Fixing up 2004 Electric Bike - Charger!

RunForTheHills

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
It could be overheating. Many motors have a temperature sensor to allow the controller to shutdown the motor and prevent damage if it gets too warm.
 

hoboin

Active Member
Region
USA
It could be overheating. Many motors have a temperature sensor to allow the controller to shutdown the motor and prevent damage if it gets too warm.
That makes sense and is my thoughts. I tried deregulating it on my day off and it accelerated the overheating so I'm not sure I can over regulate in the summer with the bike it seems
 

hoboin

Active Member
Region
USA
The bike isn't doing too good. Maybe it's overheating due to extreme heat, i sent an email to the contact who sells these still. This morning it turned off on my way to work, i left later than i normally do and it was pretty hot but it shut off after a bump in the road. And coming home it shut off pretty early.

I think it's time to look for a replacement that will get me to work and home reliably and use the Charger as a backup or to store bike.

I have noticed that almost all new electric bike's have the deraillers and not internal hub gears. I really like that about the Charger, does anyone know of any electric bike's that are under $3000 that have IHG?

My budget is $2000 and max i would want to do is $2500 or $2800 is my credit limit on the card i would use. I haven't really been looking at Bike's seriously but the Aventon Level Commuter seemed pretty good. Main thing i need is very tall friendly and powerful enough for these giant hills around where i live. I would probably be using this 4 to 5 times a week to commute to work for about a year is the plan, round trip is 16 miles with about 4 miles on road with cars and the rest on major bike paths.

I am going to borrow a car for a few days while i try to figure out whats up with the Charger or look for a replacment.
 

RunForTheHills

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
The motor cutting out going over a bump is an indication of a loose connector or wire. Shutting off going up a long hill might be overheating. I wouldn't give up on the bike just yet.

IGH's are great, but derailleurs work just fine. I have some IGH bikes, but my favorite bikes have derailleurs. They are my favorites because of the way they fit and feel while riding them. The main advantage of an IGH is that you can shift gears while you are not moving. Since you are on such a tight budget, it would be a mistake to limit your choices to just IGH bikes. Start with a list of features you want on the bike and prioritize them. Battery size, weight, bike geometry/seating position, back rack for your milk crate or panniers, front suspension, etc.

Since you have experience working on the bike now, DIY is also an option. You could pick up a used IGH bike from Craigslist and put a BBS02 or TSDZ2 mid-drive on it. I think @PedalUma uses the TSDZ2 kits and they have the advantage of a torque sensor. I don't have any personal experience with mid-drive kits, but I understand that they are very easy to install.
 

PedalUma

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
The motor cutting out going over a bump is an indication of a loose connector or wire. Shutting off going up a long hill might be overheating. I wouldn't give up on the bike just yet.

IGH's are great, but derailleurs work just fine. I have some IGH bikes, but my favorite bikes have derailleurs. They are my favorites because of the way they fit and feel while riding them. The main advantage of an IGH is that you can shift gears while you are not moving. Since you are on such a tight budget, it would be a mistake to limit your choices to just IGH bikes. Start with a list of features you want on the bike and prioritize them. Battery size, weight, bike geometry/seating position, back rack for your milk crate or panniers, front suspension, etc.

Since you have experience working on the bike now, DIY is also an option. You could pick up a used IGH bike from Craigslist and put a BBS02 or TSDZ2 mid-drive on it. I think @PedalUma uses the TSDZ2 kits and they have the advantage of a torque sensor. I don't have any personal experience with mid-drive kits, but I understand that they are very easy to install.
Around the SF Bay you can pick up a good used IGH town bike for $300-$400. I have done many Public Bikes IGH conversions. I pop on a beefy chain and drop the rear cog to 16-t. Upgrading the brake pads to longer ones is a good idea with a motor.
 

hoboin

Active Member
Region
USA
I also got a flat tire on the way home last night, i was able to pump it up to 30 psi but not past that but was close enough to make it home safely. Now the tire is deflated but amazingly i just got the car to borrow. So i will fix the tire, open up the housing and check the cable for the sensor and wait for the email from sam about the over heating. Maybe i am lucky and it will be an easy fix, let's see!

