First Time buyer looking for opinions on daily use hybrid ebike, with throttle

SethO

New Member
Region
USA
Hello,
I am a first time (to be) consumer of ebikes. I am searching for an ebike that I can use in place of my car in a city setting with moderate hills, but also venture on decently long countryside rides and easy trails. The daily commute will be on all pavement, but they are Pennsylvania roads, so there are a lot of bumps and potholes. This is a semi hilly area, so I will need some power helping me. I am in my mid 20s and in good shape, so I can do not need to solely rely on the throttle for hills by any means.

My ebike search has been looking like this:
NEED
  • Street & trail legal (<750w motor)
  • On Demand Throttle
  • at least 60-65nm torque
  • Removable battery
  • 750w motor
WOULD LIKE
  • 1+ suspension points
  • Semi-integrated battery
  • at least 80nm torque
  • integrated head/tail lights
  • it to not be obvious its an ebike (have massive battery packs on it). This is to lower possible theft, and to lower overall curiosity from police and other people trying to disturb a guy on his bike.
Range isn't really going to be an issue unless it is really, really poor. I plan on purchasing a second battery regardless.
With all of this being said, its clear I won't find this bike cheap. My idea limit is ~$6,000.... but I have put serious thought into the Jeep Quietkat bike at around $7,500.

My current frontrunner is the Juggernaut Hub Duo (attached picture) with all of the upgraded/added features. I'm also a fan of their customer service so far. I also the Sondors LX and Sondors Rockstar on my radar, but neither of them have the range of capabilities that the Juggernaut has in my opinion.

I was considering mid-drive bikes until someone made the point of if your chain snaps on a mid drive, you're out of luck, whereas if the chain snaps on your rear hub drive bike, you still have the electric direct motor, and vice versa.

If anyone has any insight that might be of any help, or wants to be my first ebike friend, let me know :^)
 

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indianajo

Well-Known Member
We are unanimous, potholes mean 26" wheels or bigger if your legs will allow it. 2" tires ease the shock of a pothole, but don't add the drag that 4" 25 psi fat tires do.
Your height leg & arm length, weight matter. Daily use to me means shopping. How much? Security adds 3 to 20 lb if necessary: how secure is your daily parking? What kind of tethers? There are thieves that specialize in U-locks, popping the cylinder or sawing the sheet metal tube the city provides in seconds.
What range daily versus weekend?
What desired cruising speed? DD cruises fast and is sluggish through intersections. Geared hub accelerates quickly and can wear out the gears in ~5000 miles. New power wheels with hub are about $300 unless the vendor has a patented connector.
Chain snaps don't happen often, but sticks & general misadjustment can make a chain fall off. I don't like rethreading them in urban locations, how about you? I have to take the pannier off to reach it, and most times empty the bag on the ground. Tools, spare tubes, water, rain gear security device are always in the bag & sometimes groceries or ag supplies too.
Mid drive buys you torque sensing control, which is nice. Mid drive costs you throttle mostly, also more chain maintenance. Most mid drives drag unpowered, which would annoy me that rides for heart health but maybe not you.
Changing a tube requires in my case turning the bike over on seat & handlebars. Can the display handle that? How? Undoing 1 plug on bafang hub doesn't to me require all the hysteria that some people have about changing a tire on a hub drive. My ebikeling hub had 2 plugs, whoopie! About 3 minutes more than the driveless wheels. I spend more time trying to get the fender struts to not scrape after the wheel is out of the frame.
Juggernaught looks good with torque sensing and 17.5 ah battery. 52 v is a bit extreme. Most west coast vendors won't sell a hub motor with more than 36 v due to the possibility of burning up on a rise >1000'. No 1000' rises in Pennsylvania, but I'm riding a 48 v geared hub drive in hilly S. Indiana. Juggernaught doesn't show dimensions to see if it fits you. I'm a prime example of one size does not fit all - especially not me.
Other torque sensing hub drives are Smartmotion (reviews are 2016, may be dead) and possibly xtreme catalina (although that may have been only on the 2019 model).
Be aware Pennsylvania is death on throttles and class 3 ebikes both in certain cities, counties, parks and trails. Lancaster county comes to mind as particularly obnoxious. Read up on rules anywhere you are going to go before buying something the police will confiscate.
 
