
/end gloating

On the 1000 watt version I rarely go above pas level 3 even on road, and off road pas 2 works brilliant especially for the techy climbs it just feels right and very predictable,
My pas lvl 1 kinda feels like riding a normal weight bike, if my fitness and strength levels were at Olympian standard.
At pas 2 I'm getting up stuff I would have not even tried with the old controller for fear of it providing to much power and pulling up the front or not enough, I keep intending on borrowing a friend's Go Pro to capture a bit of the climbing ability.

I also intend to ride it at some point till it totally drains at maybe pas lvl 2 just to see what my realistic max range would be without having to work to hard. Also to get a fair comparison to the big brand bikes. But the battery definatly last's significantly longer than it did.
I guess somewhere between pas levels 1 and 2 feel most like the power level's you would expect of a normal say Bosch ebike at full power, but without the speed restriction's.
I'm actually quite confident it will beat them for range with the bafang restricted to similar power output.
I guess the fairest way would to be to make sure I do not exceed 20mph to get a fair apples for apples test.

Edit
I just went to the Bosch calculator and for a enduro emtb using the performance line cx, 500wh batt at 16mph they predict.
30 miles on turbo mode.
And 61 miles on eco.
So I'm going to use these figures as a bench mark.
 
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TomD

Well-Known Member
Can you please switch to displaying voltage on the display ? This is a chart to track SOC https://electricbikereview.com/foru...balance-new-ebike-batteries.32912/post-262353

Actually, since I'm lazy, I think I will just add 20% to the display reading. Comparing 52V and 48V SOC charts I should technically add 25% at full charge, and 20% at low charge, but since I only care about % remaining at lower charge, adding 20% keeps things simple. Bonus of this approach is I don't want to run my battery much below 20% (for battery health) so I can just go with the display as it reads (with the 20% margin already deducted).
 

Ebiker33

Well-Known Member
Actually, since I'm lazy, I think I will just add 20% to the display reading. Comparing 52V and 48V SOC charts I should technically add 25% at full charge, and 20% at low charge, but since I only care about % remaining at lower charge, adding 20% keeps things simple. Bonus of this approach is I don't want to run my battery much below 20% (for battery health) so I can just go with the display as it reads (with the 20% margin already deducted).
The nice thing about a 52V at 20% your still at 45V
xhthgb9f87u41.png
 

TomD

Well-Known Member
OK, I'm confused. I just charged my 48V battery to 100%. At least I assume it's 100% as I plugged the charger directly into the battery and left it charged until the fan went off. Before the upgrade my display would show 100% in this scenario. According to this SOC chart I would think the new controller (set for 52V battery) would indicate 75%, but it is only showing 67%. Am I missing something? Or is the new controller making adjustments for non-linear discharge?

1545991790982-png.28450
 

TomW

Active Member
I'm confused now, I thought you needed a 52 volt battery for the 2300 watt version? I may be mistaken tho. But I guess that yeah it would read a lower % with the lower voltage batt.
You may want to ask Pushkar what the low voltage cut off point is on the 2300 watt board it may be higher than the 1k version meaning that you will lose a lot of potential range. But this is purely speculation.

Mine reads 100% at full charge with a 48 volt batt but mine is the 1kw version.
Change the display to voltage instead of percent to make sure you have got full charge.
 
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TomD

Well-Known Member
Pushkar shipped a 52V calibrated controller by mistake which is why I'm jumping thru these hoops (until I get the programming cable to calibrate back to 48V). OK, so I just changed display to voltage. It reads 53.9V. It should read 54.6V. For grins I plugged in a different 48V charger and it immediately cut off charging. So I suspect voltage is actually 54.6 and the controller is just reading or displaying it wrong. With the stock controller I was seeing 100% charge, so I don't think the battery is somehow not charging to 54.6V. I wish I had the Grin Satiator that I thought was going to be included but seem to been forgotten. ;)
 
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TomD

Well-Known Member
Okay, test ride number three. I'm having a hard time wiping the grin off my one week unshaven face despite getting stung by a bee in the lip and feeling like I just came out of the dentist office.

IMG_20200718_165505.jpg


I am halfway through my ride and all I can say is I'm ready to plaster my helmet with a Watt Wagon's logo and MBGA (Making Bafang Great Again) visor. If you are on the fence about this controller just get your wallet out now and order this thing before the word gets out and Pushkar is inundated with business.

The experience is simply amazing. It now feels like the motor is an extension of the bike. The power blends in perfectly and seamlessly. After my brief ride yesterday I commented that I wasn't sure the torque sensing was up to par with euro spec controllers. After today's ride I think it is just as good if not better than anything I've ever ridden. I went up some very tricky switchbacks that were near impossible to ride with the stock controller and with the new controller I came close to making it all the way up. The only thing preventing me was I didn't want to push my riding skills.

Seriously, this controller does make Bafang great again. Bafang could never do their torque sensing motors justice but this controller does just that and puts it at the level of one of the very best motors out there.

