First Vado Flat is a Mystery

rochrunner

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
Rochester Hills
I was getting set to do a 50-mile ride on my Vado 4.0 this week, packed my lunch in my bag, installed water bottles, etc., but when I went to move the bike to the center of the garage to air up the tires, the rear tire was flat -- and I mean pancake flat. Aargh! At least it happened at home where I could hoist up the rear of the bike into the clamp on my stand and easily remove the rear wheel. I have to say that it was the easiest tire fix I think I've ever had: I used a lever just to get the first few inches of bead over and then the tire pretty much just fell off the rim. Putting things back together was very easy by hand and it wasn't even hard on my thumbs to get the last part of the bead in place, plus I like it when I hear that "pop" sound as the bead seats properly all the way around.

The "mystery" part is that, even though the old tube came out as flat as a new tube from the box, when I aired it up to find the leak I couldn't find anything and two days later the inflated tube is still holding air hanging in the garage! It had been over a week since I'd previously ridden it, but since I walk by it several times a day, it's hard to believe that I wouldn't have noticed the flat tire before that day.

What's even weirder is that I had almost the same thing happen about a week ago on my road bike! In that case I actually heard the air come out just after going over a bump and immediately thought "pinch flat", but again the tube held air when I reinflated it. However, I had noticed that the center core on the Presta valve appeared to be slightly bent and it had been a bit touchy when adding air, so I put it down to a faulty valve.

Anyway, I'm not sure if it's worth pursuing finding the assumed tiny puncture in the old Vado tube. Nothing was obvious on the inside of the tire, and I completed my long ride with no issues. Anyone have experience in this regard?
 

fooferdoggie

Well-Known Member
\I seldom find what caused the flats. I use Stans in the tube and that gets most of them. I find the tube stuck to the tire is I know something happened.
 

Dallant

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
I was getting set to do a 50-mile ride on my Vado 4.0 this week, packed my lunch in my bag, installed water bottles, etc., but when I went to move the bike to the center of the garage to air up the tires, the rear tire was flat -- and I mean pancake flat. Aargh! At least it happened at home where I could hoist up the rear of the bike into the clamp on my stand and easily remove the rear wheel. I have to say that it was the easiest tire fix I think I've ever had: I used a lever just to get the first few inches of bead over and then the tire pretty much just fell off the rim. Putting things back together was very easy by hand and it wasn't even hard on my thumbs to get the last part of the bead in place, plus I like it when I hear that "pop" sound as the bead seats properly all the way around.

The "mystery" part is that, even though the old tube came out as flat as a new tube from the box, when I aired it up to find the leak I couldn't find anything and two days later the inflated tube is still holding air hanging in the garage! It had been over a week since I'd previously ridden it, but since I walk by it several times a day, it's hard to believe that I wouldn't have noticed the flat tire before that day.

What's even weirder is that I had almost the same thing happen about a week ago on my road bike! In that case I actually heard the air come out just after going over a bump and immediately thought "pinch flat", but again the tube held air when I reinflated it. However, I had noticed that the center core on the Presta valve appeared to be slightly bent and it had been a bit touchy when adding air, so I put it down to a faulty valve.

Anyway, I'm not sure if it's worth pursuing finding the assumed tiny puncture in the old Vado tube. Nothing was obvious on the inside of the tire, and I completed my long ride with no issues. Anyone have experience in this regard?
Somebody’s letting all your air out!🤓
 

Brendon@TBSM

Well-Known Member
I was getting set to do a 50-mile ride on my Vado 4.0 this week, packed my lunch in my bag, installed water bottles, etc., but when I went to move the bike to the center of the garage to air up the tires, the rear tire was flat -- and I mean pancake flat. Aargh! At least it happened at home where I could hoist up the rear of the bike into the clamp on my stand and easily remove the rear wheel. I have to say that it was the easiest tire fix I think I've ever had: I used a lever just to get the first few inches of bead over and then the tire pretty much just fell off the rim. Putting things back together was very easy by hand and it wasn't even hard on my thumbs to get the last part of the bead in place, plus I like it when I hear that "pop" sound as the bead seats properly all the way around.

The "mystery" part is that, even though the old tube came out as flat as a new tube from the box, when I aired it up to find the leak I couldn't find anything and two days later the inflated tube is still holding air hanging in the garage! It had been over a week since I'd previously ridden it, but since I walk by it several times a day, it's hard to believe that I wouldn't have noticed the flat tire before that day.

What's even weirder is that I had almost the same thing happen about a week ago on my road bike! In that case I actually heard the air come out just after going over a bump and immediately thought "pinch flat", but again the tube held air when I reinflated it. However, I had noticed that the center core on the Presta valve appeared to be slightly bent and it had been a bit touchy when adding air, so I put it down to a faulty valve.