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AHicks

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
Snow Bird - Summer S.E. Michigan, Winter Gulf Coast North Central Fl.
Hello,
I am a first time (to be) consumer of ebikes. I am searching for an ebike that I can use in place of my car in a city setting with moderate hills, but also venture on decently long countryside rides and easy trails. The daily commute will be on all pavement, but they are Pennsylvania roads, so there are a lot of bumps and potholes. This is a semi hilly area, so I will need some power helping me. I am in my mid 20s and in good shape, so I can do not need to solely rely on the throttle for hills by any means.

My ebike search has been looking like this:
NEED
  • Street & trail legal (<750w motor)
  • On Demand Throttle
  • at least 60-65nm torque
  • Removable battery
  • 750w motor
WOULD LIKE
  • 1+ suspension points
  • Semi-integrated battery
  • at least 80nm torque
  • integrated head/tail lights
  • it to not be obvious its an ebike (have massive battery packs on it). This is to lower possible theft, and to lower overall curiosity from police and other people trying to disturb a guy on his bike.
Range isn't really going to be an issue unless it is really, really poor. I plan on purchasing a second battery regardless.
With all of this being said, its clear I won't find this bike cheap. My idea limit is ~$6,000.... but I have put serious thought into the Jeep Quietkat bike at around $7,500.

My current frontrunner is the Juggernaut Hub Duo (attached picture) with all of the upgraded/added features. I'm also a fan of their customer service so far. I also the Sondors LX and Sondors Rockstar on my radar, but neither of them have the range of capabilities that the Juggernaut has in my opinion.

I was considering mid-drive bikes until someone made the point of if your chain snaps on a mid drive, you're out of luck, whereas if the chain snaps on your rear hub drive bike, you still have the electric direct motor, and vice versa.

If anyone has any insight that might be of any help, or wants to be my first ebike friend, let me know :^)
On the bold, the potential of snapping a chain, in my experience, should NOT be used as any part of a buying decision. It's just not something you hear about frequently, and further, a snapped chain is not the disaster it sounds like. Yes, I own both hub and mid, and drive both frequently.
 

tomjasz

Well-Known Member
Mid drive buys you torque sensing control, which is nice. Mid drive costs you throttle mostly, also more chain maintenance. Most mid drives drag unpowered, which would annoy me that rides for heart health but maybe not you.
Jo,

I just don‘t know where you get this. BBSxx series mids are PAS. Not sure what “costs you throttle” means? Mid kits have throttles. Drag is minimal on 5 different mids I’ve ridden! You’re so darn helpful, it’s just these mid drive generalisations I question. Ride on!:)
 

indianajo

Well-Known Member
Jo,

I just don‘t know where you get this. BBSxx series mids are PAS. Not sure what “costs you throttle” means? Mid kits have throttles. Drag is minimal on 5 different mids I’ve ridden! You’re so darn helpful, it’s just these mid drive generalisations I question. Ride on!:)
Poster wants to buy a bike, not build one. When I look at Court reviews, its bosch bosch bosch bosch bosch bosch bosch bosch shimano. I guess probably most ebikes sold are bosch mid drives. I've seen a few. Bosch doesn't allow throttles.
I've never seen a home built bafang middrive. This is not California. Hobbiests here install hub drives, even though some build their batteries themselves. Don't see those guys more than once, usually.
 

Taylor57

Well-Known Member
Hello,
I am a first time (to be) consumer of ebikes. I am searching for an ebike that I can use in place of my car in a city setting with moderate hills, but also venture on decently long countryside rides and easy trails. The daily commute will be on all pavement, but they are Pennsylvania roads, so there are a lot of bumps and potholes. This is a semi hilly area, so I will need some power helping me. I am in my mid 20s and in good shape, so I can do not need to solely rely on the throttle for hills by any means.