As far as efficiency, I'll let my display do the talking. The first screenshot was leaving the house and the second is halfway through one of the longer rides I did with my stock controller. If I'm doing the math right I have used less than 25% battery.

IMG_20200718_153251.jpg

IMG_20200718_165053.jpg


Edit: made it home with what appears to be more than 50% battery. I'm simply blown away. The only other time I did the same ride I was struggling to get home with the battery dipping below 20%. Granted that was with a new battery that hadn't been cycled but I would venture to guess I'm getting at least 20% efficiency gain.

IMG_20200718_185321.jpg
 
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pushkar

Well-Known Member
Okay, test ride number three. I'm having a hard time wiping the grin off my one week unshaven face despite getting stung by a bee in the lip and feeling like I just came out of the dentist office.


I am halfway through my ride and all I can say is I'm ready to plaster my helmet with a Watt Wagon's logo and MBGA (Making Bafang Great Again) visor. If you are on the fence about this controller just get your wallet out now and order this thing before the word gets out and Pushkar is inundated with business.

The experience is simply amazing. It now feels like the motor is an extension of the bike. The power blends in perfectly and seamlessly. After my brief ride yesterday I commented that I wasn't sure the torque sensing was up to par with euro spec controllers. After today's ride I think it is just as good if not better than anything I've ever ridden. I went up some very tricky switchbacks that were near impossible to ride with the stock controller and with the new controller I came close to making it all the way up. The only thing preventing me was I didn't want to push my riding skills.

Seriously, this controller does make Bafang great again. Bafang could never do their torque sensing motors justice but this controller does just that and puts it at the level of one of the very best motors out there.

As far as efficiency, I'll let my display do the talking. The first screenshot was leaving the house and the second is halfway through one of the longer rides I did with my stock controller. If I'm doing the math right I have used less than 25% battery.


Edit: made it home with what appears to be more than 50% battery. I'm simply blown away. The only other time I did the same ride I was struggling to get home with the battery dipping below 20%. Granted that was with a new battery that hadn't been cycled but I would venture to guess I'm getting at least 20% efficiency gain.


You rock my world @tomdav !!
- MJ
 

TomD

Well-Known Member
Pushkar, before I get too excited about efficiency can you comment on why I might be seeing less than expected voltage with a full charge. Just want to make sure the display is giving me voltage readings that make sense.
 

TomD

Well-Known Member
Also, one negative to report. I almost forgot about this in my excitement at getting home with more than 50% battery. On my way up the monster hill at the end of my ride the motor cut out abruptly at least three times for a split second. I'm not sure what caused this. I had bumped things up to PAS2 and perhaps my battery was getting stressed or I might have eased off the pedals too much but it was abnormal. I got out my phone to take a video clip for the rest of the ride up and of course that fixed the problem as the gremlins chose not to manifest after that.
 

pushkar

Well-Known Member
Pushkar, before I get too excited about efficiency can you comment on why I might be seeing less than expected voltage with a full charge. Just want to make sure the display is giving me voltage readings that make sense.

I am not sure tbh - but I can think of 2 things

1. Battery is not balanced - so some individual cells are not charged /fully charged. This is the most likely cause since your battery is new.

2. Less likely scenario is that some individual cells in your pack may be functioning below capacity. This is more likely may happen if you had an older battery pack or really pushed the pack to its limits (rapid discharge) multiple times (e.g. going up the mountain, or constantly on throttle, or always riding fast at high assist level). I dont know if you have done that recently,


May be the quickest way is to just use a voltmeter and see if it matches what the display says ?
 
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pushkar

Well-Known Member
Also, one negative to report. I almost forgot about this in my excitement at getting home with more than 50% battery. On my way up the monster hill at the end of my ride the motor cut out abruptly at least three times for a split second. I'm not sure what caused this. I had bumped things up to PAS2 and perhaps my battery was getting stressed or I might have eased off the pedals too much but it was abnormal. I got out my phone to take a video clip for the rest of the ride up and of course that fixed the problem.
Interesting. It will be interesting I will be curious to see if you can replicate it again. I would also check the battery connectors. The new controller is a lot more sensitive so if battery pack is not seated correctly or the connectors are loose, that may be causing an issue.

I will jiggle and test the motor more on my end as well. Will also explore if we might be able to decrease the sensitivity to intermittent connections.
 
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TomD

Well-Known Member
The stock display showed 100% at full charge. I would think if there was a problem with the cells the stock display would have shown lower % at full charge. Also, I would think the 2 chargers would have not have cut off, but both indicated battery was fully charged. By chance I do have a voltmeter and dusted it off. Voltmeter indicates resting voltage is 50.6V while the display shows 49.2V, so again the display is reading lower. I guess the good news is I only used 25% battery today if the voltmeter is correct. :D

Yes, I do have a gear sensor and brake sensors.
 

pushkar

Well-Known Member
1. OK.. good to know. I will test the voltage more on my end (controller configured for 52V but connected to 48V pack).

2. Please try to use without the gear sensor and see if the power disconnects still happen.