Anyway, I'm not sure if it's worth pursuing finding the assumed tiny puncture in the old Vado tube. Nothing was obvious on the inside of the tire, and I completed my long ride with no issues. Anyone have experience in this regard?
Sometimes you get those "phantom" flats that just don't have a clear answer as to why they happened. Out here in Oregon there's lots of blackberry bushes and those little thorns can work their way into the tread and poke the tube ever so slightly. The thorn will make a super tiny hole that only opens when the tire is higher in pressure, releasing air from the hole then after it deflates to a certain amount the hole closes up again. No idea if that's what happened but it's pretty common out here.

I usually just run the Tannus Armour inserts with a smaller tube and don't worry about it.
 

rochrunner

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
Rochester Hills
Sometimes you get those "phantom" flats that just don't have a clear answer as to why they happened. Out here in Oregon there's lots of blackberry bushes and those little thorns can work their way into the tread and poke the tube ever so slightly. The thorn will make a super tiny hole that only opens when the tire is higher in pressure, releasing air from the hole then after it deflates to a certain amount the hole closes up again. No idea if that's what happened but it's pretty common out here.

I usually just run the Tannus Armour inserts with a smaller tube and don't worry about it.
Thanks. Before these two incidents, I had actually gone several years and 1000s of miles without a flat on any of my three bikes. I agree that it might show up at a higher pressure -- inflated outside a tire it has less than 10psi -- but it had gone completely flat when I first discovered it. I've had lots seemingly slower leaks that showed up easily.
 

Dallant

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
I was getting set to do a 50-mile ride on my Vado 4.0 this week, packed my lunch in my bag, installed water bottles, etc., but when I went to move the bike to the center of the garage to air up the tires, the rear tire was flat -- and I mean pancake flat. Aargh! At least it happened at home where I could hoist up the rear of the bike into the clamp on my stand and easily remove the rear wheel. I have to say that it was the easiest tire fix I think I've ever had: I used a lever just to get the first few inches of bead over and then the tire pretty much just fell off the rim. Putting things back together was very easy by hand and it wasn't even hard on my thumbs to get the last part of the bead in place, plus I like it when I hear that "pop" sound as the bead seats properly all the way around.

The "mystery" part is that, even though the old tube came out as flat as a new tube from the box, when I aired it up to find the leak I couldn't find anything and two days later the inflated tube is still holding air hanging in the garage! It had been over a week since I'd previously ridden it, but since I walk by it several times a day, it's hard to believe that I wouldn't have noticed the flat tire before that day.

What's even weirder is that I had almost the same thing happen about a week ago on my road bike! In that case I actually heard the air come out just after going over a bump and immediately thought "pinch flat", but again the tube held air when I reinflated it. However, I had noticed that the center core on the Presta valve appeared to be slightly bent and it had been a bit touchy when adding air, so I put it down to a faulty valve.

Anyway, I'm not sure if it's worth pursuing finding the assumed tiny puncture in the old Vado tube. Nothing was obvious on the inside of the tire, and I completed my long ride with no issues. Anyone have experience in this regard?
My first flat of my rear Schwalbe G-One was a mystery to me and the bike shop that fixed it.
 

fooferdoggie

Well-Known Member
I had two flats on our tandem one in back one front. the tires were worn. first time I found I bought a pump that only worked for Presta same with the co2 but we were only a mile away so pushed the bike. change the tube in the mooring to only find the tube sealed. the front had a slow leak and in the morning it was sealed.dI guess the stands worked it just took a flat (G)
 

rochrunner

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
Rochester Hills
Given my recent experiences, maybe the next time I have a flat on the road I'll just reinflate it and see if it at least gets me home where it's way easier to replace the tube that I'll no longer trust.
 

Nxkharra

Well-Known Member
Given my recent experiences, maybe the next time I have a flat on the road I'll just reinflate it and see if it at least gets me home where it's way easier to replace the tube that I'll no longer trust.
This might not have been flat and valve malfunction where all the air gets out.
flats usually don’t make the tube flat as pancake.
I have had this also.
 

rochrunner

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
Rochester Hills
This might not have been flat and valve malfunction where all the air gets out.
flats usually don’t make the tube flat as pancake.
I have had this also.
That was definitely the case on the earlier flat. Either way, for the price of a new tube I'm not likely to trust one that's already let me down! 😏
 

Allan47.7339

Active Member
Could have been a little grit in the valve and using a hand pump sometimes bends the valve core stem during pumping. I sometimes get very slow leaks from the very fine radial wires in car and truck tires. They get stuck in the tire, are about the size of a hair and barely protrude through the tire and can make very hard to find leaks. I usually find it by inflating the tube and feel the escaping air with my lips (not touching) or sometimes water in a sink. Since you always line up the valve stem with the label on the tire it's easy to locate the spot on the tire with the intrusion. Some people use a cotton ball to swipe the inside of the tire and look for captured strands to spot the culprit.
 