My ebike search has been looking like this:
NEED
  • Street & trail legal (<750w motor)
  • On Demand Throttle
  • at least 60-65nm torque
  • Removable battery
  • 750w motor
WOULD LIKE
  • 1+ suspension points
  • Semi-integrated battery
  • at least 80nm torque
  • integrated head/tail lights
  • it to not be obvious its an ebike (have massive battery packs on it). This is to lower possible theft, and to lower overall curiosity from police and other people trying to disturb a guy on his bike.
Range isn't really going to be an issue unless it is really, really poor. I plan on purchasing a second battery regardless.
With all of this being said, its clear I won't find this bike cheap. My idea limit is ~$6,000.... but I have put serious thought into the Jeep Quietkat bike at around $7,500.

My current frontrunner is the Juggernaut Hub Duo (attached picture) with all of the upgraded/added features. I'm also a fan of their customer service so far. I also the Sondors LX and Sondors Rockstar on my radar, but neither of them have the range of capabilities that the Juggernaut has in my opinion.

I was considering mid-drive bikes until someone made the point of if your chain snaps on a mid drive, you're out of luck, whereas if the chain snaps on your rear hub drive bike, you still have the electric direct motor, and vice versa.

If anyone has any insight that might be of any help, or wants to be my first ebike friend, let me know :^)

I would look at Espin Sport or Ride 1 Up 700 Series. (full disclosure, I own 2 Espin Sports)
 

SethO

New Member
Region
USA
Mid drive costs you throttle mostly, also more chain maintenance. Most mid drives drag unpowered, which would annoy me that rides for heart health but maybe not you.
Changing a tube requires in my case turning the bike over on seat & handlebars. Can the display handle that? How? Undoing 1 plug on bafang hub doesn't to me require all the hysteria that some people have about changing a tire on a hub drive. My ebikeling hub had 2 plugs, whoopie! About 3 minutes more than the driveless wheels. I spend more time trying to get the fender struts to not scrape after the wheel is out of the frame.
Juggernaught looks good with torque sensing and 17.5 ah battery. 52 v is a bit extreme. Most west coast vendors won't sell a hub
We are unanimous, potholes mean 26" wheels or bigger if your legs will allow it. 2" tires ease the shock of a pothole, but don't add the drag that 4" 25 psi fat tires do.
Your height leg & arm length, weight matter. Daily use to me means shopping. How much? Security adds 3 to 20 lb if necessary: how secure is your daily parking? What kind of tethers? There are thieves that specialize in U-locks, popping the cylinder or sawing the sheet metal tube the city provides in seconds.
What range daily versus weekend?
What desired cruising speed? DD cruises fast and is sluggish through intersections. Geared hub accelerates quickly and can wear out the gears in ~5000 miles. New power wheels with hub are about $300 unless the vendor has a patented connector.
Chain snaps don't happen often, but sticks & general misadjustment can make a chain fall off. I don't like rethreading them in urban locations, how about you? I have to take the pannier off to reach it, and most times empty the bag on the ground. Tools, spare tubes, water, rain gear security device are always in the bag & sometimes groceries or ag supplies too.
Mid drive buys you torque sensing control, which is nice. Mid drive costs you throttle mostly, also more chain maintenance. Most mid drives drag unpowered, which would annoy me that rides for heart health but maybe not you.
Changing a tube requires in my case turning the bike over on seat & handlebars. Can the display handle that? How? Undoing 1 plug on bafang hub doesn't to me require all the hysteria that some people have about changing a tire on a hub drive. My ebikeling hub had 2 plugs, whoopie! About 3 minutes more than the driveless wheels. I spend more time trying to get the fender struts to not scrape after the wheel is out of the frame.
Juggernaught looks good with torque sensing and 17.5 ah battery. 52 v is a bit extreme. Most west coast vendors won't sell a hub motor with more than 36 v due to the possibility of burning up on a rise >1000'. No 1000' rises in Pennsylvania, but I'm riding a 48 v geared hub drive in hilly S. Indiana. Juggernaught doesn't show dimensions to see if it fits you. I'm a prime example of one size does not fit all - especially not me.
Other torque sensing hub drives are Smartmotion (reviews are 2016, may be dead) and possibly xtreme catalina (although that may have been only on the 2019 model).
Be aware Pennsylvania is death on throttles and class 3 ebikes both in certain cities, counties, parks and trails. Lancaster county comes to mind as particularly obnoxious. Read up on rules anywhere you are going to go before buying something the police will confiscate.
I appreciate the info. The specific city is Pittsburgh, and what based upon what I have read on and the couple times I have been there, they area very bike friendly city. With that being said, I agree with you in maybe avoiding class 3 bikes, but if a class 2 bike has the desired power I am looking for, its completely legal and the cops would then be in the wrong (assuming I did nothing wrong to begin with).
The apartments I am looking at all conveniently have secured indoor bike storage areas, so I'm not too worried about someone stealing my bike at home, and at work I plan to work something out.