As for IGH, i will certianly not demand it on my next bike but it's just a feature i would like. I will put together my wish lists and make a post in the forum area for guidance on that, thanks. DIY option i will consider for sure.
 

hoboin

Active Member
Region
USA
I just opened it up to look at the where the speed censor plugs in and to me it looks like it's very well connected. It's very tough to put my hands there and disconnect and reconnect it.

PXL_20210707_210844105.jpg


Here is the port for the light.
PXL_20210707_210705787.jpg


Here is another shot of the receiver. From 1997 lol. Anyone know what the rd1 and rd2 is for?
PXL_20210707_210818249.jpg
 

hoboin

Active Member
Region
USA
Or....maybe a museum will be interested in your Charger....jest sayin.
Would be a shame to give up on it. If that is where it belongs, so be it. But I will try to save it as best I can. I rode almost 1000 miles on it this summer, in the morning on my 8 mile commute it was very good and this bad boy changed my life in so many great ways, why not keep it alive?
 

RunForTheHills

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
I would look at all the connectors, not just the speed sensor. Particularly the battery wires. It could also be a cold solder joint or broken trace on a pcb that is momentarily getting disconnected when you hit a bump.
 

john peck

Well-Known Member
Would be a shame to give up on it. If that is where it belongs, so be it. But I will try to save it as best I can. I rode almost 1000 miles on it this summer, in the morning on my 8 mile commute it was very good and this bad boy changed my life in so many great ways, why not keep it alive?
Sry, I wasn´t aware it was that operational; any ride is better that no ride. I´ve had my share of rescue bikes too.
Not that much luck with a Lee Iaccoca ebike. I try not to be too sentimental about all the bikes I´ve had,( a lot).
 

hoboin

Active Member
Region
USA
i heard from the guy that sells them, he thinks that, based on the error code that it was given, that the batteries are probably the problem. He is suggesting that the ones i bought off of amazon were not ideal for this bike, here is what he said:
Shop manual says battery voltage gets too low,
if the system turns off after the stby and 3 blinks. Often people buy
Internet batteries that are crap. Not designed for continuous
discharge, but rather occasional back-up. They work but not for long as
the plates warp eventually. Most outlets don't rotate stock properly
and never balance pairs so their equal in capacity.

If it's batteries, we have good ones for $110 plus 20 shipping (set).
Lithium including charger for $275 plus 20 ship.

I am considering buying his batteries and maybe even the additional price for the included charger to have as backup.
 

RunForTheHills

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
The lithium batteries he is selling probably need a different charger than the SLA batteries, so that is why he is including a charger. The lithium batteries should be lighter and have a longer range. If you have a multimeter, you can check the voltage on the battery when the symptoms happen.
 

hoboin

Active Member
Region
USA
I purchased 2 lithium batteries that are linked on the first page of this thread, and i was able to hook it up to the charger without needing to do anything else. I will think about all of this and look into the battery case tomorrow or this weekend, but most likely i will atleast buy the batteries from him. Going to put together a thread on buying a new bike shortly.
 

hoboin

Active Member
Region
USA
He gave me the info on it. So i just have to decide on if i want to spend $130 for the Lead Acid or $295 for Lithium. He also explained the difference between the 2 in the 2nd quote. Interesting note about the temperature turning off the bike when it's too hot. He also gave prices on new bikes if anyone is interested, he still sells them. Also i found out it's 350w motor not 500w, but it may peak to 500.