rochrunner

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
Rochester Hills
Could have been a little grit in the valve and using a hand pump sometimes bends the valve core stem during pumping. I sometimes get very slow leaks from the very fine radial wires in car and truck tires. They get stuck in the tire, are about the size of a hair and barely protrude through the tire and can make very hard to find leaks. I usually find it by inflating the tube and feel the escaping air with my lips (not touching) or sometimes water in a sink. Since you always line up the valve stem with the label on the tire it's easy to locate the spot on the tire with the intrusion. Some people use a cotton ball to swipe the inside of the tire and look for captured strands to spot the culprit.
Good tips. Unfortunately, with the tube out of the tire there is no air escaping at all and it's still holding it almost a week later! I'll have to remember the cotton ball tip. Since I was in a hurry to get on with my ride, after not finding an obvious puncture I just checked the inside of the tire by hand in the usual way and mounted it back with a new tube. So far, so good!
 

Stefan Mikes

Well-Known Member
Region
Europe
City
Brwinów (PL)
Doug, I might guess what has happened:

Presta valves sometimes get slightly torn from the rubber base of inner tube. That is, a small crack might appear near to the valve base. In one position, the crack is sealed. If the valve is moved (upset) a little, the crack opens and lets the air out very fast.

I had a similar situation on my Lovelec. I could ride the e-bike but when I was trying to reinflate the tyre on a ride stop, the pump was not increasing pressure at all but the air was leaving the tube with loud hissing. At home, I removed the tyre and the tube. Inflated the latter a little bit. Nothing wrong. Installed the tube and tyre again. And again, I could not inflate the tube.

I removed the tyre and the tube one more time. This time, I tried to inflate the inner tube like a balloon, without the tyre. And... suddenly the crack in the tube close to the valve opened with loud hissing!

Probably that.
 

GrayFox

Member
I got a 'flat' once because at the time I was using 'Dust Covers' over my presta valves.

I inflated the tire before a ride and forgot to screw down the presta valve screw. When I screwed on the
dust covers it pressed down the presta stem. I only got a block or so before I noticed that I had a flat tire...

I took the tire to my lbs and they told me that the tube did NOT have a leak. That is when it dawned on me
what I had done 😳

I also have had a presta value become separated from the tube ( after a thrilling 45 mph down hill run...).
 

Dallant

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
I had a nice ride on my new Rail yesterday and was hearing a raspy sound from the rear and assumed it was the brake rotor. Took it into my Trek guy today (who is a dedicated mountain biker) and he went through it and found that the guys who assembled the Rail had clearly not torqued the calipers or rotors properly. He retorqued (tightened) all the bolts properly and the rears were silent but the front still made a light noise when turning sharply. Charged me a twenty…next time I’ll do it myself.
 
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Dallant

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
I got a 'flat' once because at the time I was using 'Dust Covers' over my presta valves.

I inflated the tire before a ride and forgot to screw down the presta valve screw. When I screwed on the
dust covers it pressed down the presta stem. I only got a block or so before I noticed that I had a flat tire...


I took the tire to my lbs and they told me that the tube did NOT have a leak. That is when it dawned on me
what I had done 😳
Now that’s a bit of a senior moment!😉
 

Stefan Mikes

Well-Known Member
Region
Europe
City
Brwinów (PL)
Just curious - did anybody ever recall having these problems when bikes had Schrader valves? Maybe that will be a good upgrade for me. I hate Presta valves.
The problem is the rim is made specifically either for Presta or Schrader ones. You cannot swap the inner tubes freely (Schrader valves are of bigger diameter than Presta; you cannot freely drill a wider hole, or you jeopardize structural strength of an expensive wheel).

The issue with Presta valves I described before only manifests itself when two conditions are met at the same time:
  • The valve can move freely in the rim hole (is not fastened with a nut: typical for road and mountain bikes), and
  • The pump has no flexible hose.
With these two conditions met, the valve moves sideways and can tear its rubber base.

Don't be afraid Voltman: I looked at the Presta valves in my brand new Vado SL. The valves there are short and rock-solid fastened to the rim!
 

VoltMan99

Well-Known Member
Region
Asia
City
Tokyo
Don't be afraid Voltman: I looked at the Presta valves in my brand new Vado SL. The valves there are short and rock-solid fastened to the rim!
Yes, they look good in the pictures I see but they’re still Presta and I’m wanting the ease of a Schrader valve for inflation. I’ll probably just get a Presta -> Schrader adapter to fix that, however the underlying valve is still of a French design 😏.