Daily commute might be between 10 and 15, maybe 18 miles. Would go on occasional park trails on weekends.

I have considered getting the a mid drive bike and just always having a backup chain with me just incase a chain break happens.

I am 5'11 and ~165lbs with average legs and above average length arms.
On the bold, the potential of snapping a chain, in my experience, should NOT be used as any part of a buying decision. It's just not something you hear about frequently, and further, a snapped chain is not the disaster it sounds like. Yes, I own both hub and mid, and drive both frequently.
I appreciate it. As jo sort of touched on, I could just have another chain along with me for worst case.
 

AHicks

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
Snow Bird - Summer S.E. Michigan, Winter Gulf Coast North Central Fl.
Poster wants to buy a bike, not build one. When I look at Court reviews, its bosch bosch bosch bosch bosch bosch bosch bosch shimano. I guess probably most ebikes sold are bosch mid drives. I've seen a few. Bosch doesn't allow throttles.
I've never seen a home built bafang middrive. This is not California. Hobbiests here install hub drives, even though some build their batteries themselves. Don't see those guys more than once, usually.
You sir, seem to be a victim of lack of exposure/experience. There are a TON of people installing both Bafang and Tsdc mid drives conversions! Limiting your reading to reviews done by Court is going to hold you back big time.

Because you've never seen one does not mean they don't exist or have anything to do with how popular they are.

As far as new production bikes, and the availability of non Bosch drives, you really owe it to yourself to do a better job of searching. Bafang mid drives are VERY popular, available from quite a few bike manf's, and are ridden from one coast to the other. Searches for BBS02, BBSHD, and Ultra should be an eye opener...
 
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indianajo

Well-Known Member
I The specific city is Pittsburgh,, and at work I plan to work something out.
Daily commute might be between 10 and 15, maybe 18 miles. Would go on occasional park trails on weekends.
I am 5'11 and ~165lbs with average legs and above average length arms.
Average 18" 19" 20" frame should fit you fine. Most stock in bike shops will be that size.
10 AH battery would work over 15 miles, if you charge every leg. 17 AH should get you both ways without charge. Most store stock bikes are about 12 to 14 AH batteries. 17.5 AH battery gets me ~30 miles with 85 lb tools+water+raingear+security+cargo 160 lb me and 80 hills, like Pittsburg. I ride 9 mph. Faster, more watthours consumes. More leg effort you put in you can stretch the miles on one battery. Ask about the cost of spare battery. Generic Dolphin batteries are ~$650, Giant/Yamaha $1000 the shop told me last week, Bosch ~$1300.
Blix Packa would fit you, comes with 2 batteries for ~$2300, has throttle + cargo shelf +24x2" tires, 750W, no suspension. 1 complaint on "known problems & solutions" brand thread. https://electricbikereview.com/blix/packa-genie/ Aveny has some hub motor bikes in shops. Magnum too but they are 350 w. Pedego are 750 w hub motor bikes but very pricey; one plus is reputable service. Put your zip code in the base page of forum, it will show you shops near you. Trek are Bosch mid, Giant are Yamaha mid, Gazelle are Bosch mid.
I carry a 8 lb 1/2" x 6' SS sling with 1 lb abus 92/80 lock in a pannier bag. I lock to power poles & gas meters, not those silly bike tethers that can be cut in 1 minute. 4 years no attempts at the sling, although there have been 2 tries at the battery, 2 lights stolen and 1 vandalized. Pittsburg could have plenty of prof thieves. Serious 13 mm x 2 m hardened chains weigh about twice that. I'd keep the battery in the office.
 