Looks like someone bought lithium batteries for the bike not
understanding lithium chemistry requires at least 15 Amp hours of
capacity to handle 375 Watts continuous power (or momentary 1.5 HP).
Cells deteriorate quickly if battery doesn't have adequate capacity.
Lithium iron phosphate is the best type but generally cannot handle more
than 1C discharge (15 Amps for 15 Amp hour size). Watts = Volts x Amps
(390 = 26 x 15)

Also, some lithium battery venders claim their batteries can be charged
with lead acid chargers. That's true to a point, but since the Charger
bike battery charger only charges up to 27V or so, compared with lithium
that requires about 29V...you don't get full charge and the batteries
don't last well (both run time and charge-recharge cycles).

Prices I quoted were for cells only (lead acid), or cells and special
charger for the lithium. No extra packs other than for new bike
warranty purposes.

New bikes are now $700 with lead acid or $950 with lithium. Shipping is
about $120 to the East Coast now.

Lead acid weight of 12Ah size is 23 lbs. Lithium battery weight is less
than 10 lbs.

Advantage of LFP battery:
1. weight
2. 4 times number of charge-discharge cycles compared with lead acid
(2500 vs 10000) when discharging to automatic low voltage cut-off. Many
more cycles if not discharged completely. For example, lead acid can
get many years of cycles if only discharged 10 to 30 percent instead of
80 percent (so long as they're kept charged and not abused in ultra cold
or hot temperatures). Lithium also lasts longer if not discharged as
deeply, and can handle being discharged with no problem of sulfation,
which kills batteries.
3. Higher 26V vs. 24V for lead acid. It stays at 26 whereas lead acid
starts sloping down so that at halfway discharge you're at 22, then on
down to 21 when there's a cut off.

Disadvantage of LFP battery:
1. Battery meter does not work since lead acid has a sloping curve
discharge and lithium stays at high voltage until the very end then
drops quickly. Also, for some reason some power packs show a blinking
standby light when using lithium. It can be rectified by taping over
the light. We don't know why this happens. My own bike has done this
since lithium was put in 6 years ago, so taped over the light.

NOTE ON TEMPERATURE. In these high temp days the thermister will cut
power to protect motor from overheating. I cannot use my bike at the
Central Valley town where we warehouse these days. Once thermometer
reaches 95 or so, system could cut off on you.

Not sure which way to go honestly. I have a feeling i will just bite the bullet and pay for the $300 for the lithium. I feel like it will be an awesome backup bike for me, since i used it for a full month and 800 miles with very few problems
 

hoboin

Active Member
Region
USA
Also we looked inside the battery case to see what was wrong, and that is when i took a picture of the current batteries and sent them to Sam, the guy who currently sells the bike and that is how i got that info. I am hopeful that the new battery i decide on getting will keep it going. It appears though that it can have problems in high temps though.
 

RunForTheHills

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
I don't disagree with anything he wrote. Yes, it seems even with the battery you may still have an overheating problem. However, the thermister is there to protect the motor and prevent permanent damage if it gets too hot. That is a good thing and not all motors have that feature. For example, the TSDZ2 kit does not. However, there is a mod for it with shareware firmware to add a thermister.
 

hoboin

Active Member
Region
USA
I am going to go with the Lithium Batteries, the price is tough but i think it's best long run for the bike. Thanks.
 

hoboin

Active Member
Region
USA
I am trying to fix the tire today. It went flat and couldn't be pumped up past 20 psi the day it went flat. Next morning completely flat but I don't see a puncture, I do see these signs of wear. Is the tire done? I'm looking at the intertube, just pumped it up outside of the tire and it's not losing air so maybe air leaking out of the sidewall where that rubbing stripping ??

I have never had to replace an intertube before so my first.
PXL_20210710_220710374.jpg

PXL_20210710_220517526.jpg
 

RunForTheHills

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
The tire is not worn out and has a lot of miles left on it. You would probably benefit from a different tread pattern though. Those knobbies aren't great for pavement. The inner tubes may have decayed from sitting in your boss' garage for 15 years. Inner tubes are cheap and if you can't find a nail, thorn, or piece of glass in the tire, just replace the tube. That rim strip looks a bit old and cracked. You could buy some new rim tape and replace that too.