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indianajo

Well-Known Member
lockpick lawyer reported 6 pin Abus cores took 2 shots of gunpowder stud installer instead of 1 to release. 5 pin cores as Master typically release in 1 shot.
The 12 mm shank of 92/80 is all covered up in sling loops. Burglar might be able to reach it with 7" grinder wheel with 3 hands.
I tried to cut a 3/8" 9 strand SS cable laying on sidewalk in nearby Clarksville 2 weeks ago. $30 Chanl-lock 7.8" diagonal cutter. Took 4 minutes to cut one strand. 9 strands would be 36 minutes. 1/2" SS cable has 9 thicker strands. and thicker individual wires. In high traffic areas like the Greyhound station, I also lock the front power wheel to the power pole with the obsolete 3/8"x6' SS sling with master grade 11 lock.
 
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tomjasz

Well-Known Member
lockpick lawyer reported 6 pin Abus cores took 2 shots of gunpowder stud installer instead of 1 to release. 5 pin cores as Master typically release in 1 shot.
The 12 mm shank of 92/80 is all covered up in sling loops. Burglar might be able to reach it with 7" grinder wheel with 3 hands.
I tried to cut a 3/8" 9 strand SS cable laying on sidewalk in nearby Clarksville 2 weeks ago. $30 Chanl-lock 7.8" diagonal cutter. Took 4 minutes to cut one strand. 9 strands would be 36 minutes. 1/2" SS cable has 9 thicker strands. and thicker individual wires. In high traffic areas like the Greyhound station, I also lock the front power wheel to the power pole with the obsolete 3/8"x6' SS sling with master grade 11 lock.
I should have known you’d have done due diligence. A good u lock and alarm here. I know exactly where store cameras are to see my ride. Before eBikes I almost never carried a lock. My bike came with me or I visited someone else or shopped elsewhere. A hidden Apple device for good measure with the alarm. In Las Vegas no one paid attention to vehicle alarms. There were lots of false alarms. Here in small city Minnesota they get noticed.
Thanks for the follow up. Always something new to learn here.
 

Gordon71

Well-Known Member
I doubt chain breakage is much of a concern for mid drives (I do not own one) but I would think proper chain maintenance and replacement once it reaches it's wear limits means you won't experience it. That said I like the fact that my bike has a throttle as a quick 1 second throttle burst will easily get you rolling and pedaling when stopping in a higher gear.
 

John from Connecticut

Well-Known Member
Hello,
I am a first time (to be) consumer of ebikes. I am searching for an ebike that I can use in place of my car in a city setting with moderate hills, but also venture on decently long countryside rides and easy trails. The daily commute will be on all pavement, but they are Pennsylvania roads, so there are a lot of bumps and potholes. This is a semi hilly area, so I will need some power helping me. I am in my mid 20s and in good shape, so I can do not need to solely rely on the throttle for hills by any means.

My ebike search has been looking like this:
NEED
  • Street & trail legal (<750w motor)
  • On Demand Throttle
  • at least 60-65nm torque
  • Removable battery
  • 750w motor
WOULD LIKE
  • 1+ suspension points
  • Semi-integrated battery
  • at least 80nm torque
  • integrated head/tail lights
  • it to not be obvious its an ebike (have massive battery packs on it). This is to lower possible theft, and to lower overall curiosity from police and other people trying to disturb a guy on his bike.
Range isn't really going to be an issue unless it is really, really poor. I plan on purchasing a second battery regardless.
With all of this being said, its clear I won't find this bike cheap. My idea limit is ~$6,000.... but I have put serious thought into the Jeep Quietkat bike at around $7,500.

My current frontrunner is the Juggernaut Hub Duo (attached picture) with all of the upgraded/added features. I'm also a fan of their customer service so far. I also the Sondors LX and Sondors Rockstar on my radar, but neither of them have the range of capabilities that the Juggernaut has in my opinion.

I was considering mid-drive bikes until someone made the point of if your chain snaps on a mid drive, you're out of luck, whereas if the chain snaps on your rear hub drive bike, you still have the electric direct motor, and vice versa.

If anyone has any insight that might be of any help, or wants to be my first ebike friend, let me know :^)
Howdy,
A quick comment/question on mid-drives and chains snapping. I have two Trek e-bikes, a commuter and a MTB. Both have
Bosch Mid Drives (Which I love) I ride exclusively on Rail to Trails and limited paved roads. Total milage on both bikes just shy
of 9000 miles. Never had a Chain Break. Personally if I was shopping for an e-Bike chain broken chains would not
be a consideration based on your style of riding

You mentioned 80nm of torque. Good choice. My Trek Powerfly 5 MTB has the Bosch CX motor 65nm and that bike will climb
a brick wall ! My guess based on your stated riding style, 80nm will be absolutely plenty of power. Of course the gearing plays
into the experience. As far as I'm concerned mid drives are the way to go. I can only speak for my Bosch mid drives but the
riding experience is silky smooth and very natural feeling.

As for folks that speak of chain breaks, how many EBR readers out there have personally experienced a broken chain riding
under the conditions SethO has listed.? I'm not talking single track, high torque, gnarly trails. .....I'll wait :)

Last but not least, my very personal opinion. I prefer my e-bikes without a throttle. Should you get a bike with 80nm of torque,
plus you're in your 20s in good shape, so torque, your age and condition you'll have no trouble accelerating. I'm 75 and I do
it all the time, no problem : ) I hope this was helpful

Good luck,
John
 
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tomjasz

Well-Known Member
I could just have another chain along with me for worst case.
The brain trust here sometimes falls asleep. I’m sure a curmudgeon or two will grab the mid drive high ground and put fear into the unwashed(poor homework). LOTS of data on cooling hub drives and taking on city street hills.
BTW I worked Bafang Mid Drive Motor support for shops from 2015 till the end of December 2021. Chains were among the least bothersome and in the top 5 slowest selling replacement part.

if you like a hub motor bike there’s great heat cooling solutions.
Heat sink cooling fins and thermal tape too.
 

PedalUma

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
Petaluma, CA
As for locks one guy posted photos of a round Omega shaped bike rack with a six-inch section missing. His bike was not really a bike but an unclassed electric motorcycle that could go over 28 with a throttle and insurance did not pay. In some cases it does not matter what lock you have. It is best to take the bike inside with you and keep an eye on it. We live in a world of portable battery operated tools.

Only people selling only hub-drives will tell about a chain breaking. They won't tell you what a pain it is to change a rear flat on a hub-drive. What is funny is that it is against the law to ride a hub-drive with a broken chain. In order to be a 'bike' it needs to be able to be operated by the pedals. With a broken chain hub-drives cannot go on a bike path or in a bike lane. I know that you want to buy a bike. I get it. I didn't want to drop the $7500 so I made this one today. It is a mid-drive. I removed all the connectors and chopped off any zip ties. Going zip tie free is like skinny dipping. Fun and liberating. This afternoon I will work on converting a Specialized Fat Boy. When I am done it will weigh 39 pounds. 48V, 750W, 90Nm. It has five inch tires and will not have zip ties.
1648420702722.jpeg
 

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Dorkyman

Member
Region
USA
New to eBikes but rode extensively both street and mountain bikes 30 years ago.

From the YouTube videos I've concluded that NO LOCK will survive a battery-powered angle grinder. That said, something like a relatively-light FoldyLock will make them work to get through it. I combine that with an alarm.
 

m@Robertson

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
Zzzzzzz mememememeeee *snork* ... I'm awake! What'd I miss?

I always carry a chain with me. Standard issue in my mid drive toolkit. I've never actually used one in many thousands of ride miles, but for that one occasion if it ever happens, I'm covered. With that said its just a $25 precaution (I like precautions as I'm a daily rider) and I have no expectation of ever snapping a chain.

I use super duper sealant in my super duper heavy duty tires now, but I still carry a pump and patch kit. Same deal there. Precautions. I haven't had a flat in like a year. Maybe more (I will have one tomorrow now that I have mocked the flat tire gods).

I wouldn't worry about relying on the throttle for hills. If you are a cyclist you will ride up them and use the PAS setting to get up the hills. Gravity takes you back down the other side, or keep pedaling to get where you are going faster. I'm a fan of mid drives because they are the most versatile, and when put together right they are completely reliable. No extra chain wear/chainring wear etc. etc.
 

GhettoWedo74

New Member
Region
USA
Hello,
I am a first time (to be) consumer of ebikes. I am searching for an ebike that I can use in place of my car in a city setting with moderate hills, but also venture on decently long countryside rides and easy trails. The daily commute will be on all pavement, but they are Pennsylvania roads, so there are a lot of bumps and potholes. This is a semi hilly area, so I will need some power helping me. I am in my mid 20s and in good shape, so I can do not need to solely rely on the throttle for hills by any means.

My ebike search has been looking like this:
NEED
  • Street & trail legal (<750w motor)
  • On Demand Throttle
  • at least 60-65nm torque
  • Removable battery
  • 750w motor
WOULD LIKE
  • 1+ suspension points
  • Semi-integrated battery
  • at least 80nm torque
  • integrated head/tail lights
  • it to not be obvious its an ebike (have massive battery packs on it). This is to lower possible theft, and to lower overall curiosity from police and other people trying to disturb a guy on his bike.
Range isn't really going to be an issue unless it is really, really poor. I plan on purchasing a second battery regardless.
With all of this being said, its clear I won't find this bike cheap. My idea limit is ~$6,000.... but I have put serious thought into the Jeep Quietkat bike at around $7,500.

My current frontrunner is the Juggernaut Hub Duo (attached picture) with all of the upgraded/added features. I'm also a fan of their customer service so far. I also the Sondors LX and Sondors Rockstar on my radar, but neither of them have the range of capabilities that the Juggernaut has in my opinion.

I was considering mid-drive bikes until someone made the point of if your chain snaps on a mid drive, you're out of luck, whereas if the chain snaps on your rear hub drive bike, you still have the electric direct motor, and vice versa.

If anyone has any insight that might be of any help, or wants to be my first ebike friend, let me know :^)
Look at a Fiido T1, & see if that suits your needs, it checks of the list most of the requirements your looking for.
I had mine for Uber a month & got over 1k miles already. Mind you, I was pretty much bedridden & gave up on life from fighting off Covid twice & almost dying, & being diagnosed with Long Term Covid as well, I was forced to stop working, & so this sent me into a terrible depression, UNTIL I got my e-Bike, I've been out riding everyday 30-60 miles(average range 45-75 miles on full charge) I've lost 22lbs, am walking way further now, because my lungs are getting stronger, as well is THE BEST "pill" to fight depression, well at least in my situation, can't believe getting an e-Bike would literally change a 47 yo mans life!👍
Fiido aftercare is top notch, which most e-Bike companies lack, once they get your money, it's near, if not impossible to get a message back to solve your issues.
I paid $1,579.00 out the door with no taxes added, with a code I found online, you can use code: GhettoWedo74 to save $20, plus pay no sales tax in the US, & I'm pretty sure the UK, if you pay with Paypal you'll save $50, but not sure if they stack, can't hurt to